So, victim hierarchy then

In a letter dated 18 February, seen by the Observer, the society warned the council that the Stop RSE campaign had “promoted material which says the punishment for homosexuality is death. Our research has found that downloadable resources which were available on Stop RSE’s website as recently as last week [since withdrawn] included a book which endorses lashing and killing gay people.” It is understood that the council accepts that the society’s concerns fall within its remit. As a result, it has launched an inquiry, gathering relevant information and judging it against the council’s conduct, performance and ethics standards.

According to the council, if a registrant’s fitness to practise is considered impaired, “it means there are concerns about their conduct, competence, health or character which are serious enough to suggest that the registrant is unfit or unsafe to practise without restriction, or at all”.

A spokesman for the council told the Observer: “We are aware of concerns about Kate Godfrey-Faussett and are looking into what action, if any, we need to take. We have a duty of confidentiality to all parties involved and it would not be appropriate for us to comment further.” Godfrey-Faussett said she had not been informed of the details of the complaint to the council, other than that it had been made by the NSS.

“I have simply tried to warn people of the underlying liberal secular agenda of RSE and the harm that it may cause children – and is, in fact, already causing based on reports I am receiving from parents,” she told the Observer. “It is well known that if you speak out against the secular narrative they will silence you through smear campaigns and getting you struck off professionally.”

NSS chief executive Stephen Evans said efforts to prevent teaching about LGBT people were well coordinated and rooted in bigotry. “Those behind them are undermining legitimate, age-appropriate education which introduces children to issues and people they will inevitably encounter in a healthy, pluralistic society,” he said. “The demand to impose religious conservatism on state schools is unreasonable and must be resisted.”

Islam rather than Leviticus. So, who will win?

54 comments on “So, victim hierarchy then

  1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8qWyxr_evg

    The Christians will be rousted but then the dross of the left have the RoP dilemma. They will throw the LG-etc crew under the bus rather than upset their new best friends and supposed imported vote. But then the marxscum’s absolute hypocrisy and double standards are shouted to the sky. That won’t stop the skunks of the left but it is another brick knocked out of their wall.

  2. LGBT will win, because nobody is going to acknowledge/admit that Islam is actually homophobic. They’ll take the same line as they do with the jihadis: “urepresentative minority”, “conservative extremist”, etc.

  3. The gays are about to find out that the Left now considers them “privileged”.

    Funny old world, innit?

  4. NSS chief executive Stephen Evans said efforts to prevent teaching about LGBT people were well coordinated and rooted in bigotry.

    I mean, maybe, but if we’re going to look at this as superficially as Mr Evans, then it’s worth noting that he’s also a virulent anti-religious bigot and an Islamophobe to boot.

    So maybe insults don’t actually shed much light on why people do what they do?

    which introduces children to issues and people they will inevitably encounter in a healthy, pluralistic society

    But we aren’t a healthy, pluralistic society. We’re a multicultural Airstrip One with a thin white crust of a secular, globalist elite trying desperately to obviate the inevitable consequences of their decision to import hordes of illiterate tribesmen who breed much faster than they do and have no respect for progressive myths.

    Why would we expect the Balkanised Britain to work any better than Yugoslavia? I thought professional fedora-atheists were supposed to be smart.

  5. Campaigner’s views on family life may not be ‘compatible with professional standards and could impair her fitness to practise’

    They happen to be incompatible with the anti-family credo of our current establishment and hence impair her fitness to practise in any profession under their control, which is all of them.

  6. “But we aren’t a healthy, pluralistic society. We’re a multicultural Airstrip One with a thin white crust of a secular, globalist elite trying desperately to obviate the inevitable consequences of their decision to import hordes of illiterate tribesmen who breed much faster than they do and have no respect for progressive myths.”

    Which is exactly why they need a progressive education, and why they’re going to get one!

    Islamic conservatives are no different to Christian conservatives. In their eyes, the problem is the conservatism, not the religion. They believe Islam (what is often called ‘moderate’ Islam) is progressive and tolerant. And that’s the variety of Islam they’re going to insist gets taught. Conservative Islam (what is often called ‘extremist’ Islam) is going to get stamped on. And they’re going to justify it by saying that’s not the true Islam.

