Blimey, the self-delusion is strong here

Paul Mason:

A ComRes poll on 21 May showed that, with a clear position of remain and reform and the call for a second referendum on any deal, Labour could have beaten Farage’s Brexit party

What’s he smoking. And can I have some?

21 comments on “Blimey, the self-delusion is strong here

  1. The commentariat seems to have entered a state of advanced cognitive dissonance on an institutional scale. The convolutions of their denial of an epoch-making event in UK politics show an absence of logic and grasp of reality that would disgrace a reception class in an infants school. That there are 17.4 million voters who have said,”We Won’t Be Fooled Again” and voted accordingly has totally escaped notice. I find the notion that, “Labour supporters really want to Remain”, when TBP swept the board in the northern heartlands especially droll.

  2. “Remain and reform”. Lol, and the Left thinks the Right lives in the past. That position was a joke a decade ago.

  3. He seems to believe that simply by saying that Labour would have taken 100% of Green, SNP, Lib Dem and Cuk votes (well they’re all really cuck votes aren’t they but anyway..)

    That takes some serious derangement.

  4. ‘Do labour have a clear position on anything except “Jooooos iz baaaad”?’

    Yes. For example, they have a very clear position that Islam is beyond criticism and criticising LGBTQ+ is bad.

  5. Change UK MPs did not believe that they could remain within and reform their own party, in which they were (somewhat) prominent, senior figures. Yet they profess to believe that we should remain in the EU and reform it from within, despite four decades of utter lack of success for any such process.

  6. @KL

    To be fair, even in northern towns where there has been a high vote for leave/historically UKIP/now TBP, this hasn’t necessarily been primarily from ex Labour voters, even though there were some and this was what got the referendum result over the line. As I understand the polling evidence, the vast majority of Labour voters or former voters in London back Remain (this is also where the party draws a disproportionate number of members from) and in “traditional” Labour areas that falls to a slimmer majority.

    In those constituencies, Leave often cobbled together a winning coalition from the minority of Labour voters who preferred Leave (often the older or more working class element of their vote, as opposed to eg public sector professionals like teachers and social workers who are largely Labour Remainers), Conservative voters who prefer Leave (including the blue collar Tory vote) and people who had little past history of voting at all. But we aren’t generally talking of 90-10 victories here, mostly more like 60-40. If the 40 was coming mostly from Labour voters in places where Labour usually took at 60-70% of the general election vote, that’s still a majority of Labour voters backing Remain.

    If Labour leaders listened to their membership, which skews graduate /youngish/middle-class, they would be very heavily pro-Remain, maybe even pro-Revoke Art 50. If they listened to their voters, it would be a somewhat less strong but still overall Remain. The problem for them though is what does their marginal or wavering voter want – are they going to leak more traditional working class votes if they reject Brexit, or by failing to endorse Remain will they end up losing more of their middle class or southern vote to the Lib Dems or Greens?

    Also just have to add, as others have put before, “remain and reform” requires a LOL. And requires serious nerve to say out loud as if you mean it. Surely almost nobody who says it can believe in it, as opposed to thinking it is a way to make Remain sound more palatable to those who dislike the current state of the EU? I do get that there are reasons for staying in the EU that are attractive to some people, but I wish they could be more upfront about it. “We are going to stay in and the ongoing and irreversible evolution of the EU is going to erode our sovereignty and sense of identity, but we like it that way because we think the day of the nation state is coming to an overdue end, big global problems require coordination at a more central level and that trade will benefit from a system of laws and regulation worked out in Brussels instead of our own Parliament.” As views go that would be fair enough even if I disagree with it myself. The fact they don’t dare couch things in those terms is an indication they know people on the whole don’t really want this stuff, or even if they edged towards Remain it was often from fear of disruption not love of the EU. And it’s that disingenuous aspect that really rankles me.

    The fact they feel the need to sell it with vacuous slogans like “remain and reform”, as if somehow the evidence suggested we rule the roost in Brussels and can just push them into adopting whatever structure and priorities suits the Brits, shows that really they know they’ve lost the battle for people’s hearts and that most voters have no inclination to be part of The Project. So they’ll just have to be threatened or cajoled or lied to until they submit.

  7. The EU “Project” is about creating a super state and creates crises that enhance EU power – the migration crisis shoud have been dealt with by closing the borders to Greece and Italy as they had failed their obligations to the other members of Schengen – and certainly should not have resulted in Operation Sophia, also known as the EU taxicab service. The EU used this to demand a EU border force.

