54 comments on “Well, umm, yes

  1. Having the fastest electric car charger is like boasting about the size of your Betamax video collection.

    I can fully recharge my car in about 60 seconds from any point in a network of special charging stations found in every part of the country and at every major supermarket, and then drive for about 500 miles before needing to repeat the process.

    It’s called diesel and it works.

  2. Interesting, but not exactly practical, despite the marketing hype…

    It’s a 450kW charger, which, as the review says, “would fry the batteries of any existing electric car”, and even then it only added 62 miles to the range of their test vehicle after 3 minutes of charging. I can add in excess of 650 miles of range to my diesel car in about 2 minutes of filling.

    Add to that the massive infrastructure upgrade that’s going to be needed to have multiple 400+kW charging points, plus of course the need to more than double the capacity of the standard domestic supply in order to slowly charge vehicles at home… And the extra generation capacity needed, and the upgrade to the National Grid, etc etc etc…

    All by 2030? 🙂

  3. Baron – So the enormous cost is a challenge (basically rebuilding the entire National Grid), but also physical space.

    A major arterial route motorway station like Forton Services has a lot of car parking spaces, but not a lot of space to add hundreds of charging points and the infrastructure to support those charging points and keep people occupied while they wait X number of hours to recharge their cars.

    Which we’d need if we’re going to keep traffic moving at similar levels to today.

    Unless the plan is to reduce the plebs to 19th century levels of mobility (Narrator: It is.), which would be a greater act of economic self-harm than 43,447 No Deal Brexits according to the most pessimistic doomcasts from impartial globalist funny money merchants such as Mark Carney.

    So the story is, it’s literally impossible to leave the Customs Union because of the economy, but trillions of pounds of unfunded liabilities imposed on us by the Climate Change Act and similar nonsense is A-OK because otherwise we might have nicer summers.

    Ever get the feeling that something’s fucky with our so-called elites? Charles I only insisted on the Divine Right of Kings, and we chopped the poor, brave fool’s head off. What are we to make of rulers who deliberately want to make us carbon serfs?

  4. “It’s called diesel and it works.”

    I like to call it “stored solar” because a) that’s what it is; and b) doing so seems to annoy greenies.

    “Unless the plan is to reduce the plebs to 19th century levels of mobility…”

    Perhaps they think the 19th century will be a great advance for the types they intend to import.

  5. @Steve

    It’s difficult to see how this is all supposed to work without the advent of robocars available for hire so readily that people give up having a car at home, plus a gamble on the rise in telecommuting and people being prepared to accept multimodal transport for journeys over 100 miles or so (robocar only taking you and your holiday luggage as far as the railway station and fingers crossed Dr Beeching didn’t get there first). Unless there’s supposed to be some miraculous development with both battery storage and the electricity network, I can’t imagine what else the powers that be have in mind.

    Also odd that they don’t seem to be in a huge rush to do anything practical about it, especially on the infrastructure side where a decade or more of planning time is hardly unheard of. Are we even on track to make enough electricity in 2040 without an electric car revolution, let alone with one, given the nuclear mess?

    I wonder if this is one of those “no point rearming in the early 1930s, you’d only end up with masses of obsolete biplanes” problems – if so, what’s the eco-saving version of the Spitfire that’s supposedly round the corner? – or if there is simply some collective lack of belief / joined-up thinking / urgency at the top of this country and others. We are certainly being sold a version of the future that authorities are keener to make pronouncements about the benefits of than to make concrete plans to deal with the costs and difficulties.

  6. On topic, “trusted reviews” is a great name for a website. Wish I’d thought of it myself. Looks authoritative yet the declaration of trust is entirely self-certified – genius! And yet for some reason I wish I could put my finger on, it smells sounder than “trustednews.com” which reeks of fake news pulling a Mandy Rice-Davies.