    When they say ‘Islam’ they mean progressive Islam. When they protect Islam and protest against ‘Islamophobia’, it’s progressive Islam they’re promoting and protecting. They’re progressives first and foremost, and they’re not stupid. Conservative values have always been the enemy.

  7. I think the left has made a strategic mistake allying itself to Islam.
    Firstly Muslims have issues with everyone they come into contact with, apart from the Left for now, so they alienate other sources of support.
    Secondly the True believers amongst Muslims are rarer than is supposed. A large proportion are going along with it to avoid ostracism or worse, or out of habit.
    Thirdly The true believers will be guided by the Koran and the Hadith, and will therefor not maintain the alliance.

  8. Who wins depends on which side first breaks the other’s will to fight.

    When I say ‘fight’, I mean fight. Actually fight.

  9. “Only proggie islam will be allowed by them” says the Nitwit on iV.

    Who is the “they” Chumpster? Yes white proggie trash can have a word with the suit-wearing manikins like Sad Dick–but they “control” nothing. The British state –as seen on TV –could barely button down two RoP conmen being served with CC judgements and bailiffs. They turned out 50+ of their relatives and it took legions of bluebottles and several hours to finally pin them. Had not the entire thing been under the eye of reality TV the copcowards would have turned their arse on it and run away.

    The RoP is tribal and can turn out folk who will put fists in the faces of coppers trying to enforce the Homo Wars on them. The blues fear that and know that the media will not be on their side either. The scum of the Left know there is far more bang for the buck in the RoP as an agent of Western civilisation-destroying than the LGBT crew. Far more. The Gaykin will be dumped.

    Or –if not–then the left have made yet another YUUGE tactical mistake.

  10. @NiV “Islamic conservatives are no different to Christian conservatives’

    Conservative Christians say homosexuality is a sin and such urges should be resisted.

    Islamic Conservatives say homosexuals should be executed.

    Incy wincy difference.

    To me.

    Obviously not to you.

    I expect you’ll say group A is Group B and I’m a racist or something.

  11. We are soon going to see whether the NiV theory that the way to reform Islam is to import its backward adherents to the West where they will be magically be turned into liberals by exposure to decadent Western morals is going to work or not. Either Muslims are going to be forced to have their children indoctrinated with the alphabet soup or they aren’t. If the former then it proves that the West is serious about imposing its values on Muslims (regardless of whether one actually agrees with those values) or whether it will bend the knee and allow them special treatment.

    My money is on the latter, because thats what they’ve done in every other clash between Muslims and anyone else. Just this time its a bit more existential – either way, one of the Establishment’s top pet groups is going to get deep sixed…….

  12. Not sure why you think that was about LGBTQ – heterosexual buggery was similarly punished under the same act.

  13. “Not sure why you think that was about LGBTQ – heterosexual buggery was similarly punished under the same act.”

    Nitpicking. Individual acts can target multiple groups simultaneously.

    The same can be said of Sharia law. So would you argue that Sharia doesn’t actually outlaw homosexuality either because it outlaws the same acts among heterosexuals?

  14. @NiV “They do now, after a few centuries…”

    So in a couple of centuries Islamic conservatives might be a bit more tolerant so we only have to wait?

    And in the meantime just shrug as gays are thrown off buildings because, you know, Group A and Group B and we’re all racists to suggest otherwise?

    That really is a fucking ridiculous defence of what is happening now. We’re supposed to give Islam a couple of centuries to catch up.

  15. “So in a couple of centuries Islamic conservatives might be a bit more tolerant so we only have to wait?”

    They’ve already been reforming for a couple of centuries, and have progressed a long way from their origins. Western Muslims are a lot more tolerant than Middle Eastern Muslims, who in turn are a lot more tolerant than Muslims several centuries ago.

    “And in the meantime just shrug as gays are thrown off buildings because, you know, Group A and Group B and we’re all racists to suggest otherwise?”

    The Group A Group B Trick isn’t relevant to criticising orthodox Islam for homophobia because homophobia is indeed a required belief in Islam. Other stuff you’ve blamed them for isn’t.

