Idiot tosh on race

The biggest delusion of all, which props up this whole debate, is the notion that black and white people forming loving relationships proves racism is being defeated: that the quality of life for Britain\’s minorities can be measured by the number of interracial relationships. But this is fantasy. Compare it with gender equality. Would anyone seriously claim that, because men and women feel attraction for each other, sexism cannot exist? From the days of master-slave girl couplings, it\’s always been clear that what people do in the bedroom is completely separate from what they do in the outside world.

Ultimately, it\’s clear that there is no single \”mixed-race\” experience – it varies with age, gender, geography and the type and number of ethnic origins a person has. And I\’d never dictate to anyone what they should call themselves. But if we want to see an end to discrimination, prejudice and inequality based on skin colour, in all forms, then there is no doubt that black and mixed-race people have to be on the same side.

Nonsense. That people of different skin colours shag each other and produce children is a) what proves the very concept of race to be nonsense and b) what is going to eliminate race as something to even discuss.

When our great great grandchildren are all with a slight cafe au lait tinge to their skin colour who in fuck is going to give a shit?

28 thoughts on “Idiot tosh on race”

  1. “…then there is no doubt that black and mixed-race people have to be on the same side.”

    and whom, might I ask, is on the other ‘side’..?

  2. It is purely a social phenomenon—skin color runs in families and families are the foundation of our social structure. That academic achievement makes children of color the victims of bullying for being “too white” is one of the prime bases of economic equality. Pushing blacks through school without a need for actual achievement makes the problem worse by reinforcing the stigma against affirmative action hires. Barack Obama was pushed to the top without his having to work hard—look what we’ve got.

  3. A straight sexist man who thinks women who are semi intelligents brutes still has to has to have relationships with them – not true for a racist who thinks the same about different races.

  4. That last sentence is a gem of confused thinking: the only way to end discrimination based on skin colour is an alliance against white people, based on, er…

    ‘Black and brown, unite and frown.’

  5. That mixed race relationships are socially acceptable in many areas of society is, while hardly “proof that racism is being defeated”, surely indicative that racism is on the wane in society?

    “I’ve nothing against X but I wouldn’t want my daughter to marry one of them,” was a commonly stereotype of the 70s British semi-covert racist.

  6. “That people of different skin colours shag each other and produce children is a) what proves the very concept of race to be nonsense” may be the stupidest thing I’ve ever read in one of your posts. Did you really intend to equate “race” to “species”?

  7. So Much For Subtlety

    The problem with assuming that race is going to disappear as an issue is the assumption that it is only White people whose opinions count.

    In the real world racism is alive and well. And Whites have been disappearing from much of the rest of the world. Imperialism took Whites to a large number of places. Anti-Imperialism not only destroyed their political power, it has more or less destroyed the remaining White communities. We can see this in Zimbabwe. As we have in Algeria, Kenya and so on. It is soon likely to happen in South Africa. In Latin America, where Whites have held power for a long time, it looks as if their days are numbered in many countries.

    In short, European liberals may have given up racism, but the rest of the world has not. If Blacks and Whites cannot live together in Zimbabwe, or Malaysia, or India, or Pakistan, or Algeria (for various definitions of Black) then they won’t be able to in Paris or London either.

    Our great-grand-children will not be coffee coloured. They will be Black. And they will hate us as if we were Nazis.

  8. Our great-grand-children will not be coffee coloured. They will be Black. And they will hate us as if we were Nazis.

    You seem to be conflating “driven out” – which is happening but in which case they are not going to be ‘our’ great-grand-children (speaking as a honky, myself) and inter-breeding, in which case they’re not going to be ‘black’.

    Especially as most of the races are a somewhat paler shade than Mr Mugabe. And the light coloured mutations are not recessive.

  9. Gingers are meant to be an endangered group due to intermarriage and the recessiveness of red hair and even they are expected to have many more generations left in them. The prospect of a coffee-coloured melting pot is something of a fantasy (or nightmare for eg the BNP) that wouldn’t emerge for hundreds of years.

    The whole idea of sides is weird. It is easy for Obama to be portrayed as “tending to black” but he’s mixed race. It would be just as easy for my son to be portrayed as “tending to white”. He’s equally mixed race. I’d rather he didn’t grow up to trade off his blue eyes to march darkies like myself off to the gas chambers but don’t really see that as being a call for him to align to a “side” that would exclude his mum and that side of our family.

