Idiots on drugs

A new report warns that the commercial cultivation of cannabis poses a “significant risk” to Britain linked to burglary, violence and the use of guns.

The number of farms detected has more than doubled in recent years to reach almost 8,000, with many now set up in homes or flats rather than factories in order to spread the risk.

More people are also growing their own drugs as a result of the economic downturn, according to the Association of Chief Police Officers study.

The ACPO lead on cannabis cultivation, Met commander Allan Gibson, said: “Commercial cannabis cultivation continues to pose a significant risk to the UK. Increasing numbers of organised crime groups are diverting into this area of criminality but we are determined to continue to disrupt such networks and reduce the harm caused by drugs.

The risks are caused by the damn stuff being illegal.

There are vast areas of agricutural (and even forest) land in the UK where you could grow the stuff without problem. Plus plenty of factories oop north that could be used for hydroponics.

The only reason there is any danger at all is that Plod will be chasing you if you do so. Stop Plod chasing and the \”risk\” goes away.

20 thoughts on “Idiots on drugs”

  1. Well, that’s the theory. But what about all those men bearing clipboards? Will they not displace those “unqualified” people who are presently growing the stuff? Leaving them as unemployed, and wanting the same money?

    Not sure it will make much difference. If they weren’t growing this, they’d be breaking the law some other way

  2. Nearly all newly diagnosed schizophrenics turn out to be heavy users of skunk.

    And it’s skunk, not the backyard grass you toked back in the day, that the Bill is after.

    And the Bill has found that you can’t disguise the heat from the grow lamps from a thermal imaging camera in a helicopter.

  3. Even if that is true, blokeinfrance, I’m not convinced you’ve got the direction of causality right. Perhaps they’re self-medicating?

  4. “Nearly all newly diagnosed schizophrenics turn out to be heavy users of skunk.”

    BULLSHIT but even if this was so, and what? Stop several million enjoying a personal pleasure because one individual within that number turns out to be a nut?

    What the fuck is wrong with you why is the earth infested with you fucking rats.

  5. X
    And top of the morning to you too!
    Matthew
    Maybe the causation is backwards? And backwards in time too?
    Tim Almond
    Look under google scholar and there are 960 citations.

  6. Not sure it will make much difference. If they weren’t growing this, they’d be breaking the law some other way

    Hmm, once a criminal, always a criminal argument. Might as well lock ’em and throw the key away then. I suppose that will keep the DM headline writers happy for a while.

  7. So Much For Subtlety

    X – “BULLSHIT but even if this was so, and what? Stop several million enjoying a personal pleasure because one individual within that number turns out to be a nut?”

    I am curious as to how far you want to take this argument. There was an interesting drug called Fen-phen or fenfluramine/phentermine. It was sold for helping people lose weight. And indeed it worked. But in about one in a billion people, it may have caused enough heart damage to kill them. May I ask the obvious question – you think that this drug – with positive uses unlike cannabis – should still be legal?

    “What the fuck is wrong with you why is the earth infested with you fucking rats.”

    Yes. That convinces me there’s nothing wrong with marijuana at all.

    7SimonF – “Hmm, once a criminal, always a criminal argument. Might as well lock ‘em and throw the key away then. I suppose that will keep the DM headline writers happy for a while.”

    Yes, once a criminal, always a criminal. At least if our re-offending rates are anything to go by. We should, indeed, lock them up and throw away the key. It should keep most people happy. Unlike the policy you seem to support which is to allow people out after token prison terms following token investigations of crimes that are out of control.

  8. “. May I ask the obvious question – you think that this drug – with positive uses unlike cannabis – should still be legal?”

    Comes down to context for me, a pharmaceutical drug aimed at treating medical conditions needs to be as safe as possible , a recreational drug on the other hand can carry a whole host of possible side effects and as long as its used by consenting adults, I see no issue…heard of alcohol? Are you going to propose banning that?

    “Yes. That convinces me there’s nothing wrong with marijuana at all.”

    I am not trying to convince you, you sitting there believing you need to be convinced of something before a consenting adult has “the right” to an experience of there choice is the problem……….

  9. SMFS
    That’s a wrinkle I hadn’t thought of.
    So we apply the precautionary principle before legalising drugs which might do us good. But when we take drugs that we know do us harm… fuck it, I’ll have another glass.

  10. So Much For Subtlety

    X – “Comes down to context for me, a pharmaceutical drug aimed at treating medical conditions needs to be as safe as possible , a recreational drug on the other hand can carry a whole host of possible side effects and as long as its used by consenting adults, I see no issue…heard of alcohol? Are you going to propose banning that?”

    Why the double standard? Why shouldn’t a consenting adult risk heart disease on the advice of their doctor? What is it about marijuana that makes it more suitable for individual decision making? Not that marijuana is used by consenting adults. Virtually everyone I know used it as a child.

    No I am not going to propose banning alcohol although a case could be made.

    “I am not trying to convince you, you sitting there believing you need to be convinced of something before a consenting adult has “the right” to an experience of there choice is the problem……….”

