Rilly?

And this time I think few doubt recession is coming. It’s hard to see how this combination will fail to deliver the downturn that has been delayed for longer than I suspected, given all the failings of austerity.

What we know is that austerity cannot happen this time. There is nothing left to cut without enormous harm resulting.

Both taxation and government spending as a proportion of GDP are higher than they were under the Brown Terror.

What austerity?

64 comments on “Rilly?

  1. Horrific economic crisis is coming as the entire world semi-socialistic system of massive debt comes apart.

    Nothing left to cut? Must be joking.

  2. Abolish Overseas Aid, cut most Arts funding, that must be £20bn a year for starters.

    There must be a few billion in State subsidies to charities which use the money for political activism, cut that too.

    You could manage £25bn a year while barely trying if you really wanted to.

  3. “In “political speak” a cut == a reduced increase.
    Thus, much austerity… Simples.”

    I think its worse than that, in the minds of Spud et al, if taxes are in any way lower than they would like them then we have austerity. We could have a booming economy, with rising tax revenues and public spending budgets, and they would still consider it to be austerity, because those revenues ‘could’ be higher still.

  4. The Democrats won back control of Congress in 2006 with the help of their communications department – the legacy press – by convincing everyone that a recession was coming.

    “It’s the economy, stupid!”

    No, it’s actually what the legacy press can get the people to believe what the economy is. You don’t have to have an actual down turn if you can convince people it’s coming.

    ‘And this time I think few doubt recession is coming.’

    We’ll be getting lorryloads of these pronouncements thru Trump’s reelection 13 months from now.

  5. this is the half wit who wants us to spend £50 billion a year on eco wank fantasy, to go back to subsistence farming and close any business that can’t prove itself carbon neutral – thats all going to help gdp and rapidly transform the uk into pakistan (we’ve got half of pakistan living here already so the’ll feel right at home) He’ll be crying about austerity then.

  6. moqifen – apparently Pakistan isn’t so bad these days. According to Mr Khan they even have a Nandos.

    Seriously the idiots we have given a little power to would have us become far worse than Pakistan – we’d have brits travelling over there and claiming economic and political asylum.
    Anyone read the story this past week that the idea of red meat being bad for you is …. rather ideological?

  7. My plan is to apply to Boris as the Closing Quangos Team. I’ll take a couple of employment lawyers, go into each quango with the authority of the PM and spend half a day asking the chief exec what they do and seeing the books. Then I’ll make every single one redundant on the same day, paying their redundancy period money in full.
    Close down every quango in about a year.
    That would be so much fun!

  8. firefoxx – you’ve got my vote. Might want to do this highly in parallel, hitting tens of quangos per half day – get your detailed recommendations in place before the remaining quangos can react and activate their defence mechanisms to shut you out of their offices.

  9. Surely the Fat One would only predict a recession if he was really sure it was going to happen? He’s never done it before.

  10. At the end of the Brown era borrowing was 35% of GDP it is now 85% of GDP( apparently thats called clearing up the mess Labour left) . Osborne`s plans were to edge the country down to a vaguely respectable 65% of GDP by the end of this Parliament which we will be nowhere near.
    The Referendum recession was averted by a combination of cancelling this debt repayment and normalising interest rates as a consequence of which there is fer less do to retain demand in the economy if the real Brexit structural weakness tips into recession at any stage. The actions of the B and E were especially decisive as in effect they cancelled the expectation of a 2% rate increase( thats why we had a consumer boom and all that shit from the Brexit liars about inkling cash registers )
    There are , lets remember two distinct Brexit problems . One is a loss of confidence particularly in the pound which might force the B of E to increase interest rates in a recession . DISASTER .
    The other is the longer terms loss of growth
    When the country made a similarly idiot mistake after the war by Nationalising most of its major industries , we experienced historically strong growth ( in fact to hear Brexit volk talk it was golden age ) . In fact growth was weak and the UK fell visible behind its neighbours becoming the joke of Europe , bad teeth , bad schools playing on bomb sites etc.
    That is the real Brexit problem so its an interesting poi int as to whether it would be better to tip into crisis now or slowly lose ground blighting the lives of our children just so old ladies can sit in their fucking bungalows without the fear of Poles coming round to fix the roof

    You utter wankers

  11. `So— to précis the Facepainters tripe–COCKROT.