  7. Imagine the cabling required to be able to support a ‘refuelling’ station with 20 charging points all delivering 400kW simultaneously…

  8. @MyBurningEars

    > how this is all supposed to work without the advent of robocars available for hire so readily that people give up having a car at home

    ROFL, imagine getting one on Sunday morning. One hopes someone would’ve cleaned out Saturday nights puke, piss and drunks…

  9. Steve,

    “Having the fastest electric car charger is like boasting about the size of your Betamax video collection.”

    I feel a bit like Sterling Archer talking about airships.

    “Rigid airships combine the pampering of a cruise ship with the speed of…”
    “Some other slightly faster ship? Uh, hello, airplanes? Yeah, it’s blimps. You win”

    It’s new tech (so expect a load of unforseen problems), that costs more, has shorter range, doesn’t go any faster and looks like ass. Seriously, why spend £35K on a BMW that looks like a Kia? Or those Hyundai-looking Teslas. Why spend $50K for a car that isn’t a fanny magnet?

  10. Before BMW starts putting an extra 4 triple A batteries under the bonnets of their cars, they may wish to do something about having indicators that actually work! When was the last time anyone saw indications from a BMW showing which way it was going to turn at a junction, or which road it was going to take on a roundabout? And as for indicating when pulling out of a parking space, forget it.

  11. @Penseivat

    > Before BMW starts putting an extra 4 triple A batteries under the bonnets of their cars

    Saturday Night Live (2016 IIRC) did a sketch on a Mercedes powered by thousands of AA batteries. I’ve tried to find a working link for it and so far, no such luck.

  12. Recharging car batteries will be such fun for those hundreds of thousands in cities who park on the street……. if you can’t get a car space outside your house, tough. No charge-up. If you can, the tinks and scallies will have the copper away in a heartbeat. No charge-up. If you have to run a good many metres of cable to reach your car, just lifting it would be a challenge, let alone affording it.

    Plus the report on the BMW / Porsche system I saw the other day indicated that the cable is liquid-cooled but at 430kW I’m not surprised.

    ROFL.

    @penseivat: Chapeau! Audis, too.

  13. “Imagine the cabling required to be able to support a ‘refuelling’ station with 20 charging points all delivering 400kW simultaneously…”

    You wouldn’t need much cabling, just a small power station on the spot. Indeed, one so small that all it would need is not even a gas turbine – a marine diesel engine might do.

  14. Are these the people who expect to be able to charge their car from a 2A street lamp wired up with 80-year-old bell wire?

  15. London is currently filling up pavements with these montrous idols to Gaia. Bad luck if you are blind or partially sighted – the Progressive State who said they cared about you now had a new hobby and frankly you can fuck off and trip over this new useless street furniture – they don’t give a fuck, and they don’t give a fuck because they care.

  16. ” just a small power station on the spot. Indeed, one so small that all it would need is not even a gas turbine – a marine diesel engine might do.”

    Or you could put a small diesel (or even petrol) engine in each of the vehicles & charge the batteries directly. Or even connect the engine direct to the wheels with some sort of gearbox & dispense with the batteries altogether. It’s a wonder no-one’s thought of that…

  17. BiS

    However, it is certainly easier to control emissions with a stationary engine. So a fleet of efficient-size diesels with chargers and thingies which collect particulate emissions (“soot”) and unwanted byproducts (CO2) from their exhausts might be a Good Thing. Or even stationary hydrogen motors, for removal of the soot n stuff. Much easier than carting the whole gubbins around all the time.

  18. Don’t forget the loons who propose Scalextrix style wireless charging on motorways.

    450kW doesn’t even come close to the Mega or Giga watts M1 would require. Cables wouldn’t do the job, it’d need bus-bars entire length of M1

  19. Multiple charging points run at the same time?
    Surely that’s a minor problem.

    Half hour or so to get a decent level of charge – my shopping takes longer than that at the supermarket.
    If I stop at motorway services for a KFC then figure at least half hour – its 10 minutes to get to the restaurant never mind back.

    Several times I have seen companies with an electric charging point and a car or two being charged.

