57 comments on “Very wise Tom, very wise

  1. Mildly related question: Which would be worse for readers here: Brexit followed by a Corbyn win, or no Brexit and the Tories retaining (not sure how) power?

  2. As a slightly askance answer, Mr S, it used to be my view that the priorities in domestic politics were Brexit, then the destruction of the Tories.

    But it turns out I might have got that the wrong way around.

  3. Scum double down. News at 11.

    When will we get someone in the Westminster shithole who will double down on the long overdue punishment of the Marxist corpse’s rotted ballbags like Watson which infest the treason-soaked rubbish skip?

  4. We should let it happen. Let them do it.

    There’s going to come a point where people will start twatting the likes of Grieve, and witnesses won’t come forward, and juries will refuse to convict.

    Seriously, I’d like bodies at this point. Let every MP who is trying to thwart Brexit fear who will come in the night for them. Create a generation of MP who never try it again.

  5. Drew Jenner on Quora:

    How a country full of otherwise mostly sensible, kind, considerate, hard working, compassionate and pragmatic people can have such cretinous, greedy, self serving, ineffective to the pint of laziness and absurdly ideological morons as politicians in Parliaments and Assemblies.

    This is a country that in living memory won two world wars leading to the reconstruction of literally dozens of new nations and forms of Government (legislative bodies, heads of state, currencies, border maps, so many basics of a Nation State); dismantled an Empire without any major independence Wars whilst negotiating new governments (ditto) and trade agreements for dozens of those newly independent nations; fought a Cold War leading to the fall of the USSR and the creation of over 20 new sovereign nations to have diplomacy and trade with; intervened in former Yugoslavia and the creation of yet more new nations. Devolved a Parliament to Scotland, Aaemblies to Wales, NI and many Government controls …now these things are difficult and complicated.

    Brexit by comparison, isn’t THAT complicated; no change of Government, no change of Constitution, no new Head of State, no change of legislative body, no new currency, the vast majority of people in the U.K., who don’t travel to Europe very often if at all, wouldn’t notice any difference in day to day life. Of course it has complications but compared to what’s gone before it’s NOT complicated.

    It’s just not a Generational change, it’s just not a big crisis, its just not the Big Deal so many make it out to be. Its mostly just a lot of bureaucratic changes on rules, regulations and a change from one form of these to the other…some may add complications but others will make things easier, hey things change like that all the time…so what?

    Utterly defeats our pontificating politicians though.

    How the Hell did this nation make it through the 20thC and the real complications that posed?

  6. @Bloke on M4

    Have to confess I’m coming to that conclusion. We had a referendum which they set up in the expectation of bovine acceptance. This didn’t happen and for the last three years by foul means and foul the have been looking to circumvent it.

    They are stirring forces they don’t understand and won’t be able to control. And not just here. Who knows what will arise, but whatever does I can’t see it being pretty.

    At least we’re not in the euro lunacy. Would a “vassal” state within their sphere but with a separate currency be a tempting haven for wealth and company HQs when it does go tits?

  7. @BoM4: “There’s going to come a point where people will start twatting the likes of Grieve, and witnesses won’t come forward, and juries will refuse to convict.”

    Except … that won’t happen. Most people are decent folk, they aren’t the Left. And the Left know it.

  8. Edward – if the tories were destroyed they’d simply come back. Perhaps with a different name – the conservation party. Certainly with different people as candidates. Obviously not the best people to stand in elections as the best people for the job will never choose to stand in election.

    And get votes.

    Voters want choice, if they don’t get it they can stay home.
    Voting may have been a privilege a hundred years ago, these days its more a chore.

  9. Except … that won’t happen. Most people are decent folk, they aren’t the Left. And the Left know it.

    It only takes one.

    There’s a thing in psychology (Following the crowds), that if someone does something then it must be ok (even if it isn’t really).

    It only takes one person to lose their cool and smack one of these self-serving gits and it will probably open the door to a load more (cf milkshake attacks were nigh-on unheard of then massive spate of them) – avalanches being caused by only one snowflake sort of thing.

    Add into that the British way of tolerating a lot in a stoic manner, before snapping, and I think that the mood has been massively mis-judged by the politicians.

    Coming soon: Civil war 2: the re-civil warring

  10. The Scottish cock-rot has little chance of success in the London Courts–the law is actually clear enough for once. If it doses the scum get back 4 days and even more people see the plotters on the job.

  11. Edward Lud

    “……….. it used to be my view that the priorities in domestic politics were Brexit, then the destruction of the Tories.”

    Destroying the Conservative Party is a necessary act; Tories, I would like to keep. Unfortunately, there aren’t many of them around.. they’re party has become infested by Whigs.

