Another reason against Brexit

As an exercise in brand management Brexit has been a disaster. The UK has lost all credibility. And it is seen as a very peculiarly English problem.

Foreigners think it’s a bad idea.

Hmm, OK, and?

48 comments on “Another reason against Brexit

  1. 39 chinks didn’t care one bit about Brexit. One chinese restaurant chain owner somewhere at the moment wringing his hands and wondering how now to solve his new found staff problem.

  2. @Mr Ecks

    1 – I think Spud is dangerous.
    2 – It provides some measure of amusement to make the fat fucker cross.

    Spud warns us that we must add insulation to our homes….

    “I am well aware of the challenge that tackling 2.8 million homes a year represents. It is enormous. But we can always die instead.”

  3. About insulation, it’s not like even here up north it’s anything like Finland. You have your brick or stone walls, double-glazing quite standard nowadays, loft full of some insulation material. I live in a bottom of a valley, cold spot, coldest ever I’ve recorded is a ridiculous -8 degC. My old brick house in Finland with horse hair in the wall cavity, no central heating but some electric radiators and a few fireplaces, very thin insulation up in the loft, -22 to -30 degC outside…put on some woolly socks and open a Belgian strong ale! Later in the evening jump into the snow naked and make some snow angels, run into the sauna and beat the shit out of yourself with some birch twigs, +80-120degC inside, to get the blood flowing. Afterwards a beer and a salty snack – Bob’s your uncle.

  4. In about a month’s time, I will wish Murphy an utterly joyless, plastic, fossil fuel and exotic foods free Christmas

  5. @Jussi

    I remember the screeching condemnations from the left about some Tory MP suggesting ‘putting on a jumper indoors’ if heating bills were a concern.

    I have a very thick, very comfy dressing gown and if it is a little cold indoors I can put that on (free) or whack on or put up the heating (£). I don’t consider it a collapse in civilisation when I put on my dressing gown.

  6. According to a Grun article back in 2012, 65% of insulatable homes were insulated. My Dad did his house back in the 1980s, so if we are generous and say that’s 65% over 20 years, that’s 3.25% per year. To get the remaining 35% done would take 10 years. So, that means today in 2019 we’ve got 90% done. Put the kettle on, feet up.

    If the comeback is “oh, be we’ve only really been insulating since (insert later date), then that means we’ve been doing a lot more than 3.25% per year. If we’d only “seriously” been insulating since 1992 say, then that’s 6.5% per year, we’ll get the remaining 35% done by 2017. Well done, everybody go home.

    The reality is that we’ll never get 100% of the housing stock fully insulated because there’s a straggling remainder that are impossible to do, and the reality is that we’ve more-or-less done everything that is practical to do. We’re at the point where what’s left costs more than the value of the house to do up, the typical Grun madness of spending 90K to do up a 40K property, or the madness of ripping out a 400-year-old cottage to make it into a sterile bauhaus box.

  7. It is quite awkward. I deal Germans a bit and you`d like to say” Its not me , I hate it ” but its hard to judge at what point you know someone well enough to tell them you despise much of your own country. Awkward
    I find amongst those I do know a bit that as it is a business transaction and they are happy enough to deal with any old stone age wanker from bongo land if it makes money ( as are we all of course) it makes little difference to the transaction .-
    Overall you notice a certain “distance “. a certain” mind the loon .. ..stick to business ”

    I think over time like will deal with like and as few Brexit people do anything the default assumption will just be its a thing for ..simple folk

  8. “any old stone age wanker from bongo land”

    And I’m the bigot …

    “know someone well enough to tell them you despise much of your own country”

    You don’t know any of us, but you’ve made it pretty damned clear.

  9. Isn’t it normally the Germans who are pointlessly apologising for their country?
    Anyway, you must meet some rather odd Germans.
    I too deal with the Germans on a fairly regular basis and was over in the Rhineland a couple of weeks ago.
    The people I met divided into three camps, roughly equal.
    One third thought we were mad to be leaving, one third were jealous that we were leaving, and one third had no strong opinion either way.
    What they had in common was that none of them blamed (or credited) me, or indeed any individual voters, but accepted that it was the result of the referendum and indeed further agreed that it was quite likely that if a referendum was held in Germany the result would be close, depending on the recent news cycle et cetera.
    I would go further and say that nobody would blame any particular Briton for any particular decision made by the country as a whole, and thus that you are lying. But your side does, a lot.

  10. Also, I find it hard to credit anyone who is incapable of working the space bar on their keyboard with having any particularly great insight into anything.

  11. This is a fairly typical cringe from the hardcore remainers – they really are obsessed with what Europeans think about us/them, and would sacrifice just about anything to be patted on the head and told “good doggie!”