    You need some time with the Yellow Jacket anti-EU resistance Face. An eye knocked out by paramilitary CRS thugs and their EU logo’d armoured cars might –paradoxically–sharpen your vision. Blunted as it is by looking only very short distances inside the EU’s arsehole.

    You are scum Facepaint–just want to re-confirm that for you on this Monday morning.

  12. @ Newmania
    When the country made the mistake of nationalising the “crowning heights of the economy” it suffered severe inflation, devaluation of the £ and slow growth. After a change of government and abolishing wartime rationing, denationalisation of the steel industry and allowing private companies to build houses we enjoyed thirteen years of growth, unmatched by any Labour government before or since.
    To say that “we fell behind Europe” indicates appalling ignorance – continental European countries started catching us up from an even lower base, having suffered worse devastation during the war but less stupidity in the late 1940s.
    Things really went pear-shaped in 1974-9 not 1951-9

  13. John 77
    Between 1958, and Britain’s entry in 1973, gross domestic product per head rose 95 per cent in France, West Germany and Italy compared with only 50 per cent in Britain.
    After becoming an EEC member Gross domestic product per person has grown faster here than Italy, Germany and France .In 2013, Britain became more prosperous than the average of the three other large European economies for the first time since 1965.
    The British Steel Industry was re-nationalised in 1967 by Labour so your mention of this needs explanation or it may see you have cobbled together a major change in Policy direction out a a scrap of only antiquarian interest
    The constant theme fro this entire period was so called Butskellism which dominated British politics until 1979 and Mrs T
    You may wish to argue that the improved performance of the Uk was due to supply side reforms after 1979 but your suggestion that it went …Bad ,good for s bit ,very bad ,Good ( but only coincidentally due to the EU), is like Ptolemaic Astronomy . Crap .

  14. “In 2013, Britain became more prosperous than the average of the three other large European economies for the first time since 1965”

    So facepainter now says that the UK was ahead of its neighbours in contradiction of his bizarre rant at 8.52. Mind you, he often contradicts himself, usually in the same sentence. His grasp of history is especially fluid. Maybe he was taught by Snippa

  15. Newmania said:

    At the end of the Brown era borrowing was 35% of GDP it is now 85% of GDP( apparently thats called clearing up the mess Labour left)

    The Right:
    > propose modest cuts in spending

    The left:
    > REEEEEEEEEEE!

  16. We cannot afford the welfare state we have promised ourselves. At some point the reality of what we can have vs what we want / expect will bite. A government that tries to edge towards something we can afford is delivering ‘austerity’. When the anti-Semitic terrorist-loving Marxist tramp gets in control we can look forward to a much higher level of equality – everyone being equally fucked and living out of dumpsters a la Venezuela that is.
    The coming recession will push banks, governments, voters and institutions back into the ‘reality’ box. It will be enormously painful. But it is needed.

  17. @ Newmania
    If you look at what you yourself have said “the steel industry was re-nationalised” it will become obvious that 1967 was the second occasion on which it was nationalised. Do you require more explanation? Attlee’s idiots nationalised steel, the Conservative government of 1951-64 denationalised it.
    According to ONS the average annual growth rate under Conservative Governments from 1952 (they took office in October 1951) to 1973 was 3.68%; under the first Wilson government it was 2.75%. Under the second Wilson government it was 1.9%. Under Thatcher/Major it was 2.35%, under Blair/Brown it was 2.15%, since 2010 2.17%.
    Growth was higher before 1973 under the Conservatives and even Wilson’s first government did better than subsequent Labour governments post EU entry.
    Go and tell the ONS that its numbers are crap – or admit that you are talking rubbish..

  18. New Remainiac

    ‘slowly lose ground blighting the lives of our children just so old ladies can sit in their fucking bungalows without the fear of Poles coming round to fix the roof ‘

    What a rather odd specimen you must be to presume that:

    A/ The EU, already on the verge of recession and with zero weapons to counteract the coming global recession and with crises pending in Italy, France, Hungary and abroad with Algerian collapse is the only way of ‘saving the lives of our children’

    B/ That the only reason to vote for Brexit was because one had concerns over immigration or was otherwise ‘racist’

    I think you probably need psychiatric help as well as lessons in the use of a spell checker (in either order)

  19. I am aware what renationalised means; I’ve been using this language for years. You that produced this snippet as a supposed, National policy turning point. I was pointing out that such a suggestion does not make sense on any terms one of which is that during the benign period of high growth you claimed existed up to 1974 it was renationalised.
    I know that after the war the rate of growth was high .I know I know I know we all know and its obvious why isn`t it . Yes.
    This misleading fact has been trotted out time and time again because the truth is that the UK was growing much slower than its comparable neighbours which is wot I just told you !!

