Pity the EU elections aren’t FPTP really

YouGov interviewed 7,192 British adults between Sunday and Thursday this week. When asked whom they would support in the European elections, 35 per cent said the Brexit Party, up 1 point on the week before.

Lib Dems were on 16 per cent, up 1, Labour on 15 per cent, down 1, Greens on 10 per cent, down 1, Conservatives on 9 per cent, down 1, Change UK unchanged on 5 per cent and Ukip unchanged on 3 per cent.

The decline of the Conservatives into single figures is likely to increase the panic in the party’s high command, with 62 per cent of Tory voters in the 2017 general election now saying that they will vote for the Brexit Party in the European elections. Only one in five who backed the party at the last general election is sticking with the Tories in the European elections.

Nige would sweep the board if they were.

61 comments on “Pity the EU elections aren’t FPTP really

  1. >The decline of the Conservatives into single figures is likely to increase the panic in the party’s high command

    Increase the panic? What panic? The Conservatives are acting like they have all the time in the world. They still haven’t managed to change the rules to get rid of May, and she’s still given them no firm committment or date to step down. They’re running on Ent time scales.

  2. But general elections are FPTP, and Corbyn will sweep the board if the right wing vote is split. That’s the biggest risk (bigger even than deal/no deal) in my opinion.

    The stories better sort it out quicksharp!

  3. He’s going to do very well indeed.

    Great message, great positivity, and an impressive bunch of candidates – Ann Widdecombe is basically a national treasure, the others are mostly fresh faces and none of them seem to be careerist pod people.

    I wouldn’t count them out of getting a result in the GE either, the Tories are in a death spiral they now appear unwilling to get out of, Corbyn has the highest negatives of any Labour leader in history, and a sizeable percentage of the population seems to like this democracy lark.

    TBP still needs to up its internet game, but they’ve come very far, very fast. Have we ever seen anything like it? The SDP was a project of the elites, I reckon. Its initial appeal was broad but soft. In the absence of a popular alternative, the Brexit Partiers are gonna romp it.

  4. BluLabour doesn’t give a shite about helping Marxian scum. If they really wanted to see Jizz and the Gang off once and for all they could go No Deal tomorrow and do exactly that. So no bullshit about “must vote Tory or its 1917 UK”.

    The Tory Grandee scum and SCS/EU sucking Establishment love their EUpals/masters/owners FAR more than they fear the piss-smelling spectre of Jizz. Enough to try and leverage votes from the prospect of a cunt who would have been and stayed nowhere without the direct and indirect help of BluLabour.

  5. The Conservatives are acting like they have all the time in the world.

    The Tories are that nervous, sweaty guy in a zombie movie who angrily denies that he was bitten.

    But general elections are FPTP, and Corbyn will sweep the board if the right wing vote is split. That’s the biggest risk (bigger even than deal/no deal) in my opinion.

    Corbyn is already the de facto Prime Minister. Nothing anyone can do about that, except help the Tories with their assisted suicide so we can get the genuinely popular, patriotic, sensible alternative to break the FPTP barrier faster.

  6. But general elections are FPTP, and Corbyn will sweep the board if the right wing vote is split. That’s the biggest risk (bigger even than deal/no deal) in my opinion

    Sure, he’s a loony who hates the West and has surrounded himself with anti-Semitic headcases, but that doesn’t mean the only other option is to vote for the other socialist party pretending to honour Brexit but really fucking it up because the leadership wants to stay in.

    A better option is kicking them in the balls and keep on doing it until they do as they are told. The days of sending polite messages are gone, because they cynically ignored every single one of them.

  7. You’ve got it all wrong people. The most urgent, pressing matter for UK leaders is censoring online hate.

    Brexit can wait. Indefinitely.

  8. Do these polls account for the ‘shy’ Brexiter? That’s why the polls all fucked up prior to the referendum in 2016, isn’t it?

    Could Nige really be nearer 40%??

  9. But general elections are FPTP, and Corbyn will sweep the board if the right wing vote is split. That’s the biggest risk (bigger even than deal/no deal) in my opinion

    Lefty millennials could probably do with a dose of socialism, give them the slap in the face they need. Just a shame everyone else would have to suffer.

  10. Lefty millennials could probably do with a dose of socialism, give them the slap in the face they need. Just a shame everyone else would have to suffer.

    But our previous socialist governments have at least been democratic socialists. Corbyn’s politburo is stuffed with hard-line Trots and Stalinists. We’ve already got a ‘climate emergency’ (apparently), what emergency will they dream up to prevent their own removal at the ballot box?

