So an impolite question

This McKinnon who keeps winning cycling races in the female category. Chopped or not-chopped?

A certain evidence of the commitment to the transition in evidence perhaps?

29 comments on “So an impolite question


  1. Dr. Rachel McKinnon @rachelvmckinnon

    I actually think any sexual orientation other than pan is immoral because sexual genital preferences immoral.

    Yeah, he’s got a winkie.

  2. A somewhat impertinent and irrelevant question – though it does reveal somewhat of a prurient interest.

    There are many TG individuals who have not had surgery, mostly on medical advice. It is deeply invasive surgery and has many possible complications, and in many cases surgery is out of the question.

    I have no idea Dr McKinnon has had surgery, but it certainly should not be assumed that, if not, it is in any way because of any lack of “commitment”, which sounds if you you believe it to be a lifestyle choice. Do you believe the same of homosexuality?

  3. Completely OT.

    Some interesting analysis of the WAB from the New Statesman’s Stephen Bush in his morning news letter:

    1) The clauses confirming the continued primacy of EU law during the transition period – there is a meaningless section later down the bill designed to mollify any worried Brexiteers but it does not change the meaning of this part. However, if I were them I’d grin and bear it because….

    2) There is nothing of substance in this bill to allow MPs to prevent a no-deal exit at the end of October 2020 and as written it does an excellent job of making the parliamentary manoeuvres that prevented a no-deal exit in March and October signficantly harder. Coupled to pre-existing mechanisms in the transition period agreed by Theresa May, to stop a no-deal exit at the end of next year, the UK would have to agree an extension with the EU in July of 2020 – and, because the EU enters a new budgetary period at the end of 2020, that would involve a huge financial commitment, something that Parliament cannot do without the co-operation of the executive.

    3) The scant ability given to Parliament to scrutinise the free trade agreement negotiations. Ministers will be required to provide updates to Parliament, but that’s it. Given the difficulty of of preventing a no deal Brexit, as it stands, if MPs vote this through unamended this will be the last meaningful vote they cast as far as the final shape of Brexit is concerned – it will be a choice between whatever Johnson negotiates or no deal.

    4) The attempt to codify parts of the future declaration – the non-binding parts of the exit deal that cover the EU and UK’s aspirations for the future relationship – which would put the UK on course for a low-alignment, low-trade, high regulatory divergence Brexit as envisaged by the Conservative party’s most committed Brexiteers. (See? I said there was a good reason to just grin and bear the sections about the primacy of EU law during the transition.)

  4. Also off-topic.

    I see that Trudeau’s liberal party has won most seats in Canada’s election (157 seats with 33.0% of the vote) while the Conservatives have come second (121 with 34.4%).

    I look forward to howls of protest from the left wing media about Trudeau not really winning because he got less votes (and repeated mentions of the ‘blackface’ incidents). Or not. Because reasons.

  5. @Josephine “which sounds if you you believe it to be a lifestyle choice. Do you believe the same of homosexuality?”

    Two entirely different things. If you are attracted to members of the same sex, that’s it and of itself.

    But how can you say, if you are a man, that you feel like a woman? How does anyone know what anyone else feels like? I don’t know what it feels like to be my brother.

    If I were to say I felt like a penguin and wanted my thighs sewn together and my arms amputated at the elbow you’d rightly conclude that I was completely mad and that even if I did have those things done, I still wouldn’t be a penguin.

  6. AndrewC: “If I were to say I felt like a penguin and wanted my thighs sewn together and my arms amputated at the elbow you’d rightly conclude that I was completely mad and that even if I did have those things done, I still wouldn’t be a penguin.”

    In 20 years time, that’l probably be a hate crime! You’ll wave your Species Reassignment Certificate at plod who’ll be around to arrest Josephine lickety-split…

  7. Josephine

    Others might say I am a slightly overweight, balding middle-aged man. However, I identify as an Adonis in his early 20s and an Olympic champion.

    Now give me my gold medal.

