So, why?

Britain’s equality watchdog has abandoned a legal case against the NHS for failing to provide fertility treatments to transgender patients.

Transitioning can lead to fertility loss, but many patients are not offered a chance to have eggs or sperm stored.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) had threatened NHS England with a judicial review, saying it should take steps to ensure such patients were routinely be offered fertility preservation.

The watchdog had argued that those seeking treatment for gender dysphoria should be treated in the same way as those with other conditions – such as cancer – which threaten fertility.

Has the NHS already given in? Or did EHRC realise how stupid he demand seemed?

You know, demanding that a woman, who has always been a woman and is very much still a woman, must have the right to be a father?

10 comments on “So, why?

  1. I fail to see why the NHS is wasting our money on attempting to satisfy the delusions of loonies. If I became convinced I was (and had always been) Horatio Nelson would I be entitled to have an arm and eye removed at the taxpayer’s expense?

  2. FFS, if someone is unwilling to even approach the intermediate step between male and female by having their offending gonads removed, we really don’t need to offer them the fiction of being recognised as their imagined gender. Why subsidise them to contaminate the gene pool and perpetuate their confusion into the next generation?

  3. I fail to see why the NHS is wasting our money on attempting to satisfy the delusions of loonies.

    Because the State is now also run by loonies.

  4. “Has the NHS already given in?”

    Yes. They’re going to update their guidance to say that a stronger reason is needed to deny fertility treatment.

  5. Their are tens of millions of dead people the NHS has failed resurrect–never mind the ones they helped to polish off.

    There has to be a lawsuit inthere somewhere.

  6. “Transitioning can lead to fertility loss,”

    Really? Getting your knackers chopped off can lead to fertility loss?

  7. So the NHS must insure me against the consequences of my free choice even though I insist I’m making that choice in full cognisance of the consequences that choice?

  8. “So the NHS must insure me against the consequences of my free choice even though I insist I’m making that choice in full cognisance of the consequences that choice?”

    No. But it can’t choose to do so in one case (cancer sufferers choose freely to get chemotherapy or radiotherapy knowing it will render them infertile) and not another (TGs) based purely on whether they diapprove of or disbelieve in the condition.

    I’m sure if there were people who thought cancer was a made-up condition, and treatment for it shouldn’t be provided on the NHS, they would feel equally sore about them getting free fertility treatment too.

    It’s perfectly feasible to treat people for cancer, saving their lives but rendering them infertile. And say to them “If you also want children, then you’ll have to pay extra.” The NHS chooses not to do that – it considers a patient’s fertility as a part of the good health they aim to restore. But having chosen to do so, it cannot then discriminate based on politics.

  9. I’m transgender, and my right to NHS treatment is because I paid taxes – 7 figures worth in my life so far, although I don’t think that’s the principle, I suspect it’s a higher contribution than most people moaning about trans ‘freeloaders’. I’ve at the very least paid my fair share, and am thus entitled to equal treatment on equal principles to any other UK citizen, and at least as much as smokers, alcohol drinkers, overweight people, people who don’t exercise, and so on. Unlike them, I did not choose to be/stay trans, it just happened to be how my biology worked.

    ALL the world’s medical authorities recognise being transgender as a medical condition with many harmful outcomes on the individual, and the only recognised cure is gender transition. We face waiting lists of 3-4 years before an initial treatment, often 4-5 for any surgery.

    Those who think it’s a free choice to transition or not, consider that it’s a free choice to smoke or drink or stay unhealthily fat or not exercise, and yet those people also get NHS treatment without any scrutiny.

    Similarly, consider the case of Alan Turing, who took ‘chemical castration’ instead of the alternative of a few years inside for gay sex in the 50s. Chemical castration is just taking the opposite sex hormones daily – exactly the same as transitioning people do.

    Turing – an Oxbridge graduate with an exceptional IQ, a good long-distance runner (requiring mental fortitude, resilience to pain/exhaustion, and discipline), and a codebreaking war hero (described by Churchill as ‘the man who did the most to win World War II’) lasted 2 1/2 years under opposite-sex hormone treatment before the ‘gender dysphoria’ (purely the emotional effects of the wrong hormones – unlike a trans person who has the ‘wrong body’ physical incongruence to deal with every minute of their waking life) reached crippling levels and largely drove him to poison himself with cyanide.