    For some time I have been expecting a major realignment of UK politics back into its ‘natural’ constituent parts of Tories, Whigs and the General Rabble. The Tories barely exist in parliament, but are abundant outside. The Whigs infest all the main parties and are the default of the establishment. The General Rabble is represented by the Corbynistas and the SNP.

    Unfortunately, our host is also a Whig and believes in all that Enlightenment hooey.

  12. Pretty easy isn`t it; do you want to :
    1 Leave the EU on a no deal basis
    or
    2 Stay as you are

    If one side wishes to suggest they can get a fab deal by threatening to shoot ourselves in the face – let them do so.(lie )
    No doubt there will be another swarm of Syrians hogging NHS beds( lie ) and being rude to little old ladies …etc- Turkey joining (lie) obliged to bail out EU banks (lie)
    Plenty of people still believe the bus – (lie -staggering isn`t it )

    On the remain side we can only ask them to stop lying, point out the lies and try to elevate the process into some sort of informed decision

  13. Facepainting Fuckwit–For what must be the millionth time you drugged up EU-rotted ballbag–WRITE YOUR LYING SHITE IN ENGLISH.

    As vile as your garbage is, rambling word-salad echoing up from inside a booze bottle just wastes time. You are already a waste of space and oxygen so try not to waste any more natural resources.

    No idea what you were trying to say so fuck off to Hell on general principles.

  14. So Boris has ruled out a pact with the Brexit Party (with insult) and is openly talking about bailing on the backstop.

    There is no plan.

    Yup, we’re done here.

  15. Pretty easy isn`t it; do you want to :
    1 Leave the EU on a no deal basis
    or
    2 Stay as you are

    eh?

    Our current position is that we’re leaving on Oct 31st. This was legislated and enacted when triggering Article 50.
    So 1 is the same as 2

    Good choices.

    It looks like you’ve finally come to your senses and joined the leave crowd. 🙂

  16. PJF – bit premature (no election has been scheduled yet) and the DUP are making positive cooing noises. Plenty more twists and turns to this soap opera.

  17. JuliaM,

    “Except … that won’t happen. Most people are decent folk, they aren’t the Left. And the Left know it.”

    A referendum is the will of the people. The basic rule is that if you lose, you spend about 24 hours being mad pissed off about it, drown your sorrows and move on. If you’re going to go against accepted behaviour, if you’re going to fight dirty, so will we.

    Would I let Grieve die in a ditch? No, I don’t think I would. But if I saw someone robbing him, would I intervene? No. Would I willingly give up my time to identify the robber and convict them? No. Would I offer to buy him a ticket? No.

    I would normally do these things. But as he won’t do the honourable thing of either accepting the vote or having a by-election, as he is trying to rob me of my democratic rights by dishonourable means, I’m going to do likewise.

    And if more of us treated him like this. If waiters ignored him, if pubs and shops barred him, if people refused to employ his children, and all manner of other things, we would solve this in a matter of weeks. His life would become so intolerable that he’d give in.

  18. Turkey joining (lie)

    The EU promised to give Turkey full, visa-free access to the EU in 2016. (Because there’s a desperate kebab shortage in the land formerly known as Germany)

  19. I’d watch Grieve die in a ditch. Well, I’d spend a minute or two on it, then I’d walk on. I’m a busy man, with a full diary, so … yunno. Same with the rest of them.

  20. Get the feeling they sense blood in the water and are creeping out from the shadows, not even pretence anymore just outright Remain.
    Also showing up the stark divisions in Labour.
    Maybe the plan is to give them enough rope to hang themselves, if so seems to be working.

  21. As far as I am aware Boris didn’t say it. A little shite on Twatter called Tom Newton Dunn says that a senior Tory source–who is of course nameless –says it.

    Really–and likewise the equally vague backstop cockrot. And talk of Johnson trying to deal with 20 shithouses he just sacked last week.

    Unless you have film of BoJo saying it –then remain agit-prop trying to split the vote.

  22. The “senior source” says Farage and Aaron Banks aren’t fit to be in gov’t.

    Very fucking odd that a senior Tory would mention Aaron Banks with Farage as Banks isn’t in the TBP. He is Leave EU which is not a Party and couldn’t be in any pact anyway.
    A senior Tory would know that–but some hate filled lying remainaic puke who spits at the sound of both names might not or couldn’t grasp the distinction.

    You need to sharpen up PJF–and stop spreading remain shite for them.

  23. You need to sharpen up PJF…

    Undoubtedly, Mr Ecks.

    Since it’s been hours now and the remain shite still hasn’t been challenged by No. 10, so do they.