    My petrol car can take a full tank of fuel and last about a month – just takes 10 minutes to fill the thing.

  20. To get 450 Kva you need rather more than a simple marine generator, you need something about the size of a small container. The sort that has a price tag marked “POA”.

  21. I can’t be arsed going through the Conts comment hoops as I’m on the iPad and already signed in to the site. I want to support you and have turned off my adblocker for that site, but It really is an imposition too far.

    So here’s my comment on the Severn toll article:

    “A bit of devil’s advocacy….

    It’s axiomatic around these parts that reducing a tariff/tax increases economic activity. That increased economic activity will both increase general and local taxes as well as spread its beneficial tentacles far and wide. Given the network effects of the economy those tax payers in Kent may well be benefiting in some small way that is greater than their contribution to maintenance costs.

    Shouldn’t we be analysing the cost benefit analysis that was carried out before this decision was made rather than rushing to hasty neoliberal conclusions?

    (For the benefit of doubt, that reference to a CBA was tongue in cheek)”

  22. @BiT

    One has to also consider the round trip efficiency question. Reducing nasty emissions per kwh by 50% at the point of generation, then losing 50% of the electricity produced in transmission, battery cycle losses etc leaves one no better off that one started…

  23. Parole

    Efficiency is one thing, polluting side effects another.

    In an ideal world, nonpollution, 100 percent efficiency.

    In a real world, no pollutants and a slightly reduced overall efficiency doesn’t sound too bad

  24. ‘In a real world, no pollutants and a slightly reduced overall efficiency doesn’t sound too bad’

    No pollutants? Sucka.

  25. Jaguar now has an electric car. It costs two and a half times as much as the roughly equivalent petrol version. What a win all round. Signalling status and virtue at the same time. Bravo Jaguar.

  26. @BiT

    My point is that you don’t necessarily get less pollution even if the power source burns cleaner, because the cycle losses requires quite a bit more electricity to be generated than is actually required to move the vehicle.

    I seem to recall working out a Tesla only actually does about the equivalent of 40-50mpg if powered from a fossil fuel powerstation, while one can buy a diesel car that size that does 70mpg.

  27. Bored at work today… 450kVA in solar panel would work out to 36000sq ft or there abouts. 3340 sq mtrs for our non imperial folk

  28. Barry Bone–you hope away chum. If you are young you might live long enough to see the AI step up before you die of extreme old age–if you are unlucky enough. As for the batteries–likely never.

  29. I would have thought that it makes sense to electrify the railways before we start worrying about cars. At least we already have the proven technology to do that.

  30. @Martin, December 16, 2018 at 8:28 pm

    You’re assuming everyone wants to go shopping or eat a meal everytime they need to “refuel” their vehicle.

    I certainly don’t. Even on regular Edi-Ldn/Ldn-Edi drive, it was splash & dash on the one* refuel.

    As others have pointed out, there isn’t space/infrastructure for all to park up for 30-60mins every 100-200 miles.

    * if I’d driven slower – 65/70 vs 80/85 – could have done it non-stop, but over 1 hour longer

  31. Pcar,

    “You’re assuming everyone wants to go shopping or eat a meal everytime they need to “refuel” their vehicle.

    I certainly don’t. Even on regular Edi-Ldn/Ldn-Edi drive, it was splash & dash on the one* refuel.”

    It’s also a major ballache that adds complexity to people’s lives.

    I had to see someone in the next town today. About 30 minute drive. I always give myself 40 minutes. When I left home, I realised I had a low tank. OK, so I fill up. Takes about 5 minutes and I’m on my way.

    Electric cars require extra discipline. Extra ballache on life. You get home from the pub and forget to plug in the car? You’re going to be late for work tomorrow.

    The real revolution in transport is the one that’s already started, which is that people are going to travel less, work from home. You’ll still want a car for family trips and going to the zoo, but that’s all. A lot of people will just ditch cars for ubers and renting when they need one for a long journey. I drive an old beater because sometimes, I’m commuting by train for 6 months. My car sits on the drive doing nothing. When it goes, I’ll be tempted to just use Uber everywhere.