    But you know what I give in … tell you what lets go back to the Edenic period of the post war Wilson government which ,as you say was such a great success.
    Meanwhile UK growth per capita compared to is neighbours was lower pre EU and much higher in EU . Other factors, yes of course. Did it have nothing to do with it ? No-one but a few cranks suggest it

    hat the only reason to vote for Brexit was because one had concerns over immigration or was otherwise ‘racist’

    Oh Rilly ..then why were Face book flooding the country with graphics showing big black arrow converging on the White cliffs of Dover from Syria . Why was the imminent fact of Turkey as a member invented , why have immigrants been consistently and fraudulently blamed for low wages, high housing costs and why was the constitutional arrangements we may have with neighbouring countries mentioned never in the entire hate mongering Daily Express level campaign
    Bit no you are right , lots of people voted top leave the EU because they were told and believed it would make us all richer

    Fuck me to be known for all time as the stupid cunts who believed the bus , what way for this country to end , what a joke

  20. I’m glad to see NewRemainia has reached stage 2 of the Grief process – Anger. Hopefully he can continue to make progress and will reach stage 3 fairly soon – Bargaining, in an attempt to keep some of the elements of his shining city on a hill that is the EU.

  21. Apparently immigrants don’t affect the demand for labor, or the supply of housing. They’re magical like that.

  22. The shining city on a hill that is the EU (ahem) may be significantly less shiny after the coming recession. The banking system, the Euro and Germany vs GIPSI issues could all have gone terminal if things get too hairy. The Euro is not yet an optimal currency area. Getting the Eurozone to that point will require more political and fiscal convergence than is compatible with member states remaining as nation states. A do or die moment for the Eurozone is approaching. Personally I expect that the EUSSR will indeed be born, with member states being relegated to non-event status. What remains to be seen is how happy the electorates in such member states are with that.
    Here in the UK we can watch this development unfold whilst eating popcorn.

  23. ‘Fuck me to be known for all time as the stupid cunts who believed the bus , what way for this country to end , what a joke‘

    Have you considered counselling or anger management? Preferably after a course in English as a ‘Foreign Language’?

  24. JerryC

    As the Scottish band ‘Pilot’ said back in 1974 (just after we joined the New Remainiac’s dream project)

    ‘Oh, ho, ho
    It’s magic you know
    Never believe, it’s not so
    It’s magic, you know
    Never believe, it’s not so’

  25. A few months ago, Mark Carnage tacitly admitted that immigration had held down real wages in the UK. As usual, facepainter was not listening. Locked away in his padded cell, dreaming of the day he could practise yoga on Westminster Bridge. As city unslicker commented

    “What this shows us is that the Referendum has already put people off coming to the UK (thanksto all media for calling Leavers ‘Racist’ for 2 and a bit years, it seems to have worked!). This in turn has reduced the supply of Labour looking for work, which when allied to a continuing increase in jobs available has led to the Holy Grail – Lower long-unemployment, Lower youth unemployment, record tax revenues and decent wage increases. No wonder the overall economy is looking pretty healthy, despite Brexit!”

  26. Dear Jolyon–Soapy Sam re-born– has lost his Scottish court case that was going to force Boris to kiss EU arse. They are appealing–of course- but I think it has had its chips.

