Just who should we support here?

Well, not \”we\”, but \”they\”:

The Muslim LGBTQI group Imaan today criticised the East End Gay Pride event, saying its organisers had close links to the English Defence League.

The event was organised for 2nd April, supposedly in retaliation to homophobic stickers being placed around East London declaring it was a ‘gay free zone’.

It\’s quite delicious really. We\’ve, in one corner, someone from the English Defence League, a not quite fascist* natalist party who are defending the right of freeborn Englishmen to indulge in a little man on man action be true to their sexuality.

Tolerance is, after all, supposde to be one of those English virtues, even if we\’ve not always lived up to the advertising.

On the other side we\’ve some nasty little religiously inspired homophobes who really ought to be demonstrated against.

So, the conundrum for the \”they\”, the lefties, who should they support?

Berry has allegedly been involved in another hard-right racist group called Stop Islamisation of Europe.

They called on the board of Pride London to take over the organisation of East End Gay Pride and organise an event that instead believed in “community cohesion and celebration of our diversity”.

Pink News reports that Berry has now resigned, while others have called for the event to be cancelled.

Ah, that\’s it. Even though Berry is doing the right thing he shouldn\’t be doing it as his heart is not pure.

Sadly, all too many also make the next leap: doing the wrong thing as long as the heart is pure is just fine, as large swathes of the 20th century showed us.

*Re the first comment: I\’m trying to look at this as if I were standing on the left…..

24 thoughts on “Just who should we support here?”

  1. The EDL are just “not quite fascist”?

    Is that a fair comment, Tim? Is anybody who opposes a perceived dangerous Islamic expansion in Europe, at best “not quite fascist”? That’s a pretty good way to stop anybody arguing isn’t it, implying that they’re at best two steps away from building gas chambers.

    The EDL has long had an LGBT section btw. Because, you know, Islam doesn’t like gays. But then, Islam doesn’t like anybody really, does it?

  2. Yeah I love the lefties interpretation of victim-hood poker…

    Gay rights rule… and unless the other side is muslim in which case muslim rights rule.

    But seriously gay (and feminist) lefties should really look at the leftist pro-islam agenda.. they’ll be oppressed long before us boring white hetero righties….

  3. ‘Harry’s Place’ are also wrestling with this – Alan A has decided that, in this case, the enemy of my enemy is NOT my friend.

    The comments are disabusing him of that notion quite handily.

  4. Ken Livingstone invited a fairly extreme-conservative Muslim scholar to speak in London after 7/7, so that he could make it clear to everyone that whatever other views one might hold, it’s agreed by all concerned that terrorism is wrong.

    Perhaps this was the right thing to do. In which case, Pride marching with the EDL in favour of gay rights would also have been better than cancelling it and cutting their ties with the brownshirts.

    Or, perhaps, sometimes if your allies on a particular issue are scumbags, even though the issue is self-evidently massively important to you, you shouldn’t go ahead with it, and Ken shouldn’t have invited Qawadari, and Pride were right to cancel this march.

    I’m genuinely torn both on whether Ken did the right thing then, and on whether Pride are doing the right thing now.

    But I’m struggling to see how you can unequivocally claim that Ken TOLERATES EVIL SCUMBAGS and that Pride CRAVENLY GAVE INTO EVIL SCUMBAGS, unless you’re actually willing to suggest that the EDL are *good*. Which Ian B is, so fuck him, but hopefully people who aren’t demented bigots aren’t.

  5. poor old john “sanctimonious twat” band, reduced to posting bollocks on tims comments thread because no one can be arsed to read his own blogs display of the owners ignorance and bigotry.

  6. No, it’s more that blog readerships have polarised since I started this lark in 2002ish (it were green fields round here when I were a lad, etc).

    So although I get pretty decent reader numbers on Banditry, and reader numbers equivalent to the daily papers on LibCon, there aren’t many places remaining run by right-wingers who are basically honest and evidence-based, with a fair number of regular commenters who are basically honest and evidence-based.

    I like having my views challenged, but more by people like Tim and KT who challenge them based on evidence than by people who think that calling me a twat is the height of debate. This is precisely why I frequently post on LC and on Banditry about why Richie is completely wrong about everything, for example.

    EDL supporters don’t fall within that group, I’m afraid. There aren’t very many Maoist advocates of jailing and/or exiling the rich still remaining, but if you can find some then I’m happy to denounce them too.

  7. Who’s an “EDL supporter”, John? Does that refer to me?

    Are you wrong about absolutely everything in the world? You appear to be.

