If Cameron does hold an anti-Lisbon referendum, it will in effect be an in-or-out referendum – and out it would probably be. This is extreme ideological policymaking,

Umm, if the populace votes to get out, isn\’t that democracy? You know, the Demos gets what the demos wants?

But Cameron\’s euro-extremism should set alarm bells ringing about just how ideological he is beneath that moderate veneer. Dominating his party through his success, he has nothing to fear from his swivel-eyed Bill Cash wing. He could rescind rash promises made in the heat of his leadership election, but plainly has no wish to.

Eh? Cameron could act against his previous promises and this would be a good thing? It\’s a bad thing that he would keep his promises?

I don\’t think he will, this is true, but you\’re attacking someone because they might keep their word?

Jeebus, there\’s something seriously wrong with your worldview girl.

16 thoughts on “Oi! Polly!”

  1. She’s used to a Labour Government, simple. Labour love the EU, absolutely no question of leaving that great socialist utopian paradise, where all the peasants are equal and the political and rich classes prosper on their taxes etc……

    ….and it’s the Labour Government that always go back on their manifesto promises.

    She thinks it’s normal for a politician to be corrupt and lie..

  2. It’s funny isn’t it, that those who study Cameron more closely know that he will use any excuse to weasel out of a referendum, but t’other side still try and paint him as a EU-phobe?

  3. I am more exercised by the (common) claim that it is impossible to stay in the EU and not go along with every new treaty.

    Why would we make an agreement in the understanding that the other parties, collectively, will not be held to it, and if they want to change the terms later we must agree with that?

  4. anti-Lisbon referendum

    Meh?

    Cameron can’t hold an anti anything referendum. It can only be a referendum. And as you say, if peeps want out, open the bloody door chaps.

    God that woman is beyond thick. I guess we should be glad she is a journo, she could have been a politician with her mental abilities.

    Mummy x

  5. I think her comment is justifiable, it’s similar to the argument Mrs Thatcher used to make. If the government had held a referendum on banning pay over £150k a year in October last year it probably would have won, but that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t have been ideologically extreme. Similarly any number of anti civil liberty issues on the 8th July 2005 or September 2001.

  6. And Sue thinks LABOUR love Europe?

    Remind us, Sue… who took us in to Europe without a referendum?

    Who signed the Single European Act… without a referendum?

    Who signed Maastricht without a referendum?

    Get real. Lab-Lib-Tory policy on Europe has been to make steady progress towards integration. If you believe Cameron is a Eurosceptic, you are either gullible or a fool.

  7. “If the government had held a referendum on banning pay over £150k a year in October last year it probably would have won, but that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t have been ideologically extreme.”

    And the relevance of this is, what?

    ALL THREE PARTIES MADE EXPLICIT COMMITMENTS IN THEIR ELECTION MANIFESTOS TO HOLD A REFERENDUM.

    I struggle to see how doing so would therefore be “ideologically extreme”.

  8. Remind us, Sue… who took us in to Europe without a referendum?

    – Edward Heath

    Who signed the Single European Act… without a referendum?

    – Margaret Thatcher

    Who signed Maastricht without a referendum?

    – John Major

    So unless Cameron has been hypnotised by these ex Prime Ministers, what you say is irrelevant.

    I am far from convinced that Dave has changed policy on the EU, but his predecessors thoughts on the subject are inadmissible as evidence in this case.

  9. To be honest, I share Matthew’s concerns about referenda in general.

    But if we say “politicians should do what they think is right” then we’d be out of the EU like a shot and go for affiliate status or something. Or, we say as Cleanthes says, which is, a promise is a promise. If the politicians thought a referendum was a bad idea, then they should have said so earlier.

  10. “The relevance is that the population can vote for ideologically extreme measures.”

    So what? Go and read my comment again.

    This is what La Polla wrote:
    “If Cameron does hold an anti-Lisbon referendum, it will in effect be an in-or-out referendum – and out it would probably be. This is extreme ideological policymaking,”

    This applies to ALL THREE MAJOR PARTIES.

    And if it applies to all three major parties, I really really struggle to see it as extreme ideological policy making.

    The only way that this is not true is by saying that it is completely OK to break specific manifesto commitments. I submit that that’s not a strong foundation upon which to build a coherent argument.

    Comparing this to hypothetical extreme questions will not do: ALL 3 parties promised a referendum on this treaty. That the people may vote overwhelmingly for other things that you don’t like is utterly irrelevant, revealing though it may also be.

  11. So Much For Subtlety

    dearieme – “Och, stop pissing about; just nuke Brussels.”

    A girl I used to really like lives in Brussels so perhaps this is a little bit extreme. On the other hand the French have refused to invite Her Maj to D Day celebrations.

    So I think there is a simple solution – it is time to re-enact the D-Day landings. We can once more free Europe from a continent-wide undemocratic system. Play our traditional role as the beacon for freedom across the whole Continent.

    The poor serfs of Brussels are as oppressed by the EU as we are. They too deserve to live free or die trying.

    Besides, wars with France always turn out well. Admittedly wars with Germany rarely do. But at least we can get Martinique out of it.

  12. Cleanthes, you do know that calling Polly ‘La Polla’ is really rude in Spanish, don’t you? Not that I disagree with the sentiment…

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