  27. Since Newmania persists on trolling this site, a little trolling in return seems appropriate.
    Subject: The damage immigration caused to the post war UK economy.
    By the end of the 40s demand was increasing in the UK for consumer products. Increased industrial production would be needed to satisfy it. But much of UK industrial capacity was a clapped out legacy from the war years. Labour relations were hostage to a powerful union movement hostile to change. There was also demand for more services. The newly nationalised heath service. Rail & bus transport. The UK was running into a labour shortage.
    Much the same problems, but more severe, confronted, West Germany. With American aid, it addressed them by re-equipping factories with modern more productive plant. Workers saw pay increases for increased productivity & unions cooperated in ,ore efficient use of labour. W Germany controlled immigation to a minimum.
    The UK tried to solve its labour shortage by immigration. The Windrush docked. Industry was slow to modernise. Unions were obstructive. Productivity & wage levels lagged.
    Saw the result, personally in the late 70s. Company I had involvement with, made photographic film. Some of the plant was that was used to produce gun camera film for spitfires. Coated bulk filmstock at a rate of about 10m/minute, flat out. Single coat of emulsion. They only produced b&w roll & plate film, X ray & microfilm. Either special market products or in the process of becoming redundant. Took 4 crews of 15 men to service each machine to run 24/7. It actually required less than half, the rest would be asleep or playing cards. But unions. A modern film coating machine could coat the three layers of colour film plus the 4 interleaving layers at around 80 m/minute. With half the number of crew. But they were in Germany. Guess who’s factory became a housing estate first?
    I’d say UK policy under both Tories & Labour was a stitch-up between a faction of the Establishment & the union movement. Tories wanted to return to a pre-war subservient working class. Unions didn’t want their members becoming affluent because they wanted them poor & voting Labour. Immigration suited both of them

  28. Apparently immigrants don’t affect the demand for labor, or the supply of housing. They’re magical like that.

    They do the jobs the locals, desperate for work in an economy of mass unemployment, can’t be bothered to do even though there are millions of vacancies.

    They also disappear into the ether at the end of a working day, they don’t live anywhere or occupy any space.

  29. ……With American aid, it addressed them by re-equipping factories with modern more productive plant. Workers saw pay increases for increased productivity & unions cooperated in ,ore efficient use of labour. W Germany controlled immigation to a minimum.

    It is a little known fact that more Marshall aid was revived by the Uk than by Germany and when we all get out of bed and go to work we do not reduce wages.
    Or then again perhaps we should all stay in bed so as to increase them again .
    Is this the level ?

  30. Incidentally, that’s exactly the same stitch-up’s been pursued over Brexit. History repeating itself.
    Big business doesn’t like competition. The socialists want to keep the workers poor

  31. Bloke in Spain

    You are exactly wrong , big business can cope with the additional costs – small businesses cannot and nor crucially,can start ups

  32. Ecks. You are confused by the cowboy-in-lycra who has also used the same icon. It’s not the same guy. The other one’s a bicycle fetishist. Goes apoplectic anyone disses his sex object. He’s had ample opportunity on Tim’s site & hasn’t bitten once.
    “Know your enemy as if he were your brother.” – Sun Tzu

  33. “Thesis “.?!!!!!
    .So the “thesis” is that as Germany did not have lots of black people form the Windrush to make cars by hand they had to invent machines and buy machines to do it which meant wages went up and so ( thanks to the lack of blacks off the boat) ., they get less confrontational Unions and everything is just lovely .

    Towards the end of World War II,and postwar about 12 million refugees of ethnic Germans, were forced to migrate from the former German areas – oops
    The other problem is that the UK has actually invested bigly in manufacturing and increased out out prodigiously (well Japan has) so although employment and share has gone down in the sector output increased …, which took place against a background of much higher levels of immigration than the trickles of Ugandan Indians and few Jamaicans of the 40s and 50s >it certainly did not make the UK economy look anything like the German one neither do I see any evidence whatsoever that high wages and what not produce cooperative Unions anyway
    Tube Drivers anyone ?
    Train drivers ?

    So what you would call a thesis I would call a nasty little attempt to blame just about every ill the UK suffers form on a few blameless Jamaicans which doesnot stand up to one seconds serious consideration

    Happy now ?

  34. Personally, I think he’s just trolling. (In the actual meaning of the word) Quite well, actually. He certainly gets plenty of bites. if you want to get rid of him, ignore him. But it doesn’t mean one can’t use his contributions to prompt avenues of thought.