  11. “If they really wanted to see Jizz and the Gang off once and for all they could go No Deal tomorrow ”

    I hate the idea of voting Tory – only done so once in my life, to my recollection – but I have some (very limited) sympathy re their Brexit headache. If the Tory leadership go full-on No Deal then Parliament will vote to revoke Article 50 and that’ll be the end of this round of the Brexit battle. They don’t have the numbers to get No Deal through the parliamentary arithmetic – no majority, no support for No Deal in the other parties, no prospect of parliament accepting No Deal By Default since it is clear the majority will revoke if a government tried that trick, and there’s a dozen or so, maybe more, Tory backbenchers who would resign the whip to do so.

    I’m almost certainly going to vote TBP. But I’m a bit wary of the consequences – the best chance of Brexit getting through Parliament currently is for some of the Tory hardcore eurosceptics to accept the Deal and for some bones to be thrown to Labour backbenchers in heavy Leave seats (though a surprisingly high number of them seem willing to blame Brexit on their own voters’ stupidity and ignorance).

    If the European elections just encourage the Tory eurosceptic backbenchers to refuse to vote for Brexit because “it’s the wrong Brexit”, or encourages the next Tory leader to go down the alley of No Deal, then with Parliament in its current configuration we ain’t getting any Brexit.

    And in a fresh election, the Tories look like they’re going to be gutted, TBP might just pick up a few seats but will likely have the problems of the Lib Dems of yore (decent %, not many seats to show for it) and frankly none of the other parties show the slightest bit of interest getting Brexit over the line.

    Which suggests we need to get Brexit done this Parliament or it’ll be a case of waiting 5, 10, 15 years for a re-run. (There might just be enough appetite for it that it won’t be a 40 year wait, but maybe after the way it destroyed the last government to try it, future ones will be reticent about giving the people a say again.) And by the time of any second attempt, the UK will be more deeply embedded and harder to pull out, the demographics will likely be less favorable and we might not get so lucky as we did with Cameron choosing to eg not enfranchise EU citizens living in the UK (in a referendum rerun, that, and maybe votes for sixteen year olds, might be a way to pull some rabbits from the hat if they’re nervous about how the public might vote).

    Apologies for the negativity but does anybody see a realistic path forward for Brexit? One based on Parliament as it is, not their personal preferences/fantasies/frustrations on how they “should” vote?

  12. Nigel is in favour of proportional representation, so I’m sure he’ll be fine seeing the Tories rewarded with MEPs.

    Once The Brexit Party attempts a pivot to national politics it will be exposed as the hastily cobbled together clown show it is. Single issue politics never translates well. Big tent becomes circus tent.

  13. >If the Tory leadership go full-on No Deal then Parliament will vote to revoke Article 50 and that’ll be the end of this round of the Brexit battle.

    Nope. All that needs to be done is for the PM not to extend again. If Parliament gets wind of it it can vote to revoke, but it would need an Act of Parliament to revoke, not just a vote, and
    that is difficult

  14. 4,000,000 Conservative Voters voted remain,why is ti assumed that the ones who don`t love the odious idiot are Brexit voters ?
    I think they are probably the remain Conservative vote, Labour, on the other had is losing remain support( deservedly) but largely retaining Brexit voters which shows they don`t care that much either way. The Labour vote is still mostly remain voting.
    Overall this seems in line with polls which have for over a year showed that the majority do not support any Brexit whilst 30% or so, consider ethnic purity more important than services, prosperity and civilized Liberal values.
    That this minority should inflict their extreme views on the majority is quite astonishing and that is why this will n never never never be over

  15. Ben S said:
    “You’ve got it all wrong people. The most urgent, pressing matter for UK leaders is censoring online hate.”

    Yes, because they know we all hate them, and they don’t want us expressing that.

  16. Once The Brexit Party attempts a pivot to national politics it will be exposed as the hastily cobbled together clown show it is.

    Srsly, imagine having watched the shenanigans of the last three years and still believing this.

  17. The Conservatives could conceivably turn themselves around in short order by replacing May with Johnson who is the only likely successor to be both popular with the Conservative membership and able to appeal to a broader electorate in the country.

    Of course, too many Conservative MPs cannot abide Johnson at any price and would apparently prefer to be voted out of office themselves than to have him as leader.

    Another difficulty would be how constituency parties would deal with the likes of Hammond, Letwin and Grieve before the next General Election. There would need to be some blood-letting that might look like a purge if thought to be controlled from the centre.

  18. the best chance of Brexit getting through Parliament currently is for some of the Tory hardcore eurosceptics to accept the Deal

    The Deal is a deliberate national humiliation designed to keep us under the EU’s thumb forever. The BBC made a documentary recently where the Belgian fiddly kidders and other EUnuchs were cackling with glee about how it makes us their colony.

