‘N’ you can bugger off ‘n’all Honeybuns

including nationalising the endowments of the hugely wealthy public schools.

Theft, pure and simple.

Not that it will work of course, because nationalisation requires full compensation at market value. So government has to go buy those endowments. Which, given that they’re piles of cash and investments means just swapping one pile for another. But then lefties and even basic sums, eh?

43 comments on “‘N’ you can bugger off ‘n’all Honeybuns

  1. If there’s anything keeping private schools alive, it’s this constant refrain that there’s advantage to be gained from it.

    The mainstream media is full of the privately educated? And? What are all these young Guardian writers making? There’s lots of private educated in parliament? And how many of the privately educated poured time and money into politics and didn’t make it? And it’s not bad money, but a senior job at Tesco will pay more.

    I got another anecdote this week. A family that’s been pouring money into private school is taking their boy to an ex-polytechnic. £100K+ and you end up at a poly.

  2. ‘Not that it will work of course, because nationalisation requires full compensation at market value.’

    I disagree Tim, my thoughts are they will
    Look at the Arguments of the likes of Murphy and assign what they deem ‘fair value’ which will be well below market value – lest we forget you are dealing with some of the most vicious criminals in British history. To quote from ‘The Treasure of the Sierra Madre’

    ‘law, we don’t need no stinkin’’ law’

    I have no doubt that Corbinites like Ryan will look to steal these ‘spoils of privilege’ and indeed may not even odder any compensation. Did Mugabe or Obiang compensate landowners or business owners whose property they expropriated?

  3. No no no tim, she means theft.

    And then a wealth tax which will go on rising until we’re all living under sheets of corrugated iron.

  4. If there’s anything keeping private schools alive, it’s this constant refrain that there’s advantage to be gained from it.

    A classical education is tremendously comforting when one is forced to use public transportation.

  5. “that they might buy advantage for their own children”

    That seems to be crux of it. By making your kid more able, you put them at an advantage over someone less able.

    But at least you have the “more able” bit at the end of the day.

    If elitism doesn’t lead to greater ability then yeah ok there’s no utilitarian loss to society doing away with its institutions. But the onus is on those who want to do away with it to establish, prove that. Frances doesn’t not by a long shot.

    A side note- they’re acting as if Britain is a closed system. If chinese millionaire parents send their kids to Stowe for 36 weeks a year, don’t think British ones won’t send theirs to shanghai, or Geneva. And then you have a problem when they return home and hoover up the top postitions.

    Sure you can nobble a few institutions that are totemic of elitism, but you can’t nobble (without tyrannical control) parental child improvement efforts. It’s hard wired.

  6. I’m guessing / hoping the key difference is that we are still a country with the rule of law. Much of the Labour wet dream wishlist will face UK or EU legal challenge. This is no small part of the reason why the Jezziah is a leaver. Can’t renationalise shit while in the EU.

  7. Patrick

    I’m sensing a real aggression amongst the Corbinites though – my guess is they’ll be trawling the dark web for evidence the judiciary might have done something ‘transphobic’ like assertiing there are only two genders or something back in the 1960s – a serious offence that they will use to ‘nobble’ them and introduce government along the lines of Zimbabwe and Venezuela. In terms of whether we are currently under the rule of law, that’s very much an ‘open question’ given the thriving activities of the Corbinites Greens and SNP (for example) and their quango empire…..

  8. “nationalisation requires full compensation at market value”: says who?

    Were local authorities or charities compensated when their hospitals were stolen in 1948? (That is a question by the way, not a bit of rhetoric. I’ve never seen a comment on the matter.)

    “Let’s steal the Guardian Trust money first”: the Scott Trust no longer exists. It was replaced by The Scott Trust Ltd as a tax dodge.

    “A classical education is tremendously comforting when one is forced to use public transportation.” Quite: you can explain to your captivated fellow passengers what “omnibus” means.

    I dare say that the Gruaniad lads and lassies wouldn’t mind Trust money being stolen from public schools or Oxbridge colleges but I bet the writers wouldn’t want money stolen from their family trusts. Oh dear no.

  9. In Whitby we weren’t compensated for having our hospital taken off us, and we still had five years of the mortgage to pay! We also lost the gas, electicity and waterworks.

    “compensation at market value”? That’s not the plan. Complete expropriation is the plan. Or, as our host succinctly put it – theft.

  10. I read that the proportion of privately educated Hooray Henriettas at the BBC is 2x the average for all industries, 1/3 of BBC management was at private school and 1/2 of its high paid employees.

    While we’re at this envy and theft, why is there no wealth tax levied on private homes with several more bedrooms than the number of occupants – surely using a room solely for a model railway set is grotesque wealth that should be taxed punitively?

  11. Whoa there, BF, that’s a proposal that needs to be trialled before being rolled out across the UK – maybe somewhere flat so that eco-investigators can monitor by bicycle.

  12. “Let’s steal the Guardian Trust money first”: the Scott Trust no longer exists. It was replaced by The Scott Trust Ltd as a tax dodge.