  8. There are dickheads on the left who would deny the EDL the right to free speech and free assembly. I frequently argue against them. Obviously, that doesn’t make me a supporter of the EDL. Ditto Muslim crazies, etc.

    That doesn’t seem to be the level of affiliation you’re suggesting in comment #1 – you’re saying that they have a valid point, and that they’re a fluffy diverse organisation.

    In general – although I admit this is inductive rather than deductive – if someone says that they’re in favour of an organisation’s aims and then points out a way in which they’re good people, I assume they’re a supporter of the organisation.

    I’ll gladly retract any suggestion that you’re pro-EDL if you say that you aren’t. Separately – and this has absolutely no bearing on my willingness to retract, I’m just curious – I’d like to hear why you don’t support them.

  9. Surreptitious Evil

    Oh, right. I hadn’t realised it was “LGBTI” now. That’s apparently “inter-sex”, so I presume it will be “LGBTII” with “intra-sex” quite shortly.

    Long live the “Campaign for a Free Galillee (Splitters’ Department)”.

    Anyway, this poses no probs for a proper lefty (the “no true Scotsman” fallacy regardless). He’s a righty so, regardless of his victimhood poker status, he must be publicly humiliated and all his works cast down into the pit of iniquity.

  10. Right so the *mayor of London* hugging a well-documented jew-hating homophobe because he supposedly opposes terrorism – in the UK, note, he’s quite keen on it elsewhere – is the same thing as not objecting to the EDL participating in a gay pride march.

    Right.

  11. “you’re saying that they have a valid point, and that they’re a fluffy diverse organisation”

    On a slight aside, I saw an interview on TV with the organiser of an EDL march and a “Muslim community leader” and looking through their barely restrained anger, it was easy to see that they agreed on a whole load of things. In fact, given a calm venue and keeping a lid on emotions, I’d be almost certain they could write a joint statement agreeing on fundamental principles. Maybe I’m being utopian, though.

  12. The first I heard about this business, was when these stickers proclaiming Tower Hamlets a “Gay Free Zone”, were posted all over the lampposts. And a motley crew of actors and christians got together, and helpfully ran around the place scraping away the evidence.

    And now, it appears that the local and national LGBT organisations, who really really didn’t want to have to confront this problem, have effectively scrapped a planned Gay Pride march in the area. They chucked out the organiser, and now the march has been indefinitely postponed, kicked into the long grass.
    Instead there might be some other kind of grassroots march sometime or other, about something, somewhere, perhaps…

    They don’t dare say that they don’t dare confront islamic extremist homphobia in Tower Hamlets.

  13. @Brian, the Q is queer or questioning and I is Intersex though I would have thought LGBT adequately covered all of this but I guess it just wasn’t enough for some people.

    I don’t even know why I know this

  14. So the EDL’s LGBT division are the wrong sort of gays?

    Considering recent polls showing that 61% of British Muslims believe that homosexuality should be illegal.

    http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/assets/Living_Apart_Together_text.pdf

    In 2009, Gallup polled British, French and German Muslims on their attitudes towards homosexuality. Asked whether homosexuality was “morally acceptable”, not one of the 500 UK Muslims polled said that it was. I expect Gallup were just unlucky with their polling group 😉

    I would say that gays of any stripe have a problem with Islam and shouldn’t knock any offers of help from any quarter.

  15. “On the other side we’ve some nasty little religiously inspired homophobes who really ought to be demonstrated against.”

    I’m perplexed; who are you referring to here, Imaan? They’re a Muslim LGBTQ group. They’re obviously not homophobes. Are you stupid?

    tim adds: How about the people who were putting up the “no gays here” stickers?

  16. Witchsmeller Pursuivant

    Not all Muslims hate gays Tim. Any more than all Christians. Are you an anti-Semite too?

  17. So Much For Subtlety

    If the Left is demanding a purer-than-snow approach to a whole raft of things, it must follow they are happy with the friends they have. The Left, for instance, rarely organises anything these days without the Hard Left. So if they marched against the Vietnam War with the pro-Soviet CPGB, it must follow that they were fine with their policies in a way that they are not with the EDL. If they marched against Iraq with the SWP it must follow they think those policies are fine too.

    Interesting.

  18. ah – diversity, tolerance, multiculturism – all working so well.
    Only a matter of time before the UK is balkanised.

  19. Whom should we support?

    The East End gayers, of course! They’re entitled to be “in touch with” whomever they like. Being in touch with the EDL (who are not wrong about everything) does not detract from the fact that the event they are organising is good fun for those involved.

    But as Rob says, under the official Victimhood Poker rules, Islam trumps Christianity and once those cards are played, non-white trumps white.

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