    Orthodox Muslims are homophobic by definition. Non-orthodox so-called Muslims, on the other hand…

    “That really is a fucking ridiculous defence of what is happening now.”

    I’m not defending them. I’m certainly not shrugging! I’m just observing that our own history with regard to gays is not so very different.

  16. Western Muslims are a lot more tolerant than Middle Eastern Muslims,

    Lol. I think the mystery of what happened to Comical Ali has been solved.

  17. “Lol. I think the mystery of what happened to Comical Ali has been solved.”

    No mystery. It’s actually pretty common for Western Muslims going on holiday in the Middle East to fall foul of local decency laws, and get jailed for crimes like holding hands in public. While the courts in Islamic countries make allowances for non-Muslim Westerners, they’re liable to jail Western Muslims who do the same things. British Muslims often don’t even know what the Islamic rules are, let alone abide by them.

  18. “It’s actually pretty common for Western Muslims going on holiday in the Middle East to fall foul of local decency laws, and get jailed for crimes like holding hands in public.”

    Have you any evidence of this or are you just making it up? Its quite common to read about Westerners being arrested in Muslim countries for some infringement of Islamic laws, particularly in the Gulf states which encourage tourism, but I cannot remember ever having seen a case where it was a British Muslim who was so incarcerated.

  19. Heterosexual buggery is not outlawed under Sharia. They’re rather Catholic about this in fact, as long as seminal emission happens where pregnancy might occur all is fair and good. Of course, Sharia is a distributed moral system, you can find mullahs to authorise much, in a manner that a centralised system like Catholicism doesn’t but…

  20. One case? Not exactly overwhelming proof that its ‘common’ for British Muslims in Islamic countries to fall foul of the local laws, is it? I could come up with a number of cases of non-muslim westerners falling foul of Islamic laws abroad, they turn up in the press every year or so. If its that common for Muslims as well you should be able to come up with 3 or 4 pretty easily.

  21. “Heterosexual buggery is not outlawed under Sharia.”

    Crap. Reliance of the Traveller p75.20: “The prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said ‘He who sodomizes a woman is accursed.'” p75.21: “The prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said ‘Whoever has intercourse with a woman during her period, or sodomizes a woman, or who goes to a fortune-teller and believes him, has committed unbelief [A: if he considers any of these permissible].'” In m5.4 it’s described as “absolutely unlawful”.

  22. Ask the Imam seems to disagree. No, no citation but I did once actually look it up, just to see whether the restriction was as in Catholicism and Judaism. As a form of, say, foreplay, entirely acceptable. As a method of conclusion, not.

  23. “Ask the Imam seems to disagree. No, no citation but…”

    Interesting. I’m not saying I disbelieve you – you may well have done. But I did have a quick look and found this:

    http://askimam.org/public/question_detail/37885

    Tawus (may Allah have mercy on him) was asked about a man approaching a woman from behind so he said: “This was something that the people of Lut started. Men started doing that with women first (having sex with women through their behinds) and then they (the men) started doing that (having sex with men through their behinds).”[28]

    Likewise, the well-known scholar and successor [ta’bi], ‘Ata (may Allah have mercy on him) was asked about approaching women (having sex with them) through their backside, and he answered “That is a disbelief, it was but the people of Lut that started that, they came on their women like that (having sex) with them and then men did that with men.” This is an authentic, verified statement of ‘Ata.[29]

    This is called disbelief in hadith as well for two reasons, either for rebuking those who commit this action or it is called kufr for those who consider this action to be permissible.

    It should also be noted that some have fabricated narrations to state that Imam Malik (may Allah have mercy on him) permitted men approaching women in their backside (anal intercourse). However, this view has been falsely attributed to him, as Imam Malik (may Allah have mercy on him) has himself stated.

    Also: “Allah does not look at a man who enters (has sex with) a man or a woman in the behind”.

    They seem quite definite. “it is called kufr [unbelief, apostasy] for those who consider this action to be permissible”.

    And Reliance is generally pretty reliable.