  24. Get the feeling they sense blood in the water and are creeping out from the shadows, not even pretence anymore just outright Remain.

    This is why I’m certain they’ll try to pull a VONC and form a makeshift unpopulist government after parliament resumes. They won’t risk allowing us to vote in an election until they’ve cancelled/indefinitely postponed Brexit.

    50/50 on the Supreme Court doing the right thing, the judiciary is just another corrupt institution that people no longer trust.

    The most important thing is that Boris absolutely must not resign in any circumstances. Losing is a time-honoured conservative tradition, but you can’t do anything by surrendering power to your enemies, and voters won’t thank him for handing over the government to Jim Henson’s Creature Workshop.

    We’ve got to brass it out, Danny. Danny brass it out!

  25. “It’s just not a Generational change, it’s just not a big crisis, its just not the Big Deal so many make it out to be. Its mostly just a lot of bureaucratic changes on rules, regulations and a change from one form of these to the other…some may add complications but others will make things easier, hey things change like that all the time…so what?”

    The reason for the utter mind bending lunacy on display is because this has become about far more than being in the EU or not. There are practical arguments on both sides, whichever way one decides it the world isn’t going to end. There’s no more reason for the losers of the referendum to throw democracy out of the window than if they’d lost a GE (tho it is noticeable that the reaction in 2015 to the unexpected Tory majority rather showed the way the wind was blowing – who has a massive violent protest march a few days after an election that you just lost, unless you have very little care for democracy at all?)

    No this has become about who is to govern – the liberal political class, who are the vast majority of MPs and who fill all the powerful and important jobs within the State and third sector (and probably a hefty proportion of those in control of large listed corporations), or the People, via the ballot box. The political class have become used to being the winners of the political race, due to them having stitched up all the major parties into a nice little 3 way competition where it matters little as to who wins, except that the speed of travel varies slightly from party to party. The direction never varies though. No one is going to suddenly reverse immigration, or cut taxes to 10% across the board, or slash State spending to the bone. Or do anything that they don’t agree with, regardless of what the voters think. Vast swathes of voters are entirely disenfranchised, entirely on purpose because their views are regarded as beyond the pale and thus may never be given a voice with the political system (think Gordon Browns ‘bigoted woman’ comment)
    So everything was hunky dory. But along comes the EU referendum and suddenly everyone’s vote counts equal, and out of the woodwork crawl millions of voters who never vote (because no one in the political system represents them) and deliver the political class a massive bloody nose. This is an affront to their sense of power and position – don’t these proles know who we are? We run this country! Who do they think they are telling us to leave the EU? Not a chance. If we give them that what else might they think they can get via voting for it? No, Brexit must be stuck back in the box because the alternative is too awful to consider – we might lose our power and privileged positions.

    So Brexit is now a power struggle, of fundamental proportions. The Remainers know exactly what is at stake, I hope those in the Brexit camp do likewise.

  26. PJF I’m sure the Duke of Wellington at Waterloo (not that I’m comparing Boris to him) instead directing and positioning his men and overseeing the preparations would have been much better employed riding around the battlefield seeking to quash all possible negative rumours the French might have spread.

    Saying “no we didn’t say that” puts you on a back foot makes you look like a reactive fool.

    There was an old Geo Carpenter harassment trick of getting a piece of toilet paper with a large gob of peanut butter on it and sticking it to the back of the harrasee’s pants at a party so as to look as if he had had a little toilet accident. As Geo then pointed out even if he discovered it and tried to explain it was peanut butter etc–that just left the fellow even more embarrassed. Stonewall.

  27. Saying “no we didn’t say that” puts you on a back foot makes you look like a reactive fool.

    Saj was on the telly only a couple of days ago refusing to rule out a pact. Today it’s an “anonymous source” pooh-poohing it. Meh.

    It’s premature to even worry about it. If Boris gets us out on the 31st, The Brexit Party will be irrelevant. If he doesn’t, or we’re half out, all sorts of other calculations come into play.

    Nota Benny, the public generally doesn’t like electoral pacts (they don’t exactly have a happy record of success in British politics), so there’s a touch of magical thinking in the idea that everything will be jubbly if only Boris and Nige team up like Tango and Cash.

    Nothing much we plebs can do about it right now, which feeds anxiety. But at least the phony war is over. Feels like a moment of truth approaching.

    In the dark glens, beside the pale-green sea lochs
    Men long for news.