    May’s behaviour gave the game away. If she wanted to leave the EU, she wouldn’t be threatening her Surrender Agreement or No Brexit, and Phil Hammond wouldn’t still be in a job after openly boasting that he failed to plan for No Deal.

  19. MBE–Absolute rubbish.

    Were I PM I would bring that pack of cunts to heal in one day. If needs be I’d have 2000 troops waiting outside the HoT with the assurance that every single remainiac MP would be arrested on a charge of treason the very instant they voted for revoking Article 50. Not to mention making it clear that each of them would have a very nasty “resisting arrest” incident on their way to jail .

    Even that should not be needed. Any who defy instructions lose their job and pension that day. The govt has the mandate from the British electorate. There would be a new No Deal vote and the MPs vote would be entered as their constituents voted. Don’t like it–get arrested for treason on the spot.

    We would be out within the week.

    Fuck I’d use Bliar’s Contingencies shite and the cunts wouldn’t even get a vote. Drunker would get a nasty phone call and the promise of an SAS hit squad ending his life if he so much as complains.

  20. TMB – I think the Tories have passed the event horizon, nothing they can do now will save them. Their brand is completely Ratnerised* and Amber Rudd openly sneering at Conservative Home readers – her own activists – underscores how omnifucked they are.

    The window of opportunity for them closed when it became clear the European elections were happening. Nobody believes them anymore.

    *Bit unfair to Gerald Ratner, who is actually a competent businessman, but you get the idea

  21. 4,000,000 Conservative Voters , voted remain, why is it assumed that the ones who don`t love the oily rag are Brexit voters ?
    I think they are probably the remain Conservative vote, Labour, on the other had is losing remain support ( deservedly) but largely retaining Brexit voters which shows they don`t care that much either way. The Labour vote is still mostly remain voting.
    Overall this seems in line with polls which have for over a year showed that the majority do not support any Brexit whilst 30% or so, consider ethnic purity more important than services, prosperity and civilized Liberal values.
    That this minority should inflict their extreme views on the majority is quite astonishing and that is why this will n never never never be over

  22. Steve said:
    “The window of opportunity for them closed when it became clear the European elections were happening.”

    I’d say earlier – when they had the leadership challenge and voted to keep May. I think it’s been an inevitable death since then.

  23. Facepainter–more brass neck from your remainiac shit-shower who have staged not one but FOUR of the most deceitful and brazenly puffed up lied-to-the-skys scams in British history–2 fuckwit marches magically media magnified by 3 or 4 and two dickwad petitions signed by every electronic ghost who never existed.

    So take your prognostications and stuff them. I wouldn’t believe the sky being blue if you or any of your foul gang said it.

  24. The weaponised leftist/remainiac run polls aren’t worth shit Facepaint. But you keep on wasting electrons–you are already wasting space and oxygen so why not?

  25. @Steve

    Yes and I hope the Brexit party put that up in their advertising.

    I do understand, somewhat, the devoted federalist Remainers who the referendum has pushed out of the woodwork – not seen them about in any numbers since the days of “keep the pound” vs a putative campaign to join the single currency. But they are very much the minority even on the Remain side. For them this stuff is A Cause and humiliation of old-fashioned “patriotic” Britons is something worthy of celebration.

    Don’t understand those people who want the UK to be in the EU because somehow we “have to be”, or that think wanting to leave is somehow morally unvirtuous, but don’t actually want to be run by the folk featured in that documentary or to watch it evolve into a more federal, state-like organisation. I mean if there’s a club you disagree with the fundamental aims of, then you don’t just join for the free food, and you don’t accept as the price of membership that you stick your long term sovereignty on the line. It’s just daft. But there seem to be enough people in this camp that Leave currently stands behind in the polls, albeit slightly. I wonder if some of them can be reached out to and repersuaded, but I suspect a lot of them are just fed up with Brexit entirely.

    One of my issues with Farage is that he’s very much preaching to the converted at the moment – base energy is great, but if we end up having Brexitref2 The People’s Vote Again Until Y’all Do As We Say, we need more voices able to reach out and persuade moderate Remainers that if they don’t really like the EU and what it stands for then they’re actually better off voting Out. I’m not seeing anyone at the moment on the Brexit side who has that kind of cut-through. The left-wing Brexit campaigners have also mostly gone quiet or been drowned out, which makes it look a more explicitly or exclusively right-wing project – if it comes down to votes again, Leave will be needing some of those left-wing ones too.