    Let’s steal it anyway

  13. Steve,

    “A classical education is tremendously comforting when one is forced to use public transportation.”

    You don’t even get that any longer. By law, they still have to waste kids time on sky fairy studies and PSHE (sex education and woke shit), and most of what they do is pretty close to the national curriculum. They have independent inspectors, and they’re cut from the same cloth as the rest of the education establishment.

    You’d be better off putting your kids in front of Jordan Peterson’s YouTube channel and reading them The Art of War as a bedtime story.

  14. Apparently 7% of British parents are so convinced that there is a case for private education that they are willing to pay for it, rather than accept the free product supplied by the state. I wonder how much that percentage would rise if parents got a rebate from the state for not using its product?
    As for trust funds, they should not exist. Though unwinding the system will be difficult. How sure are we that the very late Mr. Scott agrees with what appears in today’s Guardian? Trust funds tie up resources either for the benefit of incompetents or to enable continuance of a project regardless of whether it continues to be useful, and with a high probability of being used not as intended.
    No, I’m not in favour of theft, just the transfer of funds to some extant person or body which takes exactly the same responsibility for its use and management as anyone else does. And no, the government doesn’t count.

  15. BoM4 – I reckon R.E. teachers have done more to spread atheism than the collective popularity of Richard Dawkins and fedoras ever could.

  16. Vaguely reminded of a student protest at Harvard, back in the early 2000s.

    The students were demanding that the managers of the endowment fund should be remunerated on longer term performance contracts, bonus payments held in escrow for a few years with potential clawbacks, that sort of thing.

    Chatting to one of the guys there, it turned out that they already were, and had been for quite some time.

  17. Steve,

    Religion has generally been its own worst enemy. They have thrown away the magic, splendour and what is sacred.

  18. Firstly to get away with nationalisation the UK will have to exit the EU. But Labour says it will negotiate a new good deal for the UK then campaign to remain in the EU. I suppose if their collective IQ makes it back into double figures and they leave the EU they might bring in a new law to abolish compensation. Or the armed forces stage a coup d’etat and common sense is reinstalled to government.

  19. ” Or the armed forces stage a coup d’etat and common sense is reinstalled to government.”

    Providing they shoot their officers first. Or you’re just replacing like with like.

  20. ‘Years of austerity have highlighted the resources gap between the highly funded private sector and the starved state sector.’

    She lies. State schools are ‘highly funded.’ Private schools manage money vastly better. Cost per pupil around here is HALF what the state spends. Private school teachers are paid way less, yet they are still quite happy to be doing what they were doing.

    The state MISspends money on education. Ryan wants the state to misspend someone else’s money, too.

    ‘When many working-class children don’t have basic equipment in class, the dominance of elite schools feels even more obscene.’

    We had little equipment (sic) when I was in school. A good education is not dependent on ‘equipment.’

    As Tim said, this is simply a scheme to take someone else’s money. The problem with the communists is that you can only seize wealth ONCE, then it is no more. Smash and grab private schools’ money, buy a microscope, then next year, you are in the exact same spot you started in, but there are no more wealthy to finance anything. Welcome to dystopia.

    Non-profit private schools don’t pay taxes (U.S.). For-profit private schools pay taxes. Ryan provides no evidence that British private schools aren’t being run as non-profits. What Gove said and a Guardian article are not evidence. Her premise is wrong. Let her first provide the name of a private school that is not paying taxes and is actually a for profit business. That is covered by existing law.

    This seems no more than Ryan’s petty gripe that she didn’t get to go to private school. So DESTROY THEM!

  21. BoM4,
    The waste was the 100k, and of course, that’s a relatively cheap private education. Nowt wrong with Polys, or ex Polys, in terms of the education you get, if you choose the right subjects. Engineering, for instance. But then you can’t study ballet dancing at most Russell Group unis, so point (partly) taken!
    Incidentally, a degree in Engineering at Poly / ex-Poly probably means you were taught by engineers – it certainly doesn’t at many older Unis, where you get taught by nutters who couldn’t hold down a real job..

  22. Private education is not all bad.
    State education – my big sister had as much homework in 5 years as I did in one night.
    Her school and my school had similar facilities, my school had much smaller class sizes after the 2nd year.

    I got the far better education and qualifications. She got one CSE.

    Several of my classmates run businesses, a couple are quite high up in multinational businesses with maybe time to go higher. And one is negotiating a Brexit deal with some Barnier chappie.
    Plus multiple consultants and GPs….

  23. “Providing they shoot their officers first. Or you’re just replacing like with like.”

    Most army officers below colonel are thoroughly sound. Most colonels too. Granted you would have to lose a few generals etc.

  24. Ryan examines the evidence and comes up with the wrong conclusion.

    It is clear that state schools should be PRIVATIZED! MAKE ‘EM ALL PRIVATE!; get rid of the state schools.