    I live in a bottom of a valley, cold spot, coldest ever I’ve recorded is a ridiculous -8 degC

    I remember it went down to -18 on Christmas Day a while back, 2010?

  12. “The enemy always comes from the east”
    —my grandfather, in the Winter War, Russkies on the horizon.

  13. I had a stimulatin’ discussion about this with a bunch of Germans in the foyer of the Schlosshotel Kronberg, outside Frankfurt, a few days ago. (I must be moving up in the world). Because I speak like I’m from Surbiton, they assumed I was English. Once I made it clear that I’m not, and never was, we moved on to actually discuss the matter. I found the proportion of opinion to be just as Interested said – one-third thought the Brits are crazy, one-third wished that the Germans could leave as well, and one-third could care less.

    As we chatted about this, one of the staff arrived with coffee and suchlike, and in keeping with my egalitarian outlook, I said to her “Tell me, you’re German, what do you think of Brexit?” And she said, ‘No, I am Polish. As to Brexit – they voted for it, didn’t they?” And then she left. The Germans didn’t have much to say about that 🙂 apart from one of the Remainers, who insisted that ‘they didn’t know what they were voting for – they should vote again!’ I just let that hang in the air for a few seconds, and then the laughter began . . . . . .

    llater,

    llamas

  14. I would say the brand that has been damaged is Parliamentary Democracy with Constitutional Monarchy.

    The latter, with its reserve powers, is supposedly a backstop (that word) in the event the constitutional conventions and traditions are not observed and democracy is under threat and a person or group tries to seize power – that would be now.

    Since the Queen has been as much use as a chocolate teapot throughout, what is she for? The UK now has a rogue Parliament which has seized power to become a competing Government to H M Government supported by the judiciary, democratic process is just a memory, the very time for the Queen to use the reserve powers unilaterally and hand the matter over to the electorate.

    UK may as well have just a ceremonial monarch otherwise.

  15. Hate to say it, but as “brand management” it has been a disaster.

    Government decides to have a referendum, apparently to quash discordant voices in its own party.
    It gets it wrong, and the wrong anser is given.
    PM resigns, to be replaced by an ardent remainer with all the personal skills of a dead Angela Merkel; apparently she has never read “Negotiations for Dummies”.
    PM resigns, after having had two extensions to the end date.
    Parliament still can’t agree on a way forward; their behaviour is 100% consonant with attempting to defy the will of the people by stymying Brexit.

    .. and so on and so forth.

    Yes, it’s a display of massive incompetence, writ loud for the world to see.

  16. John B, I used to have this buffer theory. Some elements in the society, standing between me and the socialists, all good. The Royal family? Sure, takes some guts in the modern age to assassinate them like they did to the Romanovs. So I am still a Royalist but my patience is running low for sure.

  17. When remain supporters claimed leaving the EU would be a disaster, that was not a prediction, it was a threat.

  18. The thing with national brand management is that it’s all about jobs for commies like spud. Spend a fortune on the Olympiccs or some other guff.

    In the end, it’s not about national brands, it’s about corporate brands. Pretty sure that the Bad Orange Man is everything that the Guardian readers hate, but are any of them switching from American search engines or Apple iPhones? Is anyone going to cancel their orders for an Aston Martin because of Brexit?

  19. @BoM4
    +1

    Why would we be concerned about the opinion of some randomly selected continental johnny? If your business sells a product ultimately bought by members of the public, you’d be rightly concerned about how they perceive your company. But if your product costs multi-millions and purchasing decisions are taken by a few hundred people worldwide (say, aero engines), they’re the only people you want to influence.

    We would like the UK to be seen as a good place for inward investment – which it is and continues to be. And a ‘poor perception’ of the UK doesn’t seem to put off countless thousands of third world types, who’ve already made it to Belgium or France, still risking their lives (and, sadly, sometimes losing them) to reach the UK. Perhaps they haven’t heard about Brexit?

  20. Chris Miller, that is a very, very good point.

    Besides, I loathe the mercantilism of the national pride fetishists. They’re actually projecting their own Little England insecurities onto the rest of is.

  21. While I’m sure the perception is incompetent Brits, helped by our media being anti-Britain and pro-EU, I’d be surprised if they EU hasn’t been tarnished by this as well once you move outside of capital and government bubbles.
    Also as the Australian coverage someone linked to recently shows it’s the political elite grandstanding and trying to block Brexit that is being seen by others as damaging not the average Brit who voted for it or necessarily the decision itself.

  22. Oh, and what’s this nonsense about a Thai family (Thai British, whatever that means) paying £30,000 to break the law. The law which gave them sanctuary.