    Well it is illegal and so you do have some convincing to do. But illegal things are often illegal for good reason. If you want to change the status quo you will need a reason to do so.

    10blokeinfrance – “That’s a wrinkle I hadn’t thought of. So we apply the precautionary principle before legalising drugs which might do us good. But when we take drugs that we know do us harm… fuck it, I’ll have another glass.”

    Yeah it seems a bit weird doesn’t it? But those laws are not applied retrospectively. Which is a good thing or penicillin and aspirin would be illegal. I doubt either coffee or beer would be allowed today if they were newly invented. The laws are stupid. But that doesn’t mean they are wrong for marijuana. Besides, alcohol has such positive health benefits it probably outweighs any harm. Not true for marijuana as far as we can see.

  11. Why the double standard? Because life is more complex than the black and white, statistical type analysis you appear to gaze at it through.

    Why shouldn’t a consenting adult risk heart disease on the advice of their doctor? No doubt as there are viable alternatives on the market or in development.

    “What is it about marijuana that makes it more suitable for individual decision making?”

    The user is deeply involved in the experience, it temporarily shapes how the individual perceives and communicates with the world, the more engaged one is in an experience the more information they have to base there decisions on and decide what risks they are willing to take in part exchange for said experience.

    “Not that marijuana is used by consenting adults. Virtually everyone I know used it as a child.”

    Oh yes its not used by adults at all..just children…..

    “Well it is illegal and so you do have some convincing to do. But illegal things are often illegal for good reason. If you want to change the status quo you will need a reason to do so.”

    Piss off you fucking monkey, again you don’t need to be convinced of anything,your just another political quack jumping on the bandwagon to stamp on those without a voice, who cant respond to the legislative madness that dictates how they are to live there life behind closed doors and even so they continue there existence without causing you grievance or harm.

    And while you foam at the mouth about someone having the odd smoke we have idiots with qualifications in history trying to direct the country’s finances and in control of processes that have direct impacts on all of our life’s and the generations ahead but don’t you worry about that, you just focus on the areas the gang already have your back.

  12. So Much For Subtlety

    X – “Why the double standard? Because life is more complex than the black and white, statistical type analysis you appear to gaze at it through.”

    You mouth the words but you show no signs of understanding the concept. Yes, life is more complex than the black-and-white, good-guy vs. bad-guys approach you are taking. The reasons for marijuana being banned are no different than any other complex political topic, but you insist on reducing it to some childish rant. It isn’t so simple. Nor are the argument in favour of a ban as childishly simple as you would like to think. You need to grow up and think for yourself for a change.

    “Why shouldn’t a consenting adult risk heart disease on the advice of their doctor? No doubt as there are viable alternatives on the market or in development.”

    There are viable alternatives to smoking marijuana too. Not smoking it for instance. And there aren’t. The makers have had to pay out over $20 billion. No one is going to make a similar pill again. But it doesn’t matter. The point is the issue is the same.

    “The user is deeply involved in the experience, it temporarily shapes how the individual perceives and communicates with the world, the more engaged one is in an experience the more information they have to base there decisions on and decide what risks they are willing to take in part exchange for said experience.”

    That is an interesting use of the word engaged. I have met heroin users. They tend to be very engaged with their drug of choice. But no one in their right mind would say that engagement leads to better decision making. Your defence is that people like getting stoned and this is more important than fighting obesity which is merely going to kill them? In consultation with their doctor who merely has a decade or so of education to inform their decision?

    “Oh yes its not used by adults at all..just children…..”

    In my experience most people grow out of it fast. And virtually everyone who uses used as a child. When their decision making skills were not the best.

    “Piss off you fucking monkey, again you don’t need to be convinced of anything,your just another political quack jumping on the bandwagon to stamp on those without a voice, who cant respond to the legislative madness that dictates how they are to live there life behind closed doors and even so they continue there existence without causing you grievance or harm.”

    Marijuana users cause me massive amounts of harm. Every time someone’s car is smashed for no good reason or there is blood and glass all over the street outside. Again you are doing well on the convincing front. Nor have you even bothered to try to engage the actual argument – which is a rather clever and subtle one. Yet again you prefer the cartoon colouring book approach that denies the complexity of the world. Lame.

    “And while you foam at the mouth about someone having the odd smoke”

    The only person even coming close to foaming at the mouth would be you wouldn’t it? I am perfectly calm and relaxed. Why wouldn’t I be? How could I lose this argument!

    “we have idiots with qualifications in history trying to direct the country’s finances and in control of processes that have direct impacts on all of our life’s and the generations ahead”

    Indeed. And those idiots are in favour of at least decriminalization – which is de facto the case in Britain – if not legalisation.

    “but don’t you worry about that, you just focus on the areas the gang already have your back.”

    Crime is a bigger problem in the UK than the economy. And the nice thing about drugs is that they enable the sociopaths among us with some high degree of accuracy. Everyone knows that drugs are illegal and using them means a life of crime and violence. Causing massive harm to your loved ones and everyone else. Some of us see this as a bonus and so voluntarily take drugs. Drug laws enable us to identify those people before they become murderers. Or they should.

