Women’s Equality Party manifesto

How does this work?

including truly shared parental leave with the same
rights for self-employed parents

Maternity and paternity leave are paid for – in the UK at least – 10% by the employer and 90% from national insurance contributions that the employer doesn’t hand over to HMRC. The self employed are their own employer and also pay very much lower NI in return for gaining fewer such rights and payments.

So, who pays that 10% if not the employer of the self-employed? And then, are NI rates upon the self-employed to rise to cover that maternity and paternity leave?

How, actually, does this work?

20 comments on “Women’s Equality Party manifesto

  1. A company deducts 92% of Statutory Maternity Pay from its overall National Insurance bill, but that’s just how the payments are made. The incidence of SMP is on the tax take as a whole; it isn’t ring-fenced from NI payments.

    So to answer your question, the extra money will come out of general taxation (including NI). The amount of NI paid by the self-employed is irrelevant. The UK doesn’t do ring-fencing.

  2. @ Andrew M
    That only applies to Statutory Maternity Pay – anything above the statutory minimum comes out of the employer’s pocket. The employer also has to find someone to do the job as a temp while she is on maternity leave and have the job waiting for her when, and if, she decides to return.
    A self-employed guy takes six months paternity leave? The job isn’t there when he comes back – all his customers have got fed up and gone elsewhere or, if he has tired a substitute lots of them will stay with the substitute and he’ll have two-thirds of the income with 100% of the overheads.
    That’s why most small businesses don’t give paternity leave to their key workers – because it would wreck the business.

  3. Andrew. M – “the extra money will come out of general taxation”

    you couldn’t be more wrong.

    to quote the first line of the WEP manifesto.

    “More equality doesn’t mean taking from one section of
    the population to give to another.”

  4. John 77,

    Seems fair that if the company wants to offer anything above statutory, that they should cover it themselves, rather than expect the taxpayer to pay out. Agreed on the rest.

    Hallowed Be,

    “More equality doesn’t mean taking from one section of the population to give to another.”

    They’re just flat-out lying, aren’t they?

  5. I had a similar problem to this when I was hospitalised in 2018. It used to be that if you there was a shortfall between the amount due to the employee in in sickness and other NI related payments then the a reverse payment from DWP / HMRC (whomever) would be made.

    Nowadays, the company is forced to make up the difference, so a one-man-band limited company has to pay the sick pay out of company coffers. So much for all the tax and NI paid then.

    Since there was no income (being in hospital), the advice I was given was to issue a P45 for said sick employee (myself), which seemed a bit harsh and then when claiming explain that “the employee was dismissed for being unable to continue working”. Nothing but tedious bureaucracy all around. Took months to get any payment at all from HMRC / DWP.

  6. Imagine voting for the Man-Hating She-Ra Party though. Do they send you a box of wine and a houseful of cats, or is that a prerequisite? I hear the Lib Dems offer free admission to the sex offenders’ register.

    It’s almost as risible as the Chukka Umbongo fanclub, or the Tories.

  7. When a business has an employee on maternity leave, it has several choices. One is to do less business. Another is to make the remaining staff work harder. A third is to employ someone as maternity cover. When the woman returns to work she is likely to be less useful as an employee, because her thoughts are elsewhere, to put it mildly.

    I have seen mothers return to work and spend the majority of their pay on child care. I’m not so sure that either the family or the employer necessarily gets a good deal out of that.
    My experience in the University sector is that if a colleague takes maternity leave, the University will expect male colleagues to provide cover. There won’t be any extra payment. If the (male) providing the cover and the female taking the leave are the entire subject specialist team, his workload will be doubled. The University will find it difficult to get a post through its bureaucracy in the time available, and there aren’t usually any suitably qualified people just looking for a short-term, and therefore not secure, job.

    A suitable set of rules to avoid getting trapped therefore might be to resist the appointment of any woman of child-bearing age to the academic staff. This includes lesbians, who are sometimes pregnant via the turkey baster. Trannies, of course, are safe, as well as being in great demand by University Management! Post menopausal women are also OK – if you can put up with their moaning, poor health and the general smell of piss.

    On the other hand, as the average University Lecturer is an idle tosser, the experience of getting a nearly full-time job may be an eye-opener.

    (In an engineering department one used to be safe: there were few women staff. Not so now).

    The odd rake who shags every female colleague he can get his hands on has at least the consolation that he gets a fuck out of it. The rest get fuck-all (or fucked over). So now you know.

  8. Ha. they raise a stink about an issue (women in science tech and maths,,, then propose to solve it by adding more art. Oscar Wilde would approve.

    ” the potential for data-driven technology for good can only
    be realised through a STEAM approach (the A stands
    for “art”) that also recognises the need for technology
    to be designed with reference to and understanding of
    its wider-world impacts — and people. Social scientists,
    ethicists and anthropologists are just as necessary to the
    tech future as engineers.

  9. “More equality doesn’t mean taking from one section of
    the population to give to another.”

    Lol. This is either Tony Blair level lying or they are naive beyond belief.

  10. @ Andrew M
    Completely agree on the company being allowed to pay its staff more than the statutory minimum out of its own pocket. There’s even a parable in favour (Matthew XX). It is also sound business practice for key employees whom you want to keep, so not as stupid or wasteful as it sounds.

  11. Doesn’t the evidence from countries that have such policies show that it’s still primarily the mother that takes the leave anyway

  12. BNIC- “it’s still primarily the mother”

    WEP “including truly shared parental leave”

    -that “truly” ……..is a incey-wincey bit sinister.. don’t you think?

  13. @ BniC
    I was OK on changing nappies (actually i hated it but I did it) but was not equipped to Breastfeed. WEP obviously wants fathers to breastfeed, so they are not getting *my* vote.

  14. If you are self-employed you have infinite rights to infinite leave – you control your own work, youare your own line manager, you can stop that work at any time, there is nobody else to control your work, that’s the entire definition of being self-employed.

  15. Let’s start with this.

    1. Parental leave is not a ‘right’. If someone else is paying for it then its a privilege. If you’re forcing someone else to pay for then you’re enslaving someone for your privilege.

    2. Every has always had a right to parental leave – you just take parental leave. You’re not a slave. Take some time off work. That’s parental leave. What these people want is to enslave other people to keep paying them while taking time off.

    The self-employed are paying for their own parental leave, they can take all the parental leave they ever wanted.

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