    We effing gave them sanctuary. And this is our recompense. Screw you, Britain. We’re criminals who scorn your laws. And rather than assisting the rozzers with their enquiries, our first thought is to run to the press.

    They are accessories in their daughter’s death. Will they even be prosecuted for their role in this people-smuggling …? [crickets]

    And we put up with it. This is not a fucking hotel.

    This country is sodomised, six ways, left and right, up and down. And diagonally.

  23. @Rob

    -18c here oop north January 1996 – gas demand so high pressure fell and boiler pilot lights turned off.

    .
    @John B October 25, 2019 at 4:16 pm
    @Bloke In Tejas October 25, 2019 at 4:20 pm

    +1

    Trust has been damaged along with respect for UK as a democracy and “The Mother of Parliaments” is what has been damaged along with our legal system and BBC.

  24. Re. Constitutional Monarchy

    I don’t think we’re quite there yet for ol’ Brenda to ride in and sort the mess out.
    Sure, we’re close. But in a constitutional monarchy, that has to be the ultimate last resort. Otherwise we end up with the crown sorting everything out when it gets a little difficult and it just morphs into a monarchy.

    Does anyone know what power the crown actually has to close parliament and call an election? Not just when asked by the PM to exercise the ceremonial pomp and circumstance closing of parliament, but turning up unannounced, turfing the lot against their will out, and calling an election power? Is this a doable thing?

    We could in all likelihood, end up with Grandpa Death dithering for another week and then the French not agreeing to an extension, forcing us out WTO.
    Which would mean they would be responsible for saving is from the Germans this time. Nice of them to return the favour really…

  25. My chats with French and Spanish people in the last 2 years suggest that they would love to leave the EU fourth Reich

  26. BrexBox Episode 12: Why Boris’ “new” EU treaty is so Dangerous
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5sm4eenNwk

    Remainers & EU aim: Bore & Frustrate UK into accepting the Leave result be ignored and anything accepted to end the “war”

    Problem being it ends nothing; no certainty and years more but with both hands tied behind our back. Also, the public anger when the implications of the Treaty become apparent

    Political Declaration has word “should” in it 126 times – “should” in EU/Roman law has a very different interpretation to “should” in UK Law and EU/ECJ will rule on interpretation not an impartial body.

    How much do we pay EU to Leave? £Billions unknown – once Treaty signed Barnier decides and if UK disagrees, ECJ decides

    Defence/Foreign Policy/War – UK must support EU

    The more scrutiny done, the worse it becomes. The only solution is a clean break, no deal exit from EU

    .
    Aaron Brown at Conservative Conference 2019
    “This Remain Parliament is: ‘Unfit to Run a Brothel! Let Alone to Run this Great Nation”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxDO5dOGWY0

  27. Chris Miller and m’Lud nail it.

    If you’d talked about a UK brand and being proud of it in 2015 or before you’d have been labelled a Nazi.

  28. I had assumed that the Boris fudge over NI was in line with Tim’s suggestion when it first arose, we can all just pretend that something is being done as we used it in the past. As even internal shipping in the EU between counties requires some paperwork can see shipping through NI be a simple addition to this or just accepted as sufficient with UK shipping to NI just having a check box added to orders that each side acknowledges this is not intended for onward shipping.

  29. Does anyone know what power the crown actually has to close parliament and call an election?

    I don’t think she can any more; prerogative power is trumped by statute, so the F-tPA prevents her.

  30. Time for CCA.

    Yes I know all sorts of legal cockrot surrounds the CCA etc. But if these powers were wanted by the boss class–say to give the ord folks of the UK an EUMacron-style kicking–as Bliar intended them to be used–then somehow all the legal bullshit would be quietly forgotten –as it usually is.

    Indeed the “rule of law” is certainly more of a “guideline” than an aktual rule–as somebody said.

    Certain types of Continuing Care for certain classes of elderly relatives are supposed to be paid by the NHS. Which they doesn’t cos it costs them too much. They have been taken to court and lost a number of cases and pay in those cases but take no notice whatsoever of precedent. If you take them to court they pay–otherwise fuck off.

    Likewise Bliars gun ban was not legal under EU law. But he didn’t say owt and his dear pals didn’t say owt and there you go.

    That is the “rule of law”.

    NiV–on the Great Alignment site of PdeH ha said he thinks BoJo is looking to work up the Tory faithful to ensure a GE result.

    Maybe but considering the latest by-election result–by which, thanks to the TBP, a very safe Tory seat was kept by only 3 %–Blowjo is playing a dangerous and dumb game. TBP polled 20%.–in a Tory area –so mostly ex-Tories I think

    Esp as it seems to be a last minute cancelation of Brexit looming..Cancel Brexit 3 days before. A tactic better designed to drive support TBP way I cannot think of–apart from giving the PM job back to Treason May. In some ways that would be better than BloJo’s antics. Tory support would vanish almost entirely and TBP would have a v good chance of an outright win.Yesterday’s kind of results nationwide would devastate ZaNu but still have a ,majority Brexit nation in danger of a remain gang takeover.