  13. I suppose that if we decriminalised drugs we’d leave it to the planners.
    Since council tenants, for some unaccountable reason (the ingrates!) do not want drugs on their estates, the druggies would have to have somewhere nice and middle class to go.
    So hands up all those who want a crack den or dope farm next door? No nimby-ing now.

  14. So let’s weigh up the good and bad of legalizing cannabis:

    Harmful effect of legalization:
    – Heavy cannabis use is associated with psychosis. If you are willing to assume the link is causal, then a plausible estimate is that 800 cases of psychosis each year are due to cannabis use. Plausibly, about 14% of young people suffering schizophrenia are ill because they smoked cannabis. (“Nearly all” is just a polemical invention.) (Scroll down here for the review paper those numbers come from.)

    If cannabis were legalized, it’s plausible (but not certain) that more people would use it, so other things being equal, more psychosis would result.

    Beneficial effects of legalization:
    – We could control the CBN and THC content.
    – We could put health warnings on the packets, alerting people at high risk of psychosis to the dangers
    – We could tax the stuff, so that the government made money out of the trade, rather than spending it on law enforcement.
    – The proceeds of the trade would no longer go to criminal gangs
    – Liberty would be increased
    – Respect for the law would be increased
    – Alcohol consumption might fall

    It doesn’t seem close to me.

  15. “You mouth the words but you show no signs of understanding the concept.”

    Why because your a point of authority and you have decided so? In the same way your authority allows you to decide the drug in question has absolutely no positive benefits eh?

    “There are viable alternatives to smoking marijuana too. Not smoking it for instance”

    Nice of you to tell people who to live there lives quack, maybe you should join parliament?

    “And there aren’t. The makers have had to pay out over $20 billion. No one is going to make a similar pill again. But it doesn’t matter. The point is the issue is the same.:

    There are a number of FDA approved drugs that address this issue in a safe manner.

    “That is an interesting use of the word engaged. I have met heroin users.”

    So I have and that’s why I would say only a fucking idiot would call them “engaged” in the experience, when its clear for all to see they are highly addicted and controlled by the experience.

    “But no one in their right mind would say that engagement leads to better decision making.”

    That sounds quite funny and your right as is clearly demonstrated by our politicians and bureaucrats complete lack of engagement in reality, yet there decision are still on the ball eh?

    “your defence is that people like getting stoned and this is more important than fighting obesity which is merely going to kill them?”

    Not a defence, again its context, I don’t expect you to understand your a state nanny bitch.

    “In my experience most people grow out of it fast. And virtually everyone who uses used as a child. When their decision making skills were not the best.”

    And that being your experience you assume that those that continue to use it must be “childish” with “decision making skills” how intelligent of you.

    “Marijuana users cause me massive amounts of harm. Every time someone’s car is smashed for no good reason or there is blood and glass all over the street outside”

    The above is the profile of alcohol, not Marijuana, you come across as one of these people who are oh so inconvenienced by the thought of the actions of others, sat on your high horse weighing up the evidence, convinced your the one to be convinced…

    “The only person even coming close to foaming at the mouth would be you wouldn’t it? I am perfectly calm and relaxed. Why wouldn’t I be? How could I lose this argument!”

    Yawns

    “Crime is a bigger problem in the UK than the economy.”

    No, Marijuana is not a bigger issue than the economy to supports the live of every individual in this county.

    “Everyone knows that drugs are illegal and using them means a life of crime and violence. Causing massive harm to your loved ones and everyone else”

    What a pathetic stereotype, your breadth of life experience is laughable, that is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard someone say you life sterile impotent fool, I literally can no longer speak with you, good bye.

  16. A year of time:

    Alcohol related deaths: 8,790

    Tobacco related deaths: 86,500

    Drug poisoning deaths: 2,747

    Marijuana related deaths 17

    ——–

    Alcohol related hospitaslization 100000

    Marijuana related hospitalization 750.

    Screw it, I cant even be bothered to go into violent crime and the huge social damage caused by alcohol per year compared to marijuana, yet even so i would never state that using alcohol means a life of crime and violence, in the process causing massive harm to your loved ones and everyone else.

    Yes its true that having an alcoholic in the home does cause a huge amount of damage to the family compared to a smoker, and alcohol abuse by far leads to crime of all kinds in comparison to marjuana, but to assume any one who touches it will follow this route is ridiculous beyond belief.

    We have these kinds of people writing leglislation to adress the massively complex issue of drug use,abuse and experimentation.

    Does marjijuana have issues? Yes, are these issues anything along the lines of “Nearly all newly diagnosed schizophrenics turn out to be heavy users of skunk” No..your wild dramatic accusations make me fucking sick.

    What is the best way to adress the issues? Push its entire use underground and punish those who do use it when ever they come into contact with the authority in society “because you think they will be a murderer”? Or do educate, to create awareness and responcibility in those who do choose to use it, so they may do so wisely?

    Naaa, we will just keep it underground for you scared ill informed confused twits, your like a cancer on peoples freedom.

  17. So Much For Subtlety

    X – “Why because your