  28. @John P September 11, 2019 at 11:01 am

    Thanks

    .
    @Jim September 11, 2019 at 6:32 pm

    +1 Good summary

    .
    @Mr Ecks September 11, 2019 at 6:42 pm

    Duke of Wellington resigned Tory whip yesterday, he’s a cross bencher now

  29. Rem acu tetigisti, Jim. Rem acu tetigisti.

    Indeed, rarely has a rem been so comprehensively tetigisted. Or acued*.

    *my schoolboy Latin is, in my defence, over 30 years distant.

  30. “So Brexit is now a power struggle, of fundamental proportions. The Remainers know exactly what is at stake, I hope those in the Brexit camp do likewise.”

    Fundamentally, do we live in a Democracy or a Technocracy staffed by corrupt wankers?

  31. “50/50 on the Supreme Court doing the right thing, the judiciary is just another corrupt institution that people no longer trust.”

    According to the Coffee House Podcast, Fraser Nelson IIRC, we could have a situation where the prorogation was illegal under Scottish law but legal under English law. In which case Parliament will have to be recalled.

    If this happens it will prove Brian Rix is alive and well and writing judgments for the Supreme Court.

  32. BiND – IANAL (didn’t want to sell my soul to Al Pacino), but I wouldn’t have thought so. Sounds like the Speccy is proving my middle aged moan that the lack of quality Brexit coverage has created a selectively permeable vacuum that only sucks in bullshit.

    The Supreme Court would either overrule or uphold the Scottish decision (as it’s the superior court). It’s a question of the British constitution, not Scots law, and this sort of thing has been tested a few times over the years since 1707 in the HoL. In the event of a conflict, English law wins every time.

    If by some weird lawyerlogic Nelson’s prediction of Schrodinger’s Constitution comes to pass it still wouldn’t matter – Parliament would just have to make sure the Palace of Westminster doesn’t move
    up the road to Jocklandia. Scottish writ doesn’t run to the Thames, however much Ian Blackford runs his mouth.

  33. @BiND

    Why would parliament have to be recalled?

    Isn’t Parliament sovereign (as granted by the people) So therefore superior to Scots law and can thus override it?

  34. Kwasi Kwarteng on the Andrew Neil Show discussing Brexit & the Brexit Party

    Kwasi stayed calm, but again raised spectre of May’s EU Surrender Treaty minus NI Backstop being resurrected.

    @PJF Then says “No pact with Farage and Brexit Party”

    No Deal dead?

    EU-written ]Withdrawal Agreement is toxic from start to finish

  35. Is the aptly named Kwasi Bojo’s spokesman? Or is he just running his gob? Remember many Tory “loyalists” are also remain but don’t have the balls to take the British people or Tory whips on

    PJF may have said that but he isn’t much if anything in the Tories. Remember –today is remain– stymed in the House of Traitors– trying more psyche war with bullshit rumours of which we have had 4 so far today.

    If Boris put up Treasons turd pie–backstop or no–he finishes the Tories and possibly puts Jizza in–tho’ that gets less likely all the time.

  36. Bercow really is an obnoxious supercilious toad:
    <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxWmrULextUBercow loses it after announcing his resignation

    He then paused briefly with MPs heard in the background accusing him of being a “bully” and one saying “come on John, have some dignity”, before the Speaker raged: “Don’t tell me young man from a sedentary position what I can and cannot say.

    “If you’re not interested leave the chamber, I’m not remotely interested in your petty fogging objection, countered inelegantly from a sedentary position.

    “The position is as I’ve described it and quite frankly young man, you can like it or lump it. The right honourable gentleman has obtained the leave of the House, people will understand that as far as the Speaker is concerned his job is to stand up for the rights of the legislature.

    “And never have been, am not and never will be in the business of being bossed around by some footling member of the executive branch.”

    ROFL – Peter Bone really pricked Bercow’s bubble, his face went bright red – shame it didn’t go further.

    More
    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/john-bercows-contempt-for-brexiteers/ – by a Left Brexiter

  37. Crazi didn’t seem that controversial–he ruled out the backstop–which was one of remains bullshit specials today. As for WA minus backstop –he didn’t say anything that suggested that was the plan. I suspect Johnson is wrong about a deal and the EU will offer fuck all.

    Too many Brexit supporters are going off half cock based on rumours. Wait until you have facts–otherwise you are helping remain shite drive wedges into our ranks. I understand nobody trusts the Tories but Reagan’s dictum needs to be reversed: “First verify–and if it turns out to be lying leftist shit–extend trust a while longer”.

  38. Actually be fun to see Supreme Court rule unlawful then have them all complain they can’t be recalled because it’s convention season, maybe that would stop the BBC saying 5 weeks which is disingenuous at the best

  39. PJF may have said that but he isn’t much if anything in the Tories.

    I’m nought in the Tories, Mr Ecks. Nevertheless, anyone who is ought in the Tories has yet to poo-poo the “remain shite” I highlighted. And now (more remain shite?) it seems Boris is looking at bringing back Hammond and co. All part of the plan, I’m sure.