  32. Electric cars aren’t for everyone and, at the moment, it is difficult to see how they will totally replace fossil fuels (maybe with battery swaps, but then people like “owning” their battery).

    For me I’m more than happy with my Tesla; I didn’t buy it for fuel savings or environmentally friendly reasons – I bought it because I wanted a big car that was fun and different. Had it for 18 months now and struggle to find a bad word to say about it. I love the fact that I no longer spend time at petrol stations as the car is fully fueled every morning (saves me a fortune in coffees and pies, as well as fuel!).

    With a 380km range (if I drive like a grandma, 320km if I drive like I enjoy being behind the wheel) it does everything that I need it to do. I’ve had to supercharge a few times, but the free coffee and TimTams make up for the 20/30 minute wait while I top up (and barely scratch the savings in total “filling up time” over the course of a year).

    When it came to buying another car last year my wife test drove a number of smaller cars but, having experienced electric, couldn’t bring herself to buying an ICE car again – so she got a BMW i3.

    Electric works well for us; but not everyone is in the same position as we are in (off-street parking, good income, mostly city based driving).

    Having said that I haven’t bought it for environmental reasons I do have to say that I am pleased to not be adding significant amounts to in city pollution as I drive in behind some stinking, dirty, fume belching, diesel bus!

  33. Oh, and the 320km range went down a bit further when I was out on a “cruise” with the Auckland Ferrari owners club … 100% to 8% gave me 240km of total range. But I may have been trying to find top speed and keeping up with Italy’s finest on winding roads takes a lot out of the right foot!

  34. “Rail transport is less than 2% of total transport energy consumption in the UK. So basically a rounding error.”

    It still makes sense to me to do it rather than spending stupid amounts of money on solutions that don’t work. Non solutions to non problems.

    On staying charged. I have been commuting by cycle more this year. Normally I go back to the car once the clocks have gone back but this time I’ve kept going despite the darkness. This has meant that I have had to stay organised with regard to the rechargeable bike lights. The commute takes around an hour and the lights take two or three hours to recharge. I am fortunate to be able to charge them at work, I think that they would make it both ways but I would probably then have to charge them overnight. So far I haven’t screwed up and found myself with no working lights in the morning. I thought that the parallels with what I would have to do with an electric car were interesting.

  35. It still makes sense to me to do it rather than spending stupid amounts of money on solutions that don’t work. Non solutions to non problems.

    Rail electrification is expensive (if you let ‘Notwork Rail’ do it – very expensive) and if the track isn’t intensively used, it could be a very expensive way of reducing emissions.

  36. More expensive than windmills?

    I find it interesting that people who think that CO2 emissions need to be reduced are only interested in solutions that don’t work. It is as if they don’t actually wan’t the problem to be solved. Nuclear power is safe and clean and it works. On large continents internal flights could be replaced by high speed trains. I don’t think that this would be economically viable, but if stupid amounts of public money are going to be thrown away it might as well be on something that would actually works.

  37. @Stonyground, December 18, 2018 at 8:53 am

    Bicycle: lights – I have a set of dynamo lights (front fork mounted) on mine. Rarely use them now as the drag is noticeable, but they are always available if needed.

  38. Dynamo lights, I had those when I was a kid doing my, very rural, paper round. It was like having a head wind all the time and they would go out every time you stopped. Modern rechargeable bike lights are brilliant in every sense but, as mentioned above, you just need to be well organised to use them.

  39. They’re more efficient & less drag these days. I reduced drag further by swapping rear bulb for an led, front is halogen bulb.

    Only noticed the drag going uphill. As on front fork, easy to disengage if drag too much.

    Off when stopped not important – large reflectors F&R.

    Use LED lights now, but dynamo a useful backup so left installed.

  40. Pingback: Our Rulers Are Grossly Deluded About Electric Cars By 2030 | The Continental Telegraph

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