  8. There are many TG individuals who have not had surgery, mostly on medical advice. It is deeply invasive surgery and has many possible complications, and in many cases surgery is out of the question.

    Deeply invasive surgery?
    We’ve been castrating people and animals since biblical times at least, probably before.
    Also, emasculating people since these times (not to be confused with castration, which is removal of just the testicles – emasculation removes the penis as well).
    It isn’t that hard to have them chopped off safely. Construction and maintenance of a false vag is a bit harder and a different topic – as you say it’s invasive and may not be medically advisable. *

    Surely, if someone is truly convinced they are a woman, they should have the twig and berries chopped off as a first order approximation, before being allowed to compete against women and use the women’s bathrooms…
    It would be relatively cheap and quick and would sort out who was doing it because they truly believe they are a woman on a man’s body and who just wants to win medals.

    * – I don’t think any of these are medically advisable…

  9. My view on homosexuality is the correct one. One that’s observably correct that is.

    Some minority of people have only same sex attraction. Just as the majority by far have only opposite sex attraction. Some are variable dependent upon circumstances. For yes, we can indeed see changes in sexual activity in single sex societies.

    The corollary of which is that some are indeed simply built that way – most in fact. And some make a decision based upon the availability of sex in the societal circumstances they find themselves.

    And yes, I do think the same is true of trans issues. There is some number who are indeed in the wrong physique just as for the vast majority they’re not. And then there are some making a choice. Just as with the sexual activity thing I’m entirely fine with all of that, including the choice part. For I am indeed a liberal. Liberality over life choices obviously having to meet that third party effects test……

  10. For yes, we can indeed see changes in sexual activity in single sex societies.

    Speak for yourself Tinkerbell – incidentally I was once browsing gay porn in a ‘Video’ shop, ( shut up I was just intrigued at what they might find …um…. interesting ), so my eyes scanned along ” Stalag Sex” …” Lock Down Cock” and more of Jane Austen`s less known work.
    Someone had taken ‘Free Willy’ out of the Children`s section and out it in the middle of the man games bit . Excellent work
    Wherever you are , my brother from another mother; salutations !

  11. It’s not especially difficult to see photos of her in tight cycling shorts if you’re that interested in knowing.

    What I don’t get is why that change is seen as the sine qua non, rather than the hormonal changes which have drastic consequences across the entire body, and are also the major reason why men and women have different athletic abilities in the first place.

    The evidence for athletic ability being influenced by pubertal development is very limited. The evidence for it being affected by recent hormonal balance (not just the levels on the day of competition, but the last year or two) is massive.

    Once a trans woman is taking t-blockers and HRT, she goes through major physical changes which take, typically, a couple of years to complete. Many of those changes are not reversible – you can’t get back to a fully male physiognomy after taking HRT for a couple of years. The only thing that the genital surgery affects is the genitals; the hormonal changes are fundamental (after all, the SRY gene is only activated in a handful of cells; all the non-genital differences between men and women are hormonally mediated, so artificially changing the hormonal balance causes the body to switch from male to female in every respect bar genitalia).

    I really don’t see why genital surgery, which really does only matter if you’re having sex with them, is seen as important, while hormones, which change personality, change the entire physical aspect of the body, even down to small things like what they smell like, are not seen as being a big deal.

    One final point – hormones are irreversible. Hormone-blockers, which is what are prescribed to children to prevent puberty from happening, are not.

  12. There is some number who are indeed in the wrong physique

    I don’t think there’s any evidence of that. However, there is evidence of people who are mentally unable to accept the physical reality of their body.

    I reckon it’s probably easier, medical tech being where it is, to try to shrink such people so they accept their body. Rather than mutilate them in an attempt to make reality conform to their fantasy.

  13. ”One final point – hormones are irreversible. Hormone-blockers, which is what are prescribed to children to prevent puberty from happening, are not.”

