An idle thought

A federal jury in San Francisco found Monsanto’s Roundup herbicide was a substantial factor in causing the cancer of a California man, in a landmark verdict that could affect hundreds of other cases.

The same sort of people who will hail this jury’s wisdom – insist that it is proof perfect that glyphosate kills – will be those who also insist that juries aren’t competent to judge rape cases.

Sigh.

27 comments on “An idle thought

  1. An even idler thought: I understand, though may not necessarily agree with, the concept of institutional racism. What would be the term for a society that struggles to convict on rape cases?

  2. I dunno Tim, the stuff may be safe to drink because we lack the enzyme that makes it toxic to weeds, but it does alter the microbiota in the soil and in our guts and we are only now beginning to understand their roles.

  3. @Bernie G

    “What would be the term for a society that struggles to convict on rape cases?”

    Not exactly a term, but it’s a society that believes in the presumption of innocence and the requirement of proof beyond a reasonable doubt of guilt?

  4. Also the competency to judge whether a country would be better off in or out of a supra-national body?

    Incidentally, on the whole ‘pesticides are killing us all!’ shtick, just bear in mind that one body of people are exposed to far higher concentrations of pesticides than anyone else – farmers and farm workers. And there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that those people suffer cancers at any rate higher than the general population. In fact I think they are lower. Thus unless you believe that handling the neat liquid is somehow safer than the minute parts per billion that are present in foods, you would have to conclude these things are about as safe as you could possibly hope such things to be.

    Its ironic that the people who complain about this sort of stuff are often doing so sat round a table stuffing red wine down their faces as fast as the bottles can be opened…….some risks are more acceptable than others it seems.

  5. @Jim – be careful – you’ll have the homeopaths after you, with that sort of thinking – I am sure in pesticide’s case that the tiny almost non-existent concentrations will *cause* illnesses, whereas bathing in it won’t.

    This explains all:
    http://www.howdoeshomeopathywork.com/

  6. Roundup is one of Man’s greatest inventions.

    This was a witch trial.

    “but it does alter the microbiota in the soil and in our guts and we are only now beginning to understand their roles”

    Bullshit.

  7. But companies are bottomless pits of money that can be plundered without consequences.
    The Government has been doing it for years, so why shouldn’t juries join in the free money?
    Zimbabwe, and all the others, show how well this works. But who is interested in history, nowadays?
    Without Roundup, people are going to get very hungry.

  8. Your main intake of pesticides consists of the pesticides in the cells of the fruit and veg you eat. But they are “natural” pesticides so obvs couldn’t do you the least harm.

    I’ve never looked at the evidence on whether glyphosate is dangerous stuff but I do know that virtually all “green” alarmism is bollocks. So my bet would be that it’s a bum rap.

  9. Without Roundup, people are going to get very hungry.

    Ah, there you have it: The Left’s cure for obesity.

  10. Gamecock: it does alter the microbiota with unknown effects. This is a new field of study made feasible by cheap DNA and RNA sequencing. Signalling up to the brain from the gut is mediated by intestinal flora to what effect no one knows. I wonder not be in a rush to be dogmatic about anything. I am just sorry I’m too old to be part of a very rich new exploration.

  11. What you all seem to forget is that cancer was almost unknown in cave man times, before all these evil industrial processes.

    Everyone died in their 30’s, but that’s just being pedantic.

  12. Reminds me of the Roy Castle case.
    Basically, nice guy suffers, jury wants to show sympathy, lawyers want money, others have an axe to grind.
    And there may be some suspion on recently discovered evidence that glyphosate is harmful is a very long way from “Monsanto were negligent” .

  13. “it does alter the microbiota with unknown effects. This is a new field of study made feasible by cheap DNA and RNA sequencing. Signalling up to the brain from the gut is mediated by intestinal flora to what effect no one knows.”

    Still doesn’t explain why farmers aren’t dropping dead left right and centre from cancers caused by pesticides. Farmers eat the same food everyone else does, but in addition have significant contact with the raw full strength chemicals. And still are fine, relatively speaking.

    And the pesticides we use today are baby stuff compared to what we used to use 30,40,50 years ago. They were some really nasty shit, and in those days there was no PPE either. Spray operatives would be sat on open cabbed tractors spraying all manner of nasty stuff in far too high winds etc. The dosages they must have got were massive. Yet they didn’t all get cancer.

  14. But they are “natural” pesticides so obvs couldn’t do you the least harm.

    Natural = good for you.
    Like natural sugars, like fructose. And natural minerals, like asbestos.
    Erm, hang on.

    @DtP
    He’ll be along soon no doubt .
    If you want a quick fix sooner, I could stand in for him…

    Something something dihydrotestosterone, something something genes, something something racists, something something dark side.

    Hope that helped.

  15. @Jim

    +1

    Exactly what Stuart Agnew MEP (UKIP) frequently points out in EU parl.

    FYI Monsanto is owned by Bayer AG

  16. The fact that the US even has lay juries in highly technical civil cases such as patent infringement baffles me…

    But ho hum…

  17. Cherny Drakon, you forgot:

    Something something group A something group B something something debating society argument techniques something cribbed from wikipedia. I’m a smug clever clogs something something I’m just insinuating you are all morons, transphobes, islamaphobes, homophobes ad nauseam.

  18. FYI Monsanto is owned by Bayer AG.

    A monde which has gone really</email< well for Bayer. See this Twitter thread for a running commentry on one of the most self destructive takeovers de nos jours.

  19. Shares in Bayer are down 37% since this thread began when they completed the $63bn takeover of Monsanto. Bayer’s equity is now worth barely more than that amount. You are watching some of the most value destructive M&A in history in real time

    How does Lloyds merger with HBOS compare?

    RBS and ABN Amro; and sale of Worldpay?

  20. @ Pcar
    How about the acquisition of International Signal & Control by Ferranti which bankrupted Ferranti because the US Government refused to let Ferranti examine “sensitive data” which would have revealed that ISC was fraudulent?
    Lloyds is still afloat, having pumped umpteen £billion into Bank of Scotland (£20 billion in 2009 alone). I think you should refer to the merger of Halifax with BoS as that was the really destructive bit.

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