  35. @ Newmania
    If you are aware what re-nationalisation means why were you so stupidly insolent as to question my statement that denationalisation occurred? The British Steel industry, with the sole and notable exception of Richard Thomas and Baldwins, prospered in the 1950s and early 1960s after it was denationalised. The car industry prospered in competition with the nationalised/municipalised public transport; the chemical industry (not important enough under Attlee to nationalise) grew to be the most valuable UK industry
    The post-War Attlee government was disastrously bad, but it was only a Wilson government to the extent that he was a fairly junior minister therein until he resigned “over a point of principle that Gaitskell had introduced prescription on spectacles” after Burmah Oil had challenged his unlawful decision to refuse to support them against the post-independence Burmese government’s decision to unconstitutionally confiscate their assets without compensation.
    Under Attlee we had bread rationing, which my elders did not suffer during WWII, but Nye Bevan and several other government ministers could grow fat.
    You are lying about what I did. I gave three reasons (among many) why and how Churchill started to turn back Attlee’s disastrous economic policies – he could only start on it with a tiny majority of 10.
    I pointed out the fact that the continental countries had a higher growth rate from a far lower base because they had been devastated during the war – didn’t you read that? There was another reason – the UK had less of the capital generated to reinvest because we were paying millions to the USA each year to repay them for the money borrowed during WWII and more millions (some, but far from all of which was refunded by the FDR) to defend Europe and the Commonwealth.
    You sneered that “I claimed that GDP growth went “good, bad, good, bad, good, bad” ” before I bothered to make that claim – so i pointed out that the ONS stated that as a fact.
    UK growth relative to its neighbours higher in the EU!?! Have a look at GDP figures – Eire’s GDP is now higher than the UK’s – partly because we have been subsidising its agriculture for 40-odd years. That Eire and Luxembourg are tax havens inside the EU isn’t possibly a reason why the Luxembourg-based Commission is so vehemently against any thought that the UK could offer minor tax advantages once it was outside the EU.
    You are a really really offensive liar. Michael Gove went “Leave” over the Common Fisheries Policy that ruined his father’s business. The North-east voted “Leave” over the EU policy that said the UK couldn’t protect the Redcar steel works from unfair dumping by China but mainland European countries could protect their industries, guys I know voted “Leave” over the stupid NET amounts that we paid to subsidise the other 27.

  36. “After becoming an EEC member Gross domestic product per person has grown faster here than Italy, Germany and France…”

    Post hoc, ergo… etc

    I’m glad we got that settled.

  37. This is all a troll-y sideshow.

    I voted to get back the ability to sack the people who make the decisions, and to row my country out of the deliberately and explicitly unaccountable Enarque-run technocracy which will, once again, drive continentals to each other’s throats.

    I see no necessary reason why this should impoverish us but, if it does, I’ll live with it. There are, and have always been, bigger fish to fry.

    There are more important things than money, Newmania, you grasping miser.

  38. And then, there’s this: imagine thinking good stuff comes from big government. I can only succeed with big government. Even better, if big government links arms with other big governments.

    What kind of a wretch would think that?

    How low do you have to fall, to reach those kinds of conclusions?

    It’s like being the catamites’ catamite.

  39. Mr Lud, I hope he has an appointment with Mme Zaza of Berwick Street this evening. It will surely do him good

  40. There are more important things than money, Newmania, you grasping miser.

    This. It seems the only possible argument that can be advanced in favour of the EU* is that, if we leave, the rate of increase in GDP may be fractionally reduced. Which would be such a disaster that it’s worth sacrificing every shred of democracy or self-respect to avoid (apparently).

    * Throughout the entire referendum campaign, did anyone spot a single positive benefit being advanced in favour of Remain? No. Just the same old project fear that leaving will be disastrous, because reasons.

  41. BiS–Sorry for late reply.

    I first came across Face on Jackal-Hearts site–true And Jackal-H had the Union Jacked face picture abusing the eyes on his site.

    But the image stuck with me for Facepaint–more even than the Jackal.

    It summed up for me the cod-patriotic middle class Proggie prick . Who will adorn his fucking car with Crosses of St Geo come World Cup Wankery–or Union Jack his treasonous mug for some shite rugby match. Faux patriots who –given a chance to actually do something real for their nation–vote for treason and betrayal. And are smug about their scum choices.

    Hence The Facepainter.

  42. “ Surely the Fat One would only predict a recession if he was really sure it was going to happen? He’s never done it before.”

    He’s not predicting them, he’s praying for them. When he gets round to the stopped clock he’ll start bragging about how prescient he is and how his economic policies are the only ones that will save the universe.

  43. Haven’t been to Jakart’s site for a while. But he’s not exactly a Typically British Dude. Guy from the outer London suburbs works in the City. Tosser written all over him. He’s not typical of anything.