  24. Chaps, my advice: stop rising to the bait.

    He’s got far more time than you do, he’ll always have the last word and he’s prepared to wait centuries’ worth of school girls being minced in order to make his point.

    There’s no arguing with any of that. Ignore him. And his screams, when he’s come for. Or, look on with a glad eye.

  25. I think the left has made a strategic mistake allying itself to Islam.

    ‘Islam’ hasn’t allied itself with The Left. Therein lies the problem.

    What The Left has done (over here, at least) is allied itself with a variety of Muslim activists that claim to represent various Muslim communities. Activists and politicians like Linda Sarsour and Keith Ellison claim to represent a majority of American Muslims, but the fact of the matter is that they don’t. The Left has allied with the like of Sarsour and Ellison because The Left considers them useful.

    Much of this is wrapped up in the inherent racism of liberal white America (The Left). They (The Left) tolerates the (‘Islamic’) hatred of Jews and LGBT because when it boils down to it, they believe when the time comes their innate superiority will allow them to bend ‘Islam’ to their purposes.

    The Left pushes what it imagines to be the values of ‘Islam’ for two reasons: (1) It furthers The Left’s attack on Christianity and Western Values, both of which block the road to Socialist Utopia, and (2) Leftists simply don’t believe that the primitives (in their eyes) who practice Islam (Africans, Asians, Middle Easterners) can fend for themselves… The require – whether they know it or not – the tender mercies of Woke Protection.

  26. As someone who has a bit of experience with a Muslim immigrant community, I’ll let you in on a bit of a not-so-much of a secret:

    If you are Muslim, male, and practice buggery with other males, and then get found out by non-buggering Muslim males, you’ll be lucky to escape with your life. This is especially (but not exclusively) true in the Middle East, large swaths of African, and those parts of Asia that are predominately Muslim.

    Fuck the Sharia citations. That’s the reality of it at ground level.

  27. ‘Islam’ hasn’t allied itself with The Left. Therein lies the problem.

    Moslems in Western countries vote socialist/left by something like 80 or 90%:

    Muslims voted overwhelmingly for Labour, with 85% having preferred for Jeremy Corbyn’s party, and 11% supported the Conservatives.

  28. In the US of States:

    78 percent [of Muslim voters] said they voted for Democrat Hillary Clinton

    Maybe this was because mean old DRUMPF says mean things about the Religion of Pieces?

    But nah, he actually did better with Moslems than his Republican predecessor:

    More than 85 percent of Muslim voters in the United States voted for US President Barack Obama in the 2012 election

  29. If you are Muslim, male, and practice buggery with other males, and then get found out by non-buggering Muslim males, you’ll be lucky to escape with your life.

    Counterpoint:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi

    Islam isn’t monolithic, different countries and sects may have completely different horrific and disgusting cultures. The Turks buggered Lawrence of Arabia an’ all.

  30. “liberal secular agenda of RSE”

    Well, duh, yes! Because schools have no business indoctrinating religious views, that’s the job of the churches, temples, mosques, chapels, etc, for the very good reason of ****WHICH***** religion should the schools indoctrinate pupils in? I have ancestors who refused to pay taxes for children to be taught they they themselves were abominations for not adhering to the One True State Religion.

    And basically, if you want to take advantage of free-at-point-of-use state-provided services, you take whatever those free state provided services are. If you don’t want the content of those free state-provided services, you are entirely at liberty to **** off and obtain the service content you want from some other provider.

  31. Whilst I sympathise pretty much with jgh’s point generally, I’d like to sound an oxymoron alert, please:

    free state-provided services

    Er, no. Just no!

  32. They (The Left) tolerates the (‘Islamic’) hatred of Jews and LGBT because when it boils down to it, they believe when the time comes their innate superiority will allow them to bend ‘Islam’ to their purposes.

    By what will actually happen is one of them will run the Left down with a stolen dump truck.

  33. “If you don’t want the content of those free state-provided services, you are entirely at liberty to **** off and obtain the service content you want from some other provider.”

    Not in the UK you’re not. Or rather you can, but the State will be controlling the private sector too, via its monopoly of violence. That is to say if you don’t like the State provided education, and go and set up your own school the State will come along and start ordering you to provide exactly the same indoctrination that you left the State school to avoid.

