Perfect phrase for a Guardian comment pieceSeptember 16, 2010 Tim WorstallFeminism12 CommentsBut leaving the merits of scientific evidence aside previousBlinding science on obesitynextOur EU Lords and Masters on short selling 12 thoughts on “Perfect phrase for a Guardian comment piece” Mark Wadsworth September 16, 2010 at 9:54 am Men and women are different, it’s genetically pre-programmed or else the human race would have never have been the success it is. I like this bit best: “No marks for guessing that “masculine” skills tend to be the ones with status in our particular society.” Why doesn’t she just accept that there are ‘masculine’ and ‘feminine’ skills, and ask herself how and why it came to be that the former tend to bestow ‘status’ – and then explain why that is a bad thing (if at all) and then hatch up ways of changing it (if she so wishes). Rob September 16, 2010 at 10:03 am Though she lists Mathematics and map-reading as masculine skills. Did anyone see Celebrity Mapreading on BBC1 last night? Superb stuff. Anyway, I hardly ever read the articles anymore, only the comments JuliaM September 16, 2010 at 10:09 am That /doublefacepalm vid of yours is going to be working overtime, I think… Joseph Takagi September 16, 2010 at 10:58 am history shows that whenever women start to demand equal access to what have traditionally been men’s roles, theories about their “natural” unsuitability tend to emerge. Thing is that no-one can point to the software industry and make that claim. There was never a union or guild oppressing women. You get judged by your peers on your code, and not much else. Yet there are very few good female programmers in the industry. But when you look at where women are in computing, and where they thrive, it’s in all the areas that match that whole empathising/communicating thing like business analysis. And I’m not that convinced about status. A nurse will earn a minimum of £20K. An experienced Flash developer in Yorkshire will earn 17-23K. On top of that, they enjoy enormous praise from society for what they do, including special consideration for housing. Yet my friend who developed a system to optimise the time of nurses going on patient visits? Nothing. dearieme September 16, 2010 at 11:07 am “But leaving the merits of scientific evidence aside” is an awfully girly remark. Johnathan Pearce September 16, 2010 at 11:10 am Well spotted, Tim! Brian, follower of Deornoth September 16, 2010 at 1:15 pm “very few good female programmers” In the modern world that constitutes proof that the software industry is institutionally sexist. Sobers September 16, 2010 at 2:30 pm When are women going to demand equal access to ‘traditional male roles’ such as sewer cleaning, rubbish collection, deep sea fishing, high rise construction, livestock farming, in fact all of the dirty and dangerous jobs that keep society moving? When are women going to demand parity in the accidents and deaths at work tables as well – the table here(http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/fatalities/2009-10.htm) has 151 names of which approx 20 are women. Surely the equality campaigners will want 50/50 representation as a matter of principle? If 80% of fatalities at work were women you would never hear the end of it. I suppose men are just expendable. Sobers September 16, 2010 at 2:39 pm In fact having studied the figures mentioned above more closely I see that there were only a handful (less than 6, depending on some names that could be male or female) of female deaths among employees or the self employed. One of which was a traffic accident, presumably while in a company vehicle. All the other female deaths were of members of the public, so really at random, nothing to do with their jobs. Dave September 16, 2010 at 7:17 pm “very few good female programmers” I had a chat about that with a female computer science teacher not too long ago. Her theory was that access to computers during childhood accounts for the difference. While little girls were playing with their My Little Ponies and Barbie Dolls, the boys were learning BASIC on their ZX Spectrums and C64s. To me she took the idea into ridiculous conspiracy theory territory, arguing that guys in the class were intentionally using their childhood memories to express their privilege and dominance; excluding and belittling the women in the class, who typically hadn’t owned a computer until they hit college. She ended up banning guys from chatting about games and old computers to spare the feelings of female students. As silly as that is, it’s definitely true that far more men than women grew up with home computers in the 1980s. I’m not saying that there’d be as many decent female programmers around if that wasn’t true, but I can see how it would make a difference when it comes to developing an interest and aptitude in the subject. It’ll be interesting to see if things change now that home computers are ubiquitous. Hexe Froschbein September 16, 2010 at 7:42 pm http://www.youtube.com/v/btiuKlMtxj8&fs=1 How many women apply for that kind of lofty position? Can’t complain about a glass ceiling there — the sky is the limit! David Gillies September 17, 2010 at 12:19 am Isn’t this usually your cue to trot out the Baron-Cohen autistic male brain thingy, Tim? Leave a Reply Cancel replyYour email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *Comment Name * Email * Website Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.