    I’m not professing any great love for the Deal by the way, but if the choice is Deal vs No Brexit then at least future governments can have a bash at reshaping the relationship with the EU if it is felt to be unfair, whereas if we fail to Brexit now the opportunity may be lost for a generation and the next chance, even if sooner, will be harder.

    @Hector

    You’re showing a lot of faith in traditional parliamentary procedure being followed, remember that it will be an “emergency” and the Will of Parliament may require “exceptional” circumstances to be applied…

  26. I know several former Labour supporters who are very pleased to be voting for the Brexit Party. Labour having pissed on them.

    And again–FUCK THE POLLS. They are the creatures of the left and remain.

  27. @Ecks

    Any alternative universe UK that elected PM Ecks would no doubt be perfectly capable of Brexiting, probably without troops surrounding Westminster. It’s this UK that I’m more worried about.

  28. Srsly, imagine having watched the shenanigans of the last three years and still believing this.

    It is hastily cobbled together. It is a clown show. None of the shenanigans of the last three years changes that.

    That actually makes it perfect for the Euro elections (gets my vote), but Westminster is a different story. The only hope is that the longer established clown shows fall apart before they do.

  29. MBE – One of my issues with Farage is that he’s very much preaching to the converted at the moment

    I think that’s true, but I don’t think there are any Don’t Knows anymore. It’s been the dominant political issue for over 3 years now (the referendum itself dragged out for months).

    TBP probably won’t convince anyone who still supports Remain, their best play is getting the Brexit vote to turn out.

    A second referendum would be a strategic mistake for the establishment, but we’d still win a straight choice between Leave and Remain (which is why they won’t risk that)

    Otoh as far as I have seen, TBP has a pleasingly broad, not exclusively right-y message. Their candidates are genuinely diverse in the best sense.

  30. MyBurningEars

    If the Tory leadership go full-on No Deal then Parliament will vote to revoke Article 50 and that’ll be the end of this round of the Brexit battle.

    I think you may have missed a memo. The EU has already ruled that Article 50 may only be invoked once. If the UK revokes Article 50 then it surrenders the right to invoke it again. Ever.

    It’s quite possible that this is what the government is playing for. If Article 50 is revoked then the UK will be locked in forever and it will have all been worth it.

  31. MBE–Used myself as a for instance. Any leader with gonads could do the same. We could be out in a week and the HoTraitors would get no say in it.

    PJF–Cockrot. All politics is a clownshow. But we want clowns who will set us free and create conditions for freedom . TBP is there–as is UKIP. But the UKIPs fight is now the next battle–stopping and turning back the left’s imported voting legion.

    Brexit first. So TBP for now.

  32. “Sure, he’s a loony who hates the West and has surrounded himself with anti-Semitic headcases, but that doesn’t mean the only other option is to vote for the other socialist party pretending to honour Brexit but really fucking it up because the leadership wants to stay in.”

    You don’t get anywhere tactical voting. We only got a Brexit referendum because Nigel Farage got enough votes to crush some Conservative majorities and force the Conservatives to behave.

    The Tories are scared of their own shadows and all it takes is a Guardian article suggesting they might not be a bunch of left-wing high-spending pussies and they immediately announce more spending on whatever shit the Guardian are complaining about.

    I’d rather die in a fucking gulag than vote for that.

  33. Steve – you could well be right about the “ratnerisation” of the Conservatives. To my mind everything hangs on the extent to which voters believe that May and her parliamentary supporters are to be differentiated from the Party as a whole and whether that crowd go “Full Gerald” leaving Johnson free to rebuild credibility.

    If such a distinction is accepted, then the corpse may twitch back into life and the incentive to give a Johnson-led party the benefit of the doubt can be summed up in one word: Corbyn.

    TBP is a shoo-in for the Euro-elections but beyond that, who knows? FPTP is a substantial hurdle to newcomers and formulating a set of policies for a campaigning agenda for Westminster may see a lot of its support fall away.

    On a seperate tack, perhaps Brexit will be overtaken by the inevitable disintegration of the EU which should make good progress with TBP, Le Pen’s National Rally, AfD, and Salvini’s Liga all looking to dominate the new EU Parliament.

  34. Our politics is rotten from the EU down to the Parish Council. It just happens that the EU is the bit on which we have got a chance to express an opinion. The euro elections are a second referendum, but its not about Europe anymore, the last three years have exposed that rotten politics that is at the root of anti-EU sentiment, So this is a vote not just against the EU (which is not the same as Europe) but against the politics exemplified by the EU.

    Personally I am not keen on voting for a party with Anne Widdicombe at the top of the party list, so I am inclined to vote UKIP, but then the Euro elections are not FPTP so any vote that gets LibLabCon closer to null points will do.