  25. Excavator Man,

    “The waste was the 100k, and of course, that’s a relatively cheap private education. Nowt wrong with Polys, or ex Polys, in terms of the education you get, if you choose the right subjects. Engineering, for instance. But then you can’t study ballet dancing at most Russell Group unis, so point (partly) taken!”

    I’m not looking down on polys. But he isn’t going to poly because he likes the course there. He’s going because he didn’t get the grades for anything better.

    Why is someone only getting Poly grades after spending £100K on private education? Maybe he was thick and they pushed him higher, but maybe it didn’t make much difference.

  26. @Bloke on M4 September 20, 2019 at 1:10 pm

    +1 Modern Lord’s Prayer, Creed, Prayer book, Hymns etc lack magic, splendour and what is sacred.

    .

    @bis September 20, 2019 at 2:06 pm

    It’s not the officers who’d need to be shot, it’s the other ranks

  27. When many working-class children don’t have basic equipment in class, the dominance of elite schools feels even more obscene.

    Primary School equipment: jotters/note-books, pencil, geometry set, blackboard, chalk & duster

  28. Swiss Toni – yes its there, not sure I’d use the term grammar relating to it.

    Very nice school overall. Just 3 and a half hours travel every day that was annoying.

  29. Couldn’t the schools just move their endowments off-shore?

    How would you seize them from a Swiss bank or Bahamas holding company?

  30. “Primary School equipment: jotters/note-books, pencil, geometry set, blackboard, chalk & duster”

    There’s plenty of evidence that the role of primary schools, which should start at about 6, should be about socialising children. Real teaching ie sitting down and concentrating shouldn’t start until about 8.

  31. The Wilson Labour government in 1964-70 nationalised the private steel companies at a discount to asset value by threatening, while in opposition to nationalise them and then using the panic-stricken share prices resulting from that threat to claim that it was paying a fair price based on “market value” (average share price over a period when it was unnaturally depressed by the Labour Party’s threats).
    We should not assume that a McDonnell government would pay a fair price. The book value of an endowment in 1819 pounds (20 Troy ounces of silver) is not its value in 2019 pounds (a piece of paper).- ask Hugh Grosvenor what was the cost to his family trust of Mayfair.

  32. Bloke in North Dorset.
    My missus has no respect for the schools. They spend 2 years teaching the children the GCSE subjects. She was taught in her foundation year in 12 weeks. The schools then take 2 years to teach A level subjects. Again she did it in 12 weeks. And passed sufficient to get accepted onto the course she wanted at uni, same as the children try and do.
    With 3 bus trips each way taking over 2 hours each way.

    So she (and I) see the schools as babysitting services.

    My younger sister homeschooled her eldest 2 children for several years. They followed a lesson plan, if they spent 3 hours in any one day on school stuff I’d be surprised, often less and occasionally no school stuff at all. Those kids went to school for the final 2 years and were both in top 10 percent of their class.

    Perhaps the schools are teaching the wrong way. Perhaps they are spending too long teaching stuff. Certainly when I was at school they focused on stuff I’ll never use.
    Two years of woodwork? I don’t do anything with wood. A year of latin? No use to me. 5 years of French despite me stopping learning it after less than a year? I don’t use the language at all.
    I didn’t study any 20th century history in a classroom until I was 37! Perhaps some 20th century history would have been more useful than learning 16th and 17th century stuff.

    What I did need to know? Life saving, first aid, fire extinguisher use, replacing a fuse, personal finance, childcare etc.

  33. Frances Ryan says that only 1% of children at Public Schools get free education – well that depends on your definition. Some pupils at boarding school get bursaries so that their parents pay less than the cost of feeding them but Ms Ryan says that their education is not “free”. Getting tuition for less than nothing is not free. Unsurprisingly the Grauniad is closed to comments from honest people.
    Last weekend’s FT says that over one-quarter of all pupils at “private schools” receive financial assistance from somewhere [it says that one-fifth of all pupils get assistance from the school but many of those actually get assistance from alumni who are pestered by the school to donate to bursaries (I contribute to my college’s bursary fund instead)].
    Ms Ryan is deliberately and maliciously misleading.

  34. @ Martin
    Is your Missus related to Einstein? Or has ‘A’ level followed university grades down the tubes? I could not have passed any ‘A’ level in 12 weeks, even if I had worked at it (24 weeks, OK, but not 12)

  35. This is because it is widely understood that no matter how natural a parent’s desire to do the best for their child, it does not trump the good of society.

    Excellent. Let’s abolish all the Catholic, Muslim and Jewish schools to then eh? They certainly create division.

  36. ‘only 1% of private school pupils were schooled for free’

    Kids have no money. They are all schooled for free.

  37. @BiND September 20, 2019 at 9:10 pm

    Real teaching ie sitting down and concentrating shouldn’t start until about 8.

    Result: bored children; I could read, write & count before starting school.

    That crazy “evidence” says don’t teach until P4: in P4 I was devouring C S Lewis’ Narnia books

  38. Interesting story, Ted S. I never heard that. I like it.

    But it seems odd. A team is the players, coaches and pads. Not much tangible there. What would Maryland have seized, if they could?

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