    The Euro created the crises in the southern periphery and is being used as a lever to demand fiscal union – never mind the costs for all the little people in the South. It suits the Germans since the artificially weak Euro helps their exports.

    There’s no chance of any reform to what is a fundamentally flawed organization.

  8. MyBurningEars
    I think it’s true that Remainers in general have a very poor idea of how the EU works and its real aims.
    I agree that they have no real love for the EU as it actually is, they have a love of the warm and fuzzy togetherness which they falsely think the EU embodies and a dislike of the false image which is presented by the media of those who most vociferously oppose the EU.
    Of course they also like the goodies apparently gifted to us by the EU, without wondering for a second whether we could afford even more goodies with our own money if we weren’t having a large chunk skimmed off by the EU, but that’s just the icing.
    Before the run up to the referendum, I doubt that many suddenly-fervent Remain voters gave much serious thought as to whether or not the EU was a good or bad thing from one decade to the next.

  9. At the referendum: I heard nobody – nobody – defend the actual existing EU.

    They either defended
    (i) Europe, as in we’ll never be allowed to listen to Beethoven again if we leave, or
    (ii) NATO, as in the EU has brought us decades of peace, or
    (iii) Neverland, as in an EU that will magically reformed to suit us.

    No bastard defended the true EU because, presumably, they know that few people like the true EU. Hence, since (i) – (iii) didn’t seem likely to do the trick, Project Fear was used i.e. on the morning after the referendum a Leave vote would ruin the economy, close the NHS, make all your hair fall out and, you sir, make your todger shrink, and you madam, make your breasts sag.

    Lying fuckers the lot of them, and I say the with considered academic rigour.

  10. Good arguments for staying in:

    1. It would have made most of Corbyn’s plans for nationalisation impossible.
    2. It’s good for economic growth (good for the elites)
    3. It makes moving around Europe easier (good for the elites)

    Good arguments for leaving

    1. The project is horribly flawed and leaving will lower negative impact of the likely break up.
    2. It’s bad for equality (low skilled locals who are dependent on state do badly due to lots of EU migrants)

  11. Good arguments for staying in:

    1. It would have made most of Corbyn’s plans for nationalisation impossible.

    Much as I despise Corbyn and all he stands for, that, for me, was one of the reasons for leaving. If they can stop Corbyn they can stop the reforms I would like to see.

  12. There is also the issue of the imbalance between the consistent Remain claims that Leave lied repeatedly and massively therefore the result is invalid, and total lack of examination of the opposite side, being the repeated and massive lies of Remain.

  13. “remain and reform” requires a LOL.

    That’s why I essentially voted Leave And Reform. Leave completely, and rebuild our relationship with Europe and the EU from scratch. Sometimes you’ve bodged your code/machine/building/novel so much the only answer is to chuck it away and start again.

  14. jgh

    One of my favourite quote from the Mythical Man-Month: “build one to throw away, you will anyway.”

  15. @ MBE
    North-east – difficult to get that result without “Leave” coming predominently from Labour voters since farmers would vote “Remain”

  16. @john77

    On average I think it’s true that the majority of Labour voters support Remain even across the more traditionally working-class or industrial Labour seats, but there are a couple of places where that might not be so. For the north east, don’t forget the very large pool of regular non-voters though. Not a lot of point in voting in a fiefdom, but more of them did come out at the referendum. If there’s a second ref, a lot of us will be crossing our fingers hoping for a reprise of that performance. Will be squeaky bum time if turnout up there is low…

  17. MBE–Way off beam. There is a very strong hatred for the EU amongst large sections of the former Labour voters. And that includes hard core my Dad voted Labour types. Try mixing with some instead of reading leftist and remainiac poll shite. Migrants and middle class WOMI scum are the remain crew. Migrant numbers are a growing danger but treasonous middle class shite can do little on their own. Too few.

  18. There is a very strong hatred for the EU amongst large sections of the former Labour voters.

    Got to agree with Mr. Ecks.

    Lots of Northerners might support Labour because “My dad / granddad were a miner and would turn in his grave if I voted Tory”, etc., but there is no love of the EU like there is with the Islington Commies.

    Basic view in the North is that the Westminster lot (of all political persuasions) are a bunch of namby, pamby, Southern shandy drinking liberal poof’s and the EU lot are the same but smelly, garlic eating “fareners” as well.

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