Has he told the SNP that they’re neo-fascist?

As I have argued in my previous blog, one consequence of Brexit is that the Tory Party is now a party of English nationalists. I believe that change is permanent. It is becoming in consequence neo-fascist.

Nationalism is neo-fascism? Anyone told the SNP, Plaid and Sinn Fein?

26 comments on “Has he told the SNP that they’re neo-fascist?

  1. I’m insisting on definitions for all political smears nowadays. I’ve never had one when requested of the smearer.

  2. “Anyone told the SNP”
    Their nationalism is the limited to the football doctrine… Anyone but the English.

  3. “Nationalism is neo-fascism?”

    Not fascism, but it is protectionism.

    “I’m insisting on definitions for all political smears nowadays.”

    By all means. Protectionism is an attempt by a group to use force or law to exclude the competition, seeking a monopoly over supply, restricting consumer choice, raising prices, and resulting in consumers (and hence society, and hence themselves) getting a worse deal at a higher price.

    Manufacturers guilds protect their own industry by setting tariffs and regulations to keep out competition, raising prices. Unions protect their members’ jobs by creating closed shops to keep out the competition, raising wages. Nationalists protect their own citizens’ industries and jobs by setting tariffs and regulations and a national closed shop to keep out competition, raising prices and wages.

    It’s a variety of socialism – the nation is a labour union, the nation’s citizens are the union members, and immigrant workers are scabs and union-busters, bringing down the members’ wages with their better/cheaper competition.

    National socialists are not necessarily fascists, although if they ever gain power they commonly drift in that direction, as they struggle ever more desperately to get their insane economics to work.

    “I’ve never had one when requested of the smearer.”

    Are you happy now that you have? 🙂

  4. “..the Tory Party is now a party of English nationalists.”

    Only in Spud’s fevered imagination.

  5. NiV said:
    “Nationalists protect their own citizens’ industries and jobs by setting tariffs and regulations and a national closed shop to keep out competition”

    Not necessarily (although I agree often). Nationalism is putting one’s own country’s interests first. It is quite possible for an economically literate nationalist to see that free trade is in one’s country’s best interest.

  6. The SNP are Plaid Cumru are left wing.
    My problem is the UKIP who want to override the democractic parliament in Scotland, and cancel it, Despite the fact the Scottish that was voted for by a far larger margin than Brexit.
    UKIP are fascist, and want to impose english imperialism on Scotland and Wales. . They talk about sovereignty but forget about it for Scotland.

  7. Tory Party is now a party of English nationalists.

    Lol. The party which has sabotaged Brexit is a party of English nationalists. What a fucking bell-end.

  8. Rob has put into words what I was thinking. As an aside, I also came across a comment on another blog that claimed that the current crop of Tories were right wing.

  9. “Not necessarily (although I agree often). Nationalism is putting one’s own country’s interests first. It is quite possible for an economically literate nationalist to see that free trade is in one’s country’s best interest.”

    Excellent point! You’re absolutely right.

    Although that sort of nationalist seems to me vanishingly rare.

  10. NiV, it was neo-fascist I needed a definition for, and from the person who flung it, not a reasonable chap like you. I know what a nationalist is and there are many flavours. I still don’t know what a neo-fascist is or what differentiates it from the old kind. (Which of course many many people only use as an idle insult with no understanding of the principles. Some of them think it right-wing!)

  11. “Not necessarily (although I agree often). Nationalism is putting one’s own country’s interests first. It is quite possible for an economically literate nationalist to see that free trade is in one’s country’s best interest.”

    Occasionally you come across a point in blogs like this and think this is so obvious why isn’t it mainstream thinking. I hadn’t heard it before but be sure I will in the future, thanks.

    It reminded me of early the early days of Trump when he was talking about putting America first. Whenever I came across someone complaining about it I would ask which country they thought the President of the USA should put first.

  12. Neo fascism is like normal fascism but all the uniforms are made of space age foil and the cars can fly and all the Marching music is done with electro!

  13. “Manufacturers guilds protect their own industry by setting tariffs and regulations to keep out competition, raising prices. ”

    Having, by default, the right to be a member of the Goldsmiths – being a goldsmith within the City of London gives you that – I can tell you the Guilds do much more than that. Our guild created the assay office & hallmarking so that you can be assured that all that glitters is indeed gold. Much the same as the other guilds ensured those practising their crafts were competent to do so. So providing customer protection in an age when there would have been little recourse to the courts for consumers.
    So fuck off.

  14. You want a definition of neo-fascism? On the basis of the Brexit shambles just look at the UK in 2019. Or, for that matter, the EU. There you go.

  15. @BinND… “I would ask which country they thought the President of the USA should put first.”

    Many folks I know, once they achieved a reasonable standard of living (comfortably off), became different people to the ones they were in their earlier years. I guess it’s easier to think of others when your own house has been ringfenced and is secure? Hence the Toynbees of the world making free with ‘our’ money…the British establishment’s commitment to foreign aid. And while most buy into the principle of looking after our own people first, we all have a different interpretation of what classifies as the deserving or the non-deserving poor.