  35. @TMB

    Rumours of the inevitable, immediate death of the EU are usually over exaggerations and though I expect anti EU parties to do well, they’re going to be in a minority overall.

    On the other hand I still can’t see the EU doing anything to fix its inherent structural instabilities and I don’t think its 10 to 20 year outlook is great. Also mystifies me why so many right-on types want us locked in political union with a bloc that’s overwhelmingly white and has some very strong nationalistic parties (and in some places even governments) in it.

    @Steve

    Yes I have to say I think Farage has done well avoiding UKIP Mark 2. Whatever he’s been up to in his sabbatical, he actually seems to have done some serious personal professional development. Can’t think of any other person who could have pulled this all off.

    And getting people to turn out is definitely going to be important. I think what frustrates me is the number of people who would be willing to vote Remain but are, in fact deeply opposed to the core aims and likely future political direction of the EU. Yet their vote will be taken as an endorsement for More Federalism Now. That really galls me, and if we end up remaining in the EU, failing to get some of these “soft Remainers” to switch over ought to be a significant source of regret for Leave campaigners.

  36. I may have said this before and if I have, I apologise for repeating it: I’ve long thought the two most urgent political priorities for this country were leaving the EU and the destruction of the Tories, in that order.

    I now realise I may have been wrong about the order of business. It seems the destruction of the Tories may be the necessary precondition to exiting the EU.

  37. Also mystifies me why so many right-on types want us locked in political union with a bloc that’s overwhelmingly white and has some very strong nationalistic parties (and in some places even governments) in it.

    Or why um..Nativists … would prefer illiterate brides form the Hindus valley to French financiers and German teachers whose children are entirely English. They do not as any fule do know.
    Brexit was a chance to expressed views from outright racist to socially conservative which is why European Fascist Parties were quick to express support.
    In terms of your economic predictions..meh…we had better hope you are wrong as our economy is unlikely to becomes significantly less reliant on our neighbours one of the reasons the treasury confirmed the mainstream assumption that “New Trade Deals” was a rhetorical device. Beats “slashing social employment environmental and consumer ” which would make a difference , good and (mostly ) bad

  38. No peasant’s revolt has ever succeeded without the help of some subset of the nobility. At the referendum it became clear that there was an army of peasants willing to revolt. The Brexit party is demonstrating that there still is and that a subset of the nobility have already joined them. More of the nobility will move over partly because it offers a credible route to power, partly to preserve their positions, partly because they believe the cause now winnable. It may or may not succeed, but if it does the legal niceties will be adjusted as necessary. There was no legal basis for Britain leaving the Roman empire, for America leaving the British, for India leaving the Empire. In all these cases the law was altered to fit the facts on the ground.

  39. Something I hadn’t really paused for thought on too much, the comment about only being able to call for A50 once, does that really mean they believe any country that truly wishes to leave could be bound by that rule?

  40. I’d say earlier – when they had the leadership challenge and voted to keep May

    Was there even a challenge? That’s the problem.

    if the choice is Deal vs No Brexit then at least future governments can have a bash at reshaping the relationship with the EU if it is felt to be unfair

    Sorry mate but that is never, ever going to happen. The EU is heading for full political union with us as a satrapy and nothing short of something tearing it to pieces is going to stop or even delay that.

  41. I notice that Jezza is playing his cards exactly as I suggested he would – he’s called off negotiations over Brexit. Very sensible – he can see how the failure to deliver Brexit is destroying the Tories, best to let them get on with it alone. He can now state (with at least some veracity) that he tried to negotiate with the daft bint but she’s utterly intransigent so he’s had to sadly withdraw. He’s going to force the Tories to choose between revoking A50 (and thus destroying themselves Carthage style) or opting for a No Deal exit (which he thinks, wrongly, will cause massive economic harm and generate a demand for the Hard Left to come to the rescue at the next GE, thrusting him into the hot seat).

  42. I think what frustrates me is the number of people who would be willing to vote Remain but are, in fact deeply opposed to the core aims and likely future political direction of the EU. Yet their vote will be taken as an endorsement for More Federalism Now

    Yes. Too many people voting for the status quo, hoping to freeze now as forever, but it just won’t happen. The EU’s full political union aim isn’t even a secret anymore, although barely anyone in the media wants to talk about it. Why aren’t we hearing Remainers being forced to justify why full political union is a good idea?

  43. @Rob

    “Sorry mate but that is never, ever going to happen”

    Britain might not be able to choose what the rest of the EU does. But if it’s out, then it at least gets some say over whether it becomes a satrapy or not..