  34. NiV

    “They’ve already been reforming for a couple of centuries, and have progressed a long way from their origins. Western Muslims are a lot more tolerant than Middle Eastern Muslims, who in turn are a lot more tolerant than Muslims several centuries ago.”

    Not sure about this claim. I’ve always thought that Islam east of the Middle East used to be almost Anglican (eg light touch) up until the last half century. Certainly Afghanistan was fairly secular as was Indonesia. Pictures showing most women with their hair uncovered pre1979 in Afghanistan are fairly common. I also think that Pakistan was more secular. The rise of the Muslim Brotherhood, Salafis and the Wahabis – with Gulf oil money made for far more aggressive hard core Islam in these countries. Boosted by the fight with the Russians etc. To claim the direction of travel is towards more modernism flies in the face of observation. It’s also true that Western mosques have to a great extent been funded by these hardcore fundamentalists. This ignores the rise of Shia fundamentalism with the mullahs in Iran (and thus the rise of hezbollah etc) – all in the reverse direction.

    I’ve always tended to the view that the West’s alliance with the House of Al Saud and thus the Wahabis was a major mistake.

  35. To claim the direction of travel is towards more modernism flies in the face of observation.

    Also, second and third generation immigrants to the West are observably more hostile to their host societies, not less.

    People who came here in the 70’s to open shops or work in textile factories didn’t put their wives in burkhas or stab other Moslems for wishing “happy Easter”, or refuse to serve people alcohol even though that’s their job.

    But some of their kids and grandkids do.

    It’s hard to blame Moslems for rejecting modernism, btw. It’s a moral vacuum, and like all vacuums, it sucks.

  36. @steve

    I wonder if that isnt because of the Wahabi funded mosques all over the West that have pushed a far harder line in the last 50 years.

  37. “I’ve always thought that Islam east of the Middle East used to be almost Anglican (eg light touch) up until the last half century. Certainly Afghanistan was fairly secular as was Indonesia. Pictures showing most women with their hair uncovered pre1979 in Afghanistan are fairly common. I also think that Pakistan was more secular.”

    Yes. That’s the progress I was talking about. The conservative Muslims have recognised this, realised where it is going, and are fighting back, hard.

    It’s a bit like saying that society has not drifted steadily towards lefty liberalism in its institutions and political establishment by pointing to the election of Donald Trump. But since Trump’s election was a *reaction* to the drift, it doesn’t refute the point.

    The Muslim Brotherhood are the Islamic equivalent of the Tea Party. Their cause is to fight the Westernisation of their traditional culture. ‘Hardcore fundamentalism’ is simply a partial reversal of some of this drift. ISIS got it right – what they were doing was Islam as it was originally practiced. The difference to Muslims elsewhere is stark.

    “People who came here in the 70’s to open shops or work in textile factories didn’t put their wives in burkhas or stab other Moslems for wishing “happy Easter”, or refuse to serve people alcohol even though that’s their job. But some of their kids and grandkids do.”

    That’s to be expected, since the people who came here were those least comfortable back at home.

    In a Muslim majority country, you might get 80% orthodox and 20% modernist, and 75% of their kids will be orthodox. But if some of that 20% come and live in the West, then 100% of the first generation will be modernist and maybe 5% of their kids orthodox, instead of 75%. The evironment they grow up in makes a big difference. But it’s not a big surprise that there are more of the orthodox in the second generation, who had no choice over where to live, than in the first, who moved here specifically because of their beliefs.

  38. NiV

    Your blithe assumption is that modernism is still progressing. Look at Iran – once relatively secular and modernist, now a place where the Orthodox run things. It wasnt modernism that made places like Pakistan or Afghanistan more “modernist”, it was separation from orthodoxy because dirt poor people didnt care and there was no money in orthodoxy – which has been imposed by Gulf oil money funded mosques and madrasas. Pakistan was once relatively secular, it is now clearly overrrun with militant Islam. The direction of travel of the vast bulk of Islam is towards the militant side. This includes many Muslims in the West. The information technology revolution allows the militant orthodox to impose their views on the world in a way that was not true 50 years ago.