    Long term studies are showing that may not be as clear cut as was previously thought. Of course they had a very limited use and it wouldn’t be the first time that wider use of something revealed a whole new set of issues.
    Would not be surprised to see a load of lawsuits in 10-20 years time

  14. Chinese Imperial Eunuchs had too keep their parts in a jar, pickled. I saw the podium. It was two women and a bloke getting the medals. Looked so obvious.

  15. @Josephine
    OF COURSE it is a choice.
    I know some celibate individuals who are attracted to members of their own sex but choose to be celibate because their Christian beliefs do not accord with homosexual practice.
    Anyone who says that we do not have a choice is an idiot (or a liar).
    I also know some who choose not to be celibate.
    It is a choice

  16. Difficult to fault this logic ….

    Titania McGrath
    @TitaniaMcGrath
    Misogynists always claim that men are better than women at sports.

    But if that’s the case, how come cyclist Rachel McKinnon only started winning gold medals *after* she transitioned?

    #Checkmate

  17. @BiG, there isn’t because they can’t…

    Last time I checked an “unnatural” testosterone/epitestosterone balance sets a doping test screaming six ways to sunday.. And given that F2M’s *need* testosterone supplements…

  18. MC – I read a study that claimed giving dopamine dampeners to an autogynephile* put a quick stop to his dress up compulsion.

    (Can’t find it now)

    It makes sense if (much?) of what we call transgender is a fetish. Fetishes work the same way as other addictions – flood the brain with that sweet dopamine hit, then there’s an emotional crash. Then the sufferer has to find greater and greater lengths to get the same dopamine rush.

    These people are ill and need our help. The absolute worst thing we can do for them is to sever the genitals – that’s a road to lifelong pain and regret. Better living through chemistry is the enlightened choice.

    *I doubt the same treatment would work for kids. They need to be loved and given clear boundaries, and told it’s ok to be a tomboy or a fancy lad. It’s ok to feel confused, teenage years are often miserable but it gets better.

  19. The trouble is that the medical cheering section that supports trans teens now makes it very hard for that teen to turn around and say hey I was just confused about gender and sexuality etc.
    It’s a trap as they are caught in a loop and can feel that backing down will lead to censure and offend the ‘support team’ etc. or even seen as phobic or being unnecessarily influenced by others.
    It also becomes part of their identity and the groups they interact with, change your given name for a couple of years and it can be hard to go back to your original one, bit like trying to shed a nickname

  20. Asserting one is a man or a fem based upon how one “feels” about it contrary to biology is a delusion. The person is delusional. Unless I find evidence otherwise it is no different than other mental delusions, such as Anorexia and BIID (Body Integrity Identity Disorder). An Anorexic believes herself (I think all Anorexics are fems) too fat even though she can clearly see herself in a mirror as dangerously malnourished & skeletal. BIID persons do not accept their perfectly healthy, natural limbs & desire amputation or to have their spinal cord severed to meet their mental delusion.

    Transgender persons have a high suicide rate. Anorexics have a high rate of early death. BIID is rare & I don’t know their survival rates. All are mentally deluded & unable to accept reality.

  21. Transgender persons have a high suicide rate. Anorexics have a high rate of early death. BIID is rare & I don’t know their survival rates. All are mentally deluded & unable to accept reality.

    And we dont tell Anorexics that they are in fact fat and need to continue their Auschwitz dieting,. because that would be evil and cruel.

    And why is it that any transgender advocate that invades a blog like this, always spouts the most ridiculous bollocks? It almost as if they’re all fucking mental.

  22. An Anorexic believes herself (I think all Anorexics are fems) too fat even though she can clearly see herself in a mirror as dangerously malnourished & skeletal. BIID persons do not accept their perfectly healthy, natural limbs & desire amputation or to have their spinal cord severed to meet their mental delusion.

    A really good friend was going to marry an American who was a psychiatrist dealing with people’s addictions and other mental health issues. She said that the worst to deal with were anorexics because they wouldn’t admit they had a problem and therefore treatment rarely worked and all that happened was she watched them, slowly kill themselves.

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