They’ve missed a bit here

Black and Asian students are more than twice as likely to go to university than their white counterparts, new data has revealed.

In the first survey of its kind research published by the Office for Students (OfS) today analysed each university and college’s student intake, dropout rates, degree attainment and progression to further study or employment for different groups of students over the last five years.

It found that among the nation’s most deprived students, those who were black, Asian and mixed race were far more likely to attend full-time university courses or apprenticeships than their white counterparts in the last five years.

Blacks and Asians are more likely to be second generation immigrants. First generation immigrants often do see education as the route to success for their children. Those tales of Ugandan Asians rocking up with nothing, running the corner shop all hours and then ending up with all kiddies either doctors or accountants – stereotypes usually do have some basis in reality.

So, OK, entirely believable numbers. But there’s something I suspect is being missed. “Black” isn’t really a useful grouping in the UK. The past experiences of Black African and Afro Caribbeans are too different for that. Ad I’d e very surprised indeed if this high uni attendance happened among Afro Cs.

21 comments on “They’ve missed a bit here

  1. “among the nation’s most deprived students,” in the second paragraph, but the headline and first paragraph do not offer that qualifier.

    So who can tell me what the fuck group of students we are looking at? They say ~20% of white students went to uni, but I don’t believe that. It’s surely closer to 50%, if we take otherwise unselected white students. Of “most deprived”, now that’s more credible. But what does “most deprived” mean and what factors in that definition confound with other aspects of their race definitions/

    Since no one ever provides a link to their source data, who knows what the fuck we are looking at. It might, as often, be good research, that is turned into policy-based evidence-making by the media selecting 3 of the 500 endpoints and hiding the report away on some government department’s website.

  2. And lumping together university courses and apprenticeships muddies the numbers still further.

    It’s a pity that Toby Young wasn’t allowed to take up his position on the board of this outfit.

  3. Dropout rates and post-graduation employment would be useful to know.

    And what it ‘most deprived’ means nowadays. All this goes to reinforce the notion (in ‘The Bell Curve’ among other places) that it is poor whites who suffer most from affirmative action. IF not to go to University is to suffer.

  4. Conflating black and asian as if both had done well. In reality it will be the asians doing well and the article not separating them out. Its well known that asians are more intelligent than whites. But by grouping in blacks by the use of the word BAME makes it seem that blacks have done well too. They haven’t.

  5. Its well known that asians are more intelligent than whites

    Blimey. Explains all those Bangladeshi Nobel Prize winners I s’pose.

    But by grouping in blacks by the use of the word BAME makes it seem that blacks have done well too.

    I dunno, there are plenty of black kids at yooni these days. Seem to be mostly African students rather than Windrush descendants tho.

    I reckon the mistake is assuming that footering around in a degree mill = “doing well”. I’d be happy to see the blacks, browns, yellows and even whites doing well, but university is a modern cargo cult.

    I also reckon, but can’t prove, that – in a society where being a university graduate no longer guarantees the ability to read or write well – we’d probably be better off focusing attention and resources on primary school education.

    Because that’s where bright kids can develop a lifelong passion for learning, if they’re lucky enough to have a good teacher and not get ground down by the endless testing and national curriculum inanities.

    How many 2:1 grads would pass an eleven-plus from 1959?

  6. NDReader: +1 on that, my brother worked for five years after school, saving up, then went to uni. Got a better grade than me who went straight at 18, and is earning more as well.

  7. ” A bit of reading comprehension, a bit of arithmetic, a lot of IQ-style questions.”
    As far as I’m concerned that was about 95% of the formal education’s got me through life. The other knowledge I’ve acquired along the way. Most of the secondary curriculum was learnt because it was obligatory & as quickly forgotten. Of no practical use. But mastering the basic skills opens the door to learning anything. And from what I’ve seen of recent output from the education system, that’s the bit it fails on.
    BiG – “They say ~20% of white students went to uni, but I don’t believe that. It’s surely closer to 50%,” Heaven help you if that’s true. 50% of the workforce paper pushing drones. Small wonder there’s been a need for Polish plumbers

  8. Also there is a problem with the definition of black. How do we count those of mixed race? Often they are counted as black, but that is nonsense.

  9. Another problem is whence cometh the disadvantage? One would expect less able people to have poor outcomes relative to the norm, and also to have less able children.
    Unless you believe the fashionable nonsense that we are all born with the same abilities.

  10. @Tim W

    If they’re second generation immigrants of those rocking up with nothing, running the corner shop all hours they’re unlikely to be “deprived”.

    It’s a useless report/study to legitimise more Gov’t interference and meddling

  11. ” A bit of reading comprehension, a bit of arithmetic, a lot of IQ-style questions.”

    That sounds like a neo-liberal plot to brainwash children into supporting Capitalism. Where are the questions demanding they imagine themselves as slaves whipped by ancestors of current Tory Party ministers? What about Climate Change? Given the Bell Curve, aren’t “so-called” IQ-style questions racist anyway?

  12. The reality is before the journalist’s distortion is as follows.
    Among those defined as “deprived” are a group of idle, feckless whites, a group of unintelligent whites, some of whom are decent hard-working guys in low-paid jobs, a group of whites with specific skills whose jobs have disappeared, a comparable set of groups of blacks/other minority ethnics, and a significant number of immigrants who are deprived either because cannot get the jobs for which they are trained because the UK does not recognise their qualifications or they fled while part-qualified or because their language skills were inadequate when they arrived or they were penniless and had to take the first job on offer or …
    Quite probably an overall majority of the latter group’s children will go to university so “among those deprived” more black than white children will go to university. Fifty years ago a higher percentage of the children of poor Jewish refugees than of poor native English went to university for the same reason.
    That’s fine by me!
    Journalists write headlines without understanding what they are talking about.

  13. @ rhoda klapp
    Knowledge of reading, writing, English Grammar, the rules of arithmetic (but not algebra).
    When I took it there was, I think, only one IQ paper and two Arithmetic and two English papers

  14. Pat: Also there is a problem with the definition of black. How do we count those of mixed race? Often they are counted as black, but that is nonsense.

    That “nonsense” works for St. Barry!

  15. “Also there is a problem with the definition of black. How do we count those of mixed race? Often they are counted as black, but that is nonsense.”
    Indeed. My girl would be described as “black” by the UK system. Although I wouldn’t fancy the chances of the describer surviving the experience. She’s virulently racist & despises blacks*. If she self describes herself at all it’s as mulata.#.

    *Not something I’d be willing to argue with her about. She grew up in a S.Americal favella, I didn’t.
    # Majority demographic in that state. Not being mixed race is the minority.

Leave a Reply

Name and email are required. Your email address will not be published.

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.