  16. “Not necessarily (although I agree often). Nationalism is putting one’s own country’s interests first. It is quite possible for an economically literate nationalist to see that free trade is in one’s country’s best interest.”

    Indeed. I’m super pro-free trade, but the data on the benefits of immigration are that we should be filtering out most people at the low end. I don’t believe that Portugeuse baristas are in our national interest, but Indian programmers are.

  17. If you start by accepting that the left is internationalist, and that everything not left is fascist, then the statement makes sense.
    If course we are free to question those assumptions.

  18. “Our guild created the assay office & hallmarking so that you can be assured that all that glitters is indeed gold. Much the same as the other guilds ensured those practising their crafts were competent to do so.”

    Ah, yes. Rather like the EU’s CE mark, yes? Much of EU regulation is around consumer standards, safety, environment, purity, quality, etc. It’s all about making sure European consumers get quality goods, none of this shoddy dangerous stuff from China.

    And it just so happens that you have to pay the guild to get certification, and pay them again to keep it up to date, and everyone has to go to a local guild-approved assayer to get their products checked, because obviously we don’t know those foreign marks. All the local manufacturers and sellers know the process, know the assayers, have got regular business with them, and have built their manufacturing and delivery processes around the needs of the regulations. As members of the guild, sellers would naturally not sell any potentially dodgy unapproved products, and there’s a waiting list for new people to join, don’t you know?

    According to Cato, regulatory protectionism is the new big thing: https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa723.pdf

    The legitimacy of the modern administrative state rests upon an inaccurate assumption that regulators will reliably behave like selfless agents of the public interest. On the contrary, legislators and bureaucrats respond to personal incentives just like anyone else.

    “Indeed. I’m super pro-free trade, but the data on the benefits of immigration are that we should be filtering out most people at the low end.”

    Who is “we” here? The employers and coffee shop proprietors? Or the state?

  19. “Rather like the EU’s CE mark, yes? Much of EU regulation is around consumer standards, safety, environment, purity, quality, etc. It’s all about making sure European consumers get quality goods, none of this shoddy dangerous stuff from China.”

    Weird then that just about everything you see nowadays is ‘made in China’. Its almost as if the Chinese just stamp CE on everything regardless and pretend to be abiding by whatever rules thats supposed to mean……

  20. “Its almost as if the Chinese just stamp CE on everything regardless and pretend to be abiding by whatever rules thats supposed to mean……”

    They do abide by the rules. But they have to pay the price for doing so, which of course gets added on to the price of the goods…

    Like the EU pays its own industries subsidies and charges foreign industries tariffs (the common agricultural policy is still around 39% of the EU’s budget… they clearly see it as something important), but foreign goods are still sold in the EU. Do you think that means that tariffs and subsidies and the CAP don’t have any effect on trade?

  21. Well, NiV, you go buy yourself an un-hallmarked piece of jewellery & good luck to you. There’s some African lookeeman flogging earrings he’ll tell you are made of silver down by the beach. But don’t blame me when you girlfriend’s .ears fall off.

  22. @ NiV
    Mediaeval Guilds were indeed protectionist but Goldsmiths’ assay marks do not need to be renewed until the piece is altered (unlike the EU tick-boxes). Someone used to issue a little book so that you could check the place and year of each assay mark for a piece of gold or sterling silver for the last several (I cannot remember but I think it was probably six) hundred years.
    You didn’t need to get things checked.
    There was competition, not a waiting list, for *Apprenticeships* which took seven years to quallify for every Guild and most Guilds required a demonstration of the quality of the work before an apprentice could graduate to Journeyman and another “Masterpiece” before he could become a fully qualified tradesman and be allowed to employ an apprentice.
    Amthough some City Guilds relate to a dead craft (e.g.Bowyers or Fletchers) and are now just social and charitable institutions some still maintain education and training for apprentices and professional standards for the qualified.

  23. “they do abide by the rules” guffaws . You,ve obviously never purchased a Chinese set of rechargeable bike lights and watched the charger melt it self. The rumour is that CE actually stands for China export

  24. China stuff’s a good example, Jim. I buy a lot of stuff out of China. Don’t have any problems with it. Much better than the stuff you find in the shops.
    But I buy through AliExpress. Which has a satisfaction survey for customers, the results of which it shows on the listings. And they’ll arbitrate over disputes. Any suppliers get a lot of bad feedback get bumped off the site.
    Essentially, they’re not acting much different from a guild. The AliExress handle keeps its users honest. EBay does much the same. Did the Goldsmiths ever set prices? It’s hard to believe they did. The metal price is market. The work that goes in depends on the piece & all pieces are different. So are goldsmiths.

  25. “They do abide by the rules.”

    Of course they do…..they churn out stuff by the container ship load for all over the world, but have a special super duper special rules production line just for the EU stuff……yeh, right.

Leave a Reply

Name and email are required. Your email address will not be published.

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.