    In a world where the EU becomes an ever smaller percentage of the world economy, more trade happens online and distance becomes increasingly less costly for transportation as global connectivity improves, it’s hardly implausible the EU will end up representing no more than a third of a trade, within the kind of political timescales we’re talking about. It’s only round about the half mark now. At that level, the incentive to continue accepting a complete humiliation of a deal is pretty low. It will be easier to renege/renegotiate a trade deal than EU membership.

    “Too many people voting for the status quo, hoping to freeze now as forever, but it just won’t happen. … Why aren’t we hearing Remainers being forced to justify why full political union is a good idea?”

    Right. Another thing that really irks me, is people who explain their opposition to leave as being because they want to “Remain and Reform”. But the latter can only be as a fig leaf for the former. Everyone wants to reform the EU and nobody but nobody thinks it is perfect – its most enthusiastic cheerleaders wish it were more federal for starters.

    But anyone who thinks the EU will suddenly kick itself into order, and other states will agree to reconstruct it along UK-friendly, more-about-trade, less-about-politics lines is either unobservant or disingenuous.

    I’m somewhat surprised that David Cameron hasn’t, upon reflection, become a Leaver himself, bearing in mind his experiences of how inflexible the response to his own “reforming” project was. I can’t get my head around what his preferred 30-year relationship with the EU would look like. He had a good opportunity to seek a formally semi-detached or associate rung of trade-focused membership status, which might arguably have been a more appropriate position for the UK, some of the Scandi countries, and in the long run maybe Ukraine, Turkey, Georgia, Cape Verde or similar. If you want to be full members in the EU, but you don’t want to be in The Project, then what do you want? Are you sure you’re in the right club?

  44. Pat,

    “No peasant’s revolt has ever succeeded without the help of some subset of the nobility. At the referendum it became clear that there was an army of peasants willing to revolt. The Brexit party is demonstrating that there still is and that a subset of the nobility have already joined them.”

    I don’t agree at all. Revolutions are mostly about new money taking on old money. The corn laws were defeated by industrialists (new money) against the old.

    Our current nobility are pro-EU, in the main. The post-war “liberals” who are mostly about TV, 1980s European industries, while the revolutionaries are about the internet. globalised industries.

  45. In a world where the EU becomes an ever smaller percentage of the world economy, more trade happens online and distance becomes increasingly less costly for transportation as global connectivity improves, it’s hardly implausible the EU will end up representing no more than a third of a trade

    This is wonderful news, so the car I wish to export to our new trading partner, Australia does not have to travel through the Suez canal past all those pirates after all ?
    I fear it does (if suhc a scheme was plausible which it is not ); and services, which are what the UK chiefly trades in are even more affected by our voluntary isolation although they can be delivered on line.
    They cannot, generally be delivered however to a country without an agreed equivalent in standards, legal safety liquidity and so on and so on, neither are high end services much purchased outside the most developed countries
    The UK in financial services and creative and more was brilliantly placed but with the EU and the USA moving to lining up its single market our global position is under threat. Our position in Europe is obviously hit

    In the long term for a developed economy like ours globally trading in services and high-end manufacturing is the growth to come and we have chosen to be side-lined- when you think we pay billions a year to be poor it is especially gratifying

  46. Newmania, why are Remainers so obsessed with money? Aside from projecting onto Brexiteers your own lust for vanished empires in which whitey bossed the little piccanninnies about, it seems to be the only thing you lot care about.

  47. “why are Remainers so obsessed with money?”

    Yes its weird isn’t it, the liberal left (which is largely synonymous with Remain) are very sniffy about money usually. Anyone who suggests that people might like to keep more of it for themselves after taxes is called greedy and grasping, and we get given paeans about community spirit and equality being worth any number of % points on GDP. Yet when it comes to Europe its all about the moolah. Any amount of national immolation under the foreigners boot is worth it if it results in an extra pound (or euro natch) in the UK’s coffers.

    Its almost as if they have no principles at all…………..

  48. @MyBurningEars May 17, 2019 at 9:19 am

    Whilst I see your points and logic, the elephant in the room is May’s EU Surrender Treaty means we do not leave.

    In fact, we’d be in a worse position than remaining as we’d be an EU colony.

    EU Bureaucrats Laugh At Their Success In Turning UK Into A Colony
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plkXHl4ixCw

  49. @The Meissen Bison May 17, 2019 at 10:08 am

    +1 imo Tory MPs are against BoJo as they’re jealous of his positivity, how he can connect with people and shrug off setbacks.

    I believe BoJo’d make an excellent PM.

  50. Received from my MP:
    Good morning

    Thank you for your email and my apologies for the delay in replying, as well as for this standard response (which I have written), both due to the fact that I have received a great many emails on this subject.