    If gender dysphoria can drive a resilient, talented, proven character like Turing to suicide, when WWII and public disgrace didn’t, then it is not a ‘free choice’ in any meaningful sense to stay in the wrong body, with the wrong hormones, for your entire life – especially considering that all medical authorities recognise it as a chronic and *progressive* (getting worse each year) condition. If that is a free choice, so is jumping off a burning building to your death, to die fast rather than in agony from the flames.

    Most trans people aren’t political extremist attention-seekers, they are just regular people, who want to get their unasked for and damaging condition fixed as best as possible, without being labelled freaks, attacked, abused, harrassed, fired, evicted, viewed as beyond the pale as dating or relationship or friendship prospects, for no reason other than that many people don’t; know anything about the condition, and some of those react with condemnation and ostracism.

    Regarding equality, and value for taxpayer money – NHS targets for treatment are 15 weeks maximum, and 2 weeks maximum for life-threatening conditions (e.g. cancer lump suspected). Current NHS waiting lists for a *first evaluation* (not actual treatment – just meeting a doctor) for transgender people is around 105-115 weeks in most areas. Considering that over 40% of trans people attempt suicide before their transitioning is complete, it would be fair to say being transgender, and having no treatment for 2-4 years on the NHS, is endangering their life (not to mention ability to function, hold down a demanding job, juggle life demands – on top of dealing with unprovoked hostility & exclusion from sections of society).

    This is not consistent with any principles of morality, social justice, the social contract, citizenship rights, human rights, equal respect & dignity for all human beings, or the founding principles of the NHS. It is not consistent with value for money for the taxpayer, given that a high paying/e.arning trans person has to wait 3-4 years for NHS treatment, while a lifelong benefit claimant who isnj’t trans, gets treated 3-4 months maximum for the consequences of their unhealthy lifestyle, or days to a fortnight if they get lung cancer or heart disease from chain smoking, being a couch potato, and serial boozing.

    Unlike transphobic people, transgender people do not choose their condition, or their need to get medical treatment to alleviate it. Transphobes, on the other hand, have 100% control over all their hostile views towards trans people.

    I am not a dogmatic extremist, nor are most transgender (or cisgender) people. I know there is room to disagree between reasonable people on different sides of an issue. But there is no place for promoting views based on ignorance of demonstrated facts, science, data, and medical research – especially when those views can harm, shorten, and even end tens of thousands of lives.

    All we want is to be treated the same as anyone else, get judged on our actions and character, not our appearance or gender condition, and for society’s systems to treat us according to consistent, just and fair principles, not make up excuses to deny us our fair claim on the resources of a society that is quite happy to tax and regulate us when we succeed, against longer odds than most (not all) non-trans people have to face.

    Luckily I have found that the ‘good eggs’ in Britain in 2019 outnumber the bad eggs by about 5:1 – I get far more spontaneous friendly remarks and actions from strangers in public than bad ones. I post here simply because I read this uninformed post, and the judgement is clearly made without having enough of the facts, experience, knowledge, empathy, and open-mindedness to make an informed comment.

    Go out and hang out with a few trans people and medical professionals, watch a few good documentaries, read a book or two on the subject, then you can talk from a position of at least some realistic information & a bit of experience. Then bear in mind that *every* trans person has 1000s of times more experience on the subject than you, as they life and experience it every moment of every day.

    There are some things you can’t teach a virgin, and there are some things you can’t teach a cisgender person 🙂

    Sorry for going on but I don’t have time or inclination to edit. Maybe you get something out of what I wrote, and if you read this far, thank you for considering my alternative point of view, and Tim for hosting the site and comment (if you let it stay! I’ll assume so :D)

  10. You might be a little misunderstanding he point. Few around here – and certainly I don’t – doubt either the existence of intersex, gender dysphoria etc. Nor the need for, at times, treatment including all of those currently on offer.

    The poking, the snide remarks, the jokes, are aimed at the excesses of the current environment and movement. And it’s near impossible to insist that there aren’t such excesses at present.

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