  10. Harker’s last three columns have been devoted to insisting that racism is more prevalent that you imagine. His data is thin enough. (My favourite is Lewis Hamilton’s claim that he was being penalised for being black. “White people would probably say [it was] paranoia,” Harker writes. Weeeell.) But what also irritates me is that he never seems to offer proposals for how these things could be improved.

    If Blacks and Whites cannot live together in Zimbabwe, or Malaysia, or India, or Pakistan, or Algeria (for various definitions of Black) then they won’t be able to in Paris or London either.

    You’re not comparing like with like. More than one point: (a) South Africans and Zimbabweans, at least, who’ve seen and enacted the gravest anti-white bigotry in recent years, have memories – real memories – of their past subordination and (b) interracial relationships are, as far as I’m aware, uncommon in South Africa (and, I’d guess, the others) and they’re not in Britain.

  11. Race is very much real, and I’ve noticed it’s only white people who make a virtue out of pretending that it isn’t.

  12. Actually, Steve, on the left ‘race is really, really, real, really’ when it suits the argument being made, and ‘race is a racist invention, invented by white racists’ when that suits. Bait and switch, now and forever.

  13. Dennis the Peasant

    To whom will it matter? Well, in the USA it would matter to the thousands who make a nice, middle-class living serving the racial injustice industry.

    That’s who.

  14. So Much For Subtlety, Catholics & Protestants have historically had difficulty living together in Ireland, but been able to in London and in many other places around the world.

    As for our great-grandchildren hating us, I think you overestimate our importance to the rest of humanity. You need a connection to someone to hate them – the history of Ireland or the Middle East is not that of rampant hatred of Tongans.

  15. “When our great great grandchildren are all with a slight cafe au lait tinge to their skin colour who in fuck is going to give a shit?”

    This argument says the solution is not an intellectual one, but simply to remove all but one races. I can’t say I like that.

  16. Surreptitious Evil

    This argument says the solution is not an intellectual one, but simply to remove all but one races.

    I don’t think so. I think it is saying that when there are minimal overt differences between the various races of humanity (after all, we are all one species), it is going to be harder both for the bigots and for the professionally aggrieved to get wound up about it.

  17. Unimportant Quibbler

    SE it is going to be harder both for the bigots and for the professionally aggrieved to get wound up about it.

    Not least because, if somebody is 1/2 white Anglo-Saxon, 1/4 Indo-Caribbean, 1/4 West African, say, then where the hell would the BNP deport them to?

  18. So Much For Subtlety

    Surreptitious Evil – “You seem to be conflating “driven out” – which is happening but in which case they are not going to be ‘our’ great-grand-children (speaking as a honky, myself) and inter-breeding, in which case they’re not going to be ‘black’.”

    We have no where really to be driven out too, do we? But I was using Black in both the racial and political sense. Half Black people identify as Black. See Obama. That is assuming that even part descendants of the present inhabitants have any future in these isles.

    You can see this in America. Black Americans have not disappeared into the melting pot. And the Curley effect is strongly at work. Cities which have Black majorities tend to have Black politics – which is usually little more than a demand that Whites gives them money. Those governments drive Whites out as, although it is rarely openly stated, a matter of policy. See Detroit. Whites can flee to the suburbs or to Whiter states – as they are doing from California. But eventually they too will run out of places to go.

    It is just not the case that only Whites have agency. Nor is it the case that racism has been given up by non-Whites. The future is one of increased racism, not less.

  19. So Much For Subtlety

    BenSix – “arker’s last three columns have been devoted to insisting that racism is more prevalent that you imagine. …. But what also irritates me is that he never seems to offer proposals for how these things could be improved.”

    Of course he does not want these things improved. Why would he? He makes a nice living from grievances. Notice, as I said, we are not in a post-racial world not because anyone is discriminated against any more, but because Blacks want to keep the racism alive.

    “You’re not comparing like with like. More than one point: (a) South Africans and Zimbabweans, at least, who’ve seen and enacted the gravest anti-white bigotry in recent years, have memories – real memories – of their past subordination”

    The majority of Zimbabweans have no memory of Rhodesia. In fact when Mugabe started his campaign, I would guess that a near majority had no memory of Smith’s government. It was about twenty years after, no? Makes no difference at all. Notice the support that Mugabe is getting from people who have had even less experience of racism – most of the UN for instance. Direct experience has nothing to do with it at all.