  44. I think our Newmonia knows which buttons to push, gets results. That takes someone can see an argument from the outside. He may even be a remainer having a laff.

  45. Mr Ecks, that’s a more interesting explanation of ‘facepainter’ than I’d expected. Thank you.

  46. John 77? Of course I know Steel was nationalized and did not question it; loon. Your subsequent argument is prolix porridge. You want to blame the relatively poor performance of the UK per capita and compared to EEC members on war debts left wingery and this and that and blah blah blah ok. A second ago you were telling me how well the UK was doing before it went into the EEC. Which argument do you want to make ?
    By the way the IFS have today released their view that the UK`s debts are about to hit levels not seen since the mid sixties (90%) about the time the UK was overtaken by its neighbors
    Well done all of you!
    The Uk was not more statist that it neighbors and while its war debts were high they were high only by comparison to its low GDP and low compared to the inter war period, every country faced prodigious problems of all sorts. By the time 1958 ,comes along and we do not join the EEC much of this is the past. From that year EEC countries accelerated past the UK in 1965 and continued to leave the UK behind year on year.
    This was very obvious to everyone at the time and part of the wide agreement of Business government and people that we could not be cut off from our domestic market any longer whatever Empire fantasies might remain
    Then you go on to pretend that the facts you wish to excuse did not in fact happen – fine . I am quoting the FT which itself quoting form, a wide range of academic sources , this is not in question outside la la land
    The rest of it is spluttering about nothing , Michael Gove`s father, by the way denied that he was put out of business by the EU . Its not important its juts that everyone but you knows that

  47. By the way the IFS have today released their view that the UK`s debts are about to hit levels not seen since the mid sixties

    A think tank. Is that the best you can come up with? Would that be the same IFS that is funded by the EU and the European Research Council? That IFS?

    I think we can safely assume then that the report’s conclusions are bollocks on stilts

  48. Interested

    The only thing I will say is it is testament to Tim’s commitment to free speech that such a being is permitted to post here. A pathological purveyor of serial disinformation who is the embodiment of a genuine ‘troll’. Nevertheless, we have to ask, should not evil be allowed a platform? I am of the opinion you don’t overcome bad ideas by making them verboten. Long may he continue to put up his nonsense and be metaphorically eviscerated by the numerous excellent respondents here. A stark contrast to the thousands blocked on Tax Research UK.

  49. “the IFS have today released their view that the UK`s debts are about to hit levels not seen since the mid sixties (90%) ”

    And we are in the EU, still. So the rising debt levels must be the result of something else, no? What about that big financial crashy thing we had 10 years ago? Think that might be slightly responsible for the UK (and just about every other Western nation) having exploding public debt levels post 2007? Or is an unimplemented 2016 referendum capable of going back in time and making everything the fault of Brexit voters?

  50. @ Newmania
    Yes, of course you knew that steel had been nationalised – so why did you question that it had been denationalised? I am neither Canadian nor a bird. Your pathetic insults do not justify your previous insult.
    Please could you, just for a change, read stuff before replying to something that I didn’t say. What I did was compare growth under different governments for full terms instead of cherry-picking a period starting at the top of an economic cycle to pretend that growth had been slow. I did not say that the UK was doing marvellously before it went into the EEC, just that it was growing faster before it joined the EEC than it did after. This is a hard fact that you cannot talk your way round. The ONS data also showed that growth was better under Conservatives than Labour [and if the data had been corrected for the mis-statement of RPI under Gordon Brown then it would have been clear that Brown underperformed even Wilson mark II and Cameron would have looked almost good in comparison].
    You attempt to say that I am contradicting myself – bullshit – I am contradicting, with hard evidence your misleading and mostly simply inaccurate claims.
    If you read the Grauniad article you will find that your interpretation of the headline is incompatible with the text of the article “Ernest Gove told the Guardian that he sold the business voluntarily because the fishing industry in Aberdeen was being hit by a range of different factors.” “Ernest Gove told the Guardian that he did believe the industry in Scotland “more or less collapsed down” after the EU became involved in fisheries policy,” “Ernest Gove told the BBC the CFP “ruined the Scottish fishing industry because it just went downhill”.
    It takes a devious left-winger to turn those statements into the Grauniad headline or your claim.

Leave a Reply

Name and email are required. Your email address will not be published.

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.