    I have voted against the draft Withdrawal Agreement three times because I don’t believe it represents the Brexit which so many people voted for. Among other things, it risks keeping us in a customs union, risks placing Northern Ireland in a different regulatory regime to the rest of the UK and maintains the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice over the UK. And we would not be able to exit these arrangements without permission of the EU. To me, this isn’t leaving.

    It isn’t a choice between accepting that deal or not leaving – there are other options. I would have preferred to leave with a deal, but not with any deal. To quote the Prime Minister, “No deal is better than a bad deal”, so perhaps, from where we are now, we now need to leave on World Trade Organisation terms and then urgently discuss a free trade arrangement with the EU.

    I wish we had left on 29th March, as the Prime Minister promised we would so many times. Yes, the Commons voted to take “no deal” off the table, but this was not a binding vote. More importantly, the Commons had triggered Article 50, which is the mechanism by which we leave the EU, and did so without any qualifications. We should have stuck to that.

    As things stand, the Prime Minister is negotiating with the Leader of the Opposition in an attempt to arrive at a position from which to move forward. And it seems that the Bill to implement this draft Agreement – even though it has not yet been approved by the House of Commons – will be brought to Parliament w/c 3rd June. I will, of course, look carefully at what is proposed, but I will oppose any suggestion of remaining in the customs union, if this is where the talks lead to, because we clearly stated in our manifesto that we would be leaving the customs union.

    I regret that elections to the European Parliament are to take place on 23rd May. I will vote Conservative, but we should have left by now. We are still in the EU because the Prime Minister agreed a further extension to our membership via Article 50. I opposed the last extension and oppose this extension. To delay our leaving just prolongs the uncertainty. It doesn’t make her draft Agreement any more acceptable and puts off the point at which we can begin to discuss future trade arrangements with the EU.

    So what I am in favour of?

    The House of Commons voted for the so-called Brady amendment some weeks ago. This said that we would endorse the draft Withdrawal Agreement, provided that the backstop were replaced. This hasn’t happened. As well as that, discussions between different sides of the issue have resulted in making the so-called Malthouse Compromise, which would also have moved things forward. This, too, has been ignored.

    So I have been in favour of proposals, as well as opposed to some others. And many of us have already made compromises. We do, however, have red lines beyond which we cannot go. We must leave the customs union and single market, as we said we would do. We must leave the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, as we said we would do. And we must stop sending billions of pounds to the EU, again as we said we would do.

    As I say, I would have preferred to leave the EU with a deal. But leave the EU we must, and that is what I shall continue to press for.

    Laurence Robertson MP

    My MP, at least, seems to be behaving honourably. It’ll be TBP for the European elections but I won’t yet decide to abandon Mr Robertson.

  51. Anna Soubry and “Change UK – they’ve changed their name, they’ve changed their logo” but they are scared of change and want no-change @~1hr

    I suppose that’s OK in today’s Alice in Wonderland politics:

    Conservatives – pro-China and abolish free speech
    Labour – workers are ignorant knuckle draggers
    Liberals – ban everything
    Greens – back to 1700 peasant lifestyle & die aged 40. Dark skinned must stay in poverty forever.

    Which leads to: Labour’s EU Election Leader Lord Adonis “If you voted Leave, don’t vote Labour”

    Don’t abstain or spoil ballot

    Vote Brexit or DUP on 23 May

  52. Re Facepainter and money–he is a greedy little cunt and his own self-interest is what runs him like the two year olds clockwork monkey he is.

    All his big talk and his anti-white hatred really disguise the little green weed of greed and self interest. For that is his essence. The rest of us can go fuck ourselves so long as he and middle class Proggie shite like him prosper.

    As for “soft” remainiacs and the lying shite they tell themselves to salve their traitors consciences –FUCK ‘EM. They are traitors all and fewer by far than you think. They wouldn’t need their bogus con-game marches and petitions otherwise.

  53. >The Tories are that nervous, sweaty guy in a zombie movie who angrily denies that he was bitten.

    Steve, I think the Tories — at least the Tory high command and the Cabinet — are more like a guy who doesn’t even know he’s been bitten by a zombie, and is wondering why everyone else is backing away from him.

  54. “The Tories are that nervous, sweaty guy in a zombie movie who angrily denies that he was bitten.”
    LOL IRL @ that.

    After 50 comments, i’ll put my tuppence in. I don;t know about death of the conservatives but the beauty of the BP is that its one issue. Harks back to its forebear the referendum party. (and how ironic that’s basically the chukka uk line now). Nigel’s once bitten twice shy and won’t allow a media narrative to paint them as extreme or fruitcakey. Set up a Ronseal party and do what it says on the tin.