    Assuming Johnson can get an election. The remainaic scum are being lined up very nicely as scum–which they are. But Johnson will look like a blowhard fool after all his big talk. His Deal bullshit is very dangerous indeed. A split we cannot afford.

    So unless Johnson is running the clock down to say–“We are going No Deal anyway–fuck the law and the Courts are closed until further notice” CCA style–then he is being very foolish. He will be hugely damaged if Brexit is halted without a definite GE and no notice being taken of Jizz’s cockrot about No Deal being removed. Indeed–such circs would be the only way Johnson can de-toxify himself and the Tories. To have a GE in very close prospect. Doing what he is doing I don’t see Monday as being anything but another Blojo voting flop. It will leave hate against the HoShite at an all time high –and Boris/Tory stock lower than whaleshit.

    Unless he is wasting time planning to take us out on time CCA style.. He would be a hero and lots of us–myself included–would turn out in the street to ensure (by violent means if necs) the House of Scum won’t be able to reverse his actions.

  31. Ecks

    Agreed. Unless we really are going to be celebrating at 11pm this Thursday, I’m not convinced that Cummings / BoJo have factored in (to their polls) the potential downside of “yet another fuck up / missed deadline” (Boris, you did say Do or Die…).

    They seem to be assuming that “Boris being a victim of events” is somehow a good look – whereas, from where I stand, it’s increasingly making him look like a wuss. He’s had the opportunities to fight fire with fire, and he keeps wimping out.

    And I’m increasingly struggling to see the benefit of this new deal over just leaving on Thursday. £30 billion or whatever is a lot to pay for 14 months of additional (non voting) membership, with all the continuing uncertainty to business that this latest “can kick” (treaty) brings – on the basis that a shiny new trade deal in 14 months (with the EU’s track record) looks pretty damn unlikely, unless it’s simply just more capitulation.

  32. An SNP deal has been mooted on Radders blog.

    Give them a 2nd Ind ref in exchange for GE/Deal support.

    They won’t win it and it would be widely unpopular in Scotland. The SNP helped Remain up there by falsely promising that there would have to be a second Ind Ref if Leave won. I have no doubt that helped scue result to remain.

    So lets not make the Fish Faced Hag Sturgeon out to be a liar–i know far too late but still–lets enable her to deliver on her promises. A second Ind ref in exchange for a GE or Deal support.

    It is a way forward and a way to avoid the “I -am-such-a-blowhard-wanker-that-Brexit-will-be-cancelled-with-three-days-to-go-despite-all-my-hot-air” look that Blojo is headed for on Monday. I think he wildly overestimates the “Poor Boris” effect that will result. With a definite GE date he might get by but without one even My-Dad-voted-Tory losers like Theo must be veering towards vomit if not outright angry contempt.

  33. Small flurries of excitement that Macron could be the saviour of Brexit.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7615693/Macron-threatening-force-Britain-brink-no-deal-Brexit-blocking-extension.html

    Most likely just an attempt to bounce Corbyn / MPs toward “deal” or election. But it’s an indication of the sort of political accident that could still happen in the last few days of October. It was enough to make the Mail bring back its “x days to Brexit” box that has been MIA recently.

  34. If we miss the nearer the miss is the bigger blowhard fuckwit Johnson will look. Yes there is hate abundant for the remainiac gang but it is a tsunami that will not miss Blojo if all his boasting ends up with a last minute back-to-Treason-May’s-extensions-game caper.

  35. Some interesting comments in the podcast world recently.

    The Speccie this morning saying Boris could be close to blowing it by all his do or die bluster. The Brexit Party message is going to be you can’t trust the Tories, they’ve had 3.5 years and still haven’t delivered.

    On the other side Stephen Bush, an EU federalist but pragmatic about the vote (once he got over his grief) reckons a GE could be Remainers’ last chance to avoid a no deal Brexit.

  36. Boris Johnson is a ‘liar’ who spread ‘bs’ in Brexit referendum says EU President Juncker
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiTrGf0-lCk

    Juncker says “Cameron should have let me speak” – I agree, Tusk, Verhof and that RoI woman too; Obama was great for Leave

    .
    DUP says Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal ‘the worst of all worlds’
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk9llvyya3g

    Agree. Nice dig by Dodds* at Barclay & Johnson not knowing what is in Treaty

    * youtube.com/watch?v=NTwi2SeIG9w

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