    Saying “no we didn’t say that” puts you on a back foot makes you look like a reactive fool.

    Sometimes.

    If the Duke of Wellington was seeing a story put about by his own side that there was no way he would ally with the Prussians (and that Blücher was a git with an ugly wife), well, that would probably be one of the other times.

  40. Actually be fun to see Supreme Court rule unlawful then have them all complain they can’t be recalled because it’s convention season, maybe that would stop the BBC saying 5 weeks which is disingenuous at the best

    Their argument is that MPs normally vote on whether or not to prorogue for convention season, its not a government issue.

  41. PJF–What is your source for the “return of Hammond” cockrot–because that was another one of yesterdays remain-spread rumours.

    As for Waterloo–no it isn’t. So long as Wellington/Blucher knew what the plan was the rest was irrelevant.

    BoJo does need to drop the passivity and start hitting back against a gang of expert liars.

  42. It was the Telegraph headline overnight, Mr Ecks. Story still up and in the Mail too. So is the one ruling out a pact with TBP. Number 10 is ready enough to correct the Yellowhammer misinformation. It’s not as if they’ve lost their phones.

    The tactical or strategic advantage of leaving these stories unchallenged is mysterious. After this length of time one might even reasonably conclude that they are accurate.

  43. I can’t say as to that PJF–but there seems to be no definite source as to which “Tory spokesmen” unleashed this crap. Who/where/when and exactly what was said will be needed to convince me. Plus the result of these actions would be disaster for the Tory Party and Johnson personally. If he wishes to go down in history as an EU agent he could have done it with much less trouble than he has. Nor is raising the British peoples hopes to then turn traitor a tactic designed to diminish Brexit support.

    It has been said many times on this very blog that modern journos are lazy bastards who repeat gossip or re-cycle press releases rather than investigate.

    As for Yellowhammer–it might be a different dept trying to correct misinformation–in this world even the organised have confusion in their ranks.

    In general it is a bad idea to seem to follow the enemy around reacting to his moves–studied indifference seems the best tactic.

  44. Let me clarify–studied indiff to the enemies gambits matched with active retaliation and counter action in other areas of the battle. Johnson is far too passive it seems to me. Even if it is a sideshow he needs to be hitting back–so the EU scum aren’t making all the running.

  45. VIA Raedwald it seems that Scottish Plod is advising Scots to prepare “Bug Out Bags” in case of a No Deal (=Zombie Apocolypse). This is receiving wide-spread derision and is thus one of remain’s gambits to have back-fired on them. It shows however that the entire SNP Establishment up there has been mobilised on behalf of the scum of remain and their EU masters.

    The Judgeboy Capers are just another facet of this.

  46. Bloody hell, chaps.

    When Mr Ecks (love ya mate) is the voice of moderation and restraint, you want to have a look at yourselves.

    Ecksy is right. The Conservatives are still infested with appeasers hoping the PM will fail. Just today, ConHome published two articles urging Brexiters to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. That’s no reason for despair, it just means we gotta ro-o-oll with the punches to get to what’s real.

    This is a highly volatile and fluid political situation and if you can’t be cool like Fonzies, at least try for a stiff upper lip like those magnificent Welsh chaps did in ZULU.

  47. “This is a highly volatile and fluid political situation”

    Travolta said just that in “Broken Arrow” Steve.

    Also it seems now that the High Court have given the Miller/Major team up the finger. Declaring that Piro’ing (sic) is not the business of the Courts. Which leaves the Scots Beaks even further out there.

    Does anybody think M&M “celebrated” their alliance?

    Also somebody I know was telling me about Vine’s show on R2 yesterday- I can’t listen as I can’t afford a new radio every day. It seems JV was pushing –on “rumour” day– exactly the impression the rumours were intended to create–“Is Johnson strong in public but weak and vacillating behind the scenes?”. Talk about co-incidence.

    Talk about the BBC earning its billion Euros a year.

  48. This is a highly volatile and fluid political situation and if you can’t be cool like Fonzies, at least try for a stiff upper lip like those magnificent Welsh chaps did in ZULU.

    It’s ok, we can natter here and it won’t change the outcome (or each other’s minds). Sorry if my own realisation that Boris and co aren’t interested in a real Brexit (and probably aren’t even capable of a Brino) causes a sour note. There’s still a chance the turmoil will allow us to drop out by default.

    Speaking of cool like Fonzie
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ahxG3iPeVcU

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