    We need the well spring of money flowing to these places to dry up and to back secular regimes. One thing we will come to regret on this front is going to be allowing Erdogan to overthrow the secular Turkish state.

  39. “Your blithe assumption is that modernism is still progressing.”

    My blithe observation is that it’s still progressing. The fact that they’re fighting back doesn’t mean they’re winning the war.

  40. I’ve spoken to senior British and American officers who have been offered “bacha bazi” on “man love Thursday” and been utterly horrified.

    The propaganda that is spoken by the NIV is, well, Goebbelesk.

  41. You guys give up too easily. I’ve spent weeks on some arguments. This one’s only been going two days!

  42. “I’ve spoken to senior British and American officers who have been offered “bacha bazi” on “man love Thursday” and been utterly horrified.”

    I’m not surprised. The Taliban imposed the death penalty for participating in it. Savages, eh?

  43. “It’s a bit like saying that society has not drifted steadily towards lefty liberalism in its institutions and political establishment by pointing to the election of Donald Trump. But since Trump’s election was a *reaction* to the drift, it doesn’t refute the point.”

    Bollocks. If Trump had swept to power and done an Erdogan, wiping out his enemies within the State apparatus, and installing Tea Party faithful in every position of power, then yes you could compare the vote for Trump with the sweep of radical Islam through the Islamic world. On the other hand Don has just been the subject of a 3 year witch hunt by his enemies within the State apparatus, has been thwarted at every move by the liberal judiciary, and has struggled to get any of his policies enacted. While in the Islamic world the radicals are the ones now in charge everywhere.

    And somehow in NiV world the Islamic nutters being in charge everywhere is ‘proof’ that they are losing. But then again you think that a bloke in a dress is a woman, so your grasp of reality is somewhat tenuous anyway.

  44. Niv

    Your claim is not an observation. Observationally, I’d say that the rise of militant Islam is pretty worrying. The collapse of Pan-Arab nationalism/ state socialism has ushered in fundamentalist regimes in North Africa (Libya, Sudan, Egypt – overturned) and elsewhere – Palestine (Hamas vs. PLO), Syria (beaten back by the Russians and Iran!), Iraq, Somalia and Turkey (EU bullying of the government not to be beastly to the Islamicists).

    There are serious Islamic insurgencies in Yemen, Afghanistan, Mali, Nigeria, Niger, Philippines and Algeria.

    There are Islamist parties close to power in Tunisia, Lebanon. Pakistan is basically run by a mix of the military and Islamists.

    The best news recently has been the Crown Prince of Saudi MBS, who has been giving the Islamists in Saudi a kicking.

    The direction of travel for probably 80%+ of Muslims is towards more militant fundamentalist Islam over the past 50 years – so your airy statement is an assertion, one unsupported by fact.

  45. “[Nivs] airy statement is an assertion, one unsupported by fact.’

    Of course it is, the alternative would mean he’d have to change his world and ideological view to fit the observed facts. Far better to make the facts fit the preconceived notions already in his head…..

  46. formertory: I was getting fed up of typing the whole of “free-at-point-of-use state-provided services”.

    But the point stands, if you don’t like the content of Radio 3, don’t consume the content of Radio 3, seek the content you want from some other content provider.

  47. Jim: my local private school doesn’t follow the National Curriculum, I haven’t seen tanks on their lawn. And the choice of education supply in the UK isn’t solely state or private, their’s also home schooling. Originally included in education laws to allow the poshoes to have Peregrine and Araminta tutored at home.

  48. @jgh: while private schools still have some leeway on what they may teach, that is being rapidly eroded, particularly in the ‘equality’ sphere of gender and sexual ideology. I have a connection to a small private evangelical Christian school, they are increasingly finding that Ofsted are dictating what they may teach the children in their care.

    And while home schooling is ultimately still available, its a) not something that all parents are in a position to do, and b) is also under frequent attack from the education establishment. I foresee that in the not too distant future the right to home school your children will be removed, replaced initially with a ‘licencing’ system, which will give the authorities control over who can do it and what is taught, and home schooling will in the long run be outlawed entirely.

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