    “(b) interracial relationships are, as far as I’m aware, uncommon in South Africa (and, I’d guess, the others) and they’re not in Britain.”

    They were pretty common in South Africa actually. Which is why they needed a law.

    18 Tracy W – “Catholics & Protestants have historically had difficulty living together in Ireland, but been able to in London and in many other places around the world.”

    You been to a Celtic v Rangers game lately?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Henry_Wilson,_1st_Baronet

    Murdered by two members of the IRA. Or more accurately, murdered by two London born members of the IRA. There is no money in hating Protestants outside Ireland. It is not a career. There is in racism.

    “As for our great-grandchildren hating us, I think you overestimate our importance to the rest of humanity. You need a connection to someone to hate them – the history of Ireland or the Middle East is not that of rampant hatred of Tongans.”

    The people who will continue to live in these isles will have a connection to us. Just as the Turks do to the Greeks who used to live in Asia Minor. Or the Arabs to the Romans. Or White Americans to Native Americans for that matter.

  20. Does anyone consider that blacks and whites may melt away in the face of chinese multiplication.
    What is happening in the UK seems rather like eugenics of a left wing sort.

  21. SMFS –

    In fact when Mugabe started his campaign, I would guess that a near majority had no memory of Smith’s government. It was about twenty years after, no?

    No. Smith stood down in 1979 and Mugabe took over in 1980. (Unless I have something terribly wrong.)

    They were pretty common in South Africa actually. Which is why they needed a law.

    Got a stat for that?

    by one estimate, four of every 100 marriages are between the major race groups: black, colored (mulatto), Asian, and white. Given the country’s troubled history, many see this number as quite high. And it’s expected to grow.

    Black-white marriages are the rarest – and get the most attention. Some such couples are called “Top Decks,” after a candy bar that’s both white and milk chocolate.

  22. Race is a fact. It derives from young men and women tending to marry those within the geographic range of travel and survival to adulthood tending to bias that group in favour of those with greater natural aptitude to survive in that environment. Hence paler skin in northern latitudes, darker skin near the equator, long-distance runners in the high-altitude countries like Kenya and Ethiopia, sprinters in West Africa. Racism is not a physical fact – it is an attitude and facts alone cannot destroy it (although they can help).
    Racism is wrong but one needs to be careful to distinguish between recognition of reality (my genetic makeup means that sunburn is the most frequent of my sporting injuries – even in Wales) and stupid attitudes – a few hundred years ago, the greatest punishment imposed by a London Guild was on a member calling someone “a Scot”.
    PC scientists claim that we are all descended from a single African woman (how do they know she was African. why define the ultimate ancestor as a woman rather than a man – the latter is more plausible).
    @ Surreptitious Evil – thirty-odd years ago I heard that sent up by a RAF pilot who, after spending three or four hours mugging up the next day’s route, said “I don’t dislike Navigators but I wouldn’t let my daughter to marry one of them”

    Tim adds: “(how do they know she was African. why define the ultimate ancestor as a woman rather than a man – the latter is more plausible)”

    Because they were studying the DNA, in the mitochondria, that we get from our Mothers. Therefore, anything that the found would be about female descent.

    There are plenty of other studies that look at Y chromosomes, that we get from fathers. Shrug.

  23. So Much For Subtlety

    BenSix – “No. Smith stood down in 1979 and Mugabe took over in 1980. (Unless I have something terribly wrong.)”

    Not when Mugabe took power. Because that was followed by about twenty years of letting bygones be bygones. When the local Black population did not manifest notable anti-White rage. When Mugabe started to lose elections, then he threw over to the racist grand standing. That was about 2000 I think.

    “Got a stat for that?”

    Not off hand but remember that South Africa has entire mixed race communities like the Cape Coloureds. People have been doing the horizontal hornpipe for a long time.

    And you can see that what Whites actually did is not all that important because Whites are not much safer places where oppression is a long distant memory. How long do you think you would live safely in, say, Jamaica – outside the compound of a guarded tourist facility? Just as an ordinary middle class resident? How long do you think it would take before someone decided to get their own back? It is not that they were oppressed in recent times. It is that someone taught them to hate your skin colour.

  24. I was at one point in 2010 stuck in Johannesberg airport for six hours, and admit to counting inter-racial couples passing to keep from boredom; black men with white girlfriends were common enough not to note, but I don’t think I saw a single white man with a black girlfriend.

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