  55. “I think the Tories — at least the Tory high command and the Cabinet — are more like a guy who doesn’t even know he’s been bitten by a zombie, and is wondering why everyone else is backing away from him.”

    Exactly. What the Tories have done is piss off the people who have voted for them come hell or high water since time immemorial. People like me who still turned out to vote Tory through the dark nights of the Blair years.

    Its like a relationship – there’s a degree of trust involved: ‘Vote for us, we’ll look after you and the like of you’. What they don’t realise is millions of people’s relationship with the Tory party has ended. In their minds they are no longer a ‘Tory voter’, the bonds that held them into that relationship have been obliterated. And once the relationship is over, you don’t go back, certainly not for the long term. An old times sake shag maybe, but the idea you can be counted on for anything else is dead.

    They think all they have to do is get Boris in and everyone will flock back. Some may in the short term but most won’t, and even the ones who go back will be more likely to move again in the future. So they have totally destroyed their voting bloc pretty much permanently.

  56. It’s healthy for democracy if voters are floaty and swingy. No core vote; no safe seats. Earn it, bastards.

  57. Tory MPs give two fingers to public and party members

    Ministers threaten to bring down the Government rather than accept Boris as PM

    …The ‘Stop Boris’ campaign swung into action in Westminster last night – amid warnings that some Tories could force a general election rather than give him the keys to Number 10.

    Mr Johnson is the runaway favourite to succeed Theresa May as Tory leader following a coup by backbench MPs this week that will see her step aside this summer.

    His hopes were boosted last night by a poll showing he is the Tory most likely to beat Labour.

    The exclusive Survation poll for the Daily Mail put the former foreign secretary more than 20 points ahead of Sajid Javid, his nearest rival for Theresa May’s job.

    One said: ‘Boris cannot form a government, certainly not on a No Deal platform and probably not on any other. There are at least a dozen people on our side, me included, who would be prepared to vote against him on the Queen’s Speech.

    Conservative MP Phillip Lee issued a public warning that no Tory leader campaigning on a No Deal platform could hope to govern without an election.

    Dr Lee, who is facing a deselection attempt in his Bracknell constituency after backing a second referendum, said: ‘Boris is not fit for purpose as prime minister, but this is not just about Boris the person.

    Supporters of Mr Johnson insisted that he could reinvigorate a deflated Tory party, deliver Brexit and defeat Jeremy Corbyn. Leading Eurosceptic Jacob Rees-Mogg said: ‘Boris would win back voters because he would deliver Brexit.’

    The Survation poll showed he was also the candidate with the highest ratings on the question of who would make a good prime minister and on who would be a vote winner.

    A YouGov poll for The Times yesterday found he was the first preference of 39 per cent of Tory members – far ahead of his nearest rival Dominic Raab on 13 per cent.

    But, under the terms of the Tory leadership rules, he must first persuade his fellow MPs to rank him in the top two candidates whose names will go forward for election by the party’s 125,000 members

    The detailed poll of more than 1,000 people, conducted yesterday, asked who was most likely to beat Labour under Mr Corbyn.

    Mr Johnson was streets ahead of the others on 32 per cent. His closest rival was Home Secretary Mr Javid on 11 per cent. Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt and Work and Pensions Secretary Amber Rudd were next, both with 7 per cent.

    In head-to-head contests, Mr Johnson also triumphed against every other candidate. He was 17 points ahead of Michael Gove and Dominic Raab, ten ahead of Mr Hunt and 19 ahead of Matt Hancock. Significantly, 20 per cent of Labour voters said Mr Johnson’s leadership would make them more likely to vote Tory…

    Tory MPs have a death wish or are they zombies?

  58. May trundles onto stage and software error…

    Theresa May today launched the Tory EU election campaign in a near-empty room by blasting Nigel Farage before she appeared to fluff her lines when promising to leave the EU.

    In an extraordinary moment Mrs May began to say the Conservatives ‘will’ deliver Brexit – but stumbled and stopped herself – and then said ‘can’ instead – as her despairing MEP candidates watched on….

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWzIGx5RFpg

    .
    Elsewhere, Jeremy Hunt asked why should voters vote Conservative

    Silence….um err …. “if they support Conservative policies”

    :facepalm

  59. Stu

    Brilliant.

    Laurence Robertson, Conservative MP, feels the need to reassure his constituents that he will be voting Conservative on 23rd May!

    He’s solid of course, a Leave MP throughout, and one of those (we are told) that bunged a letter in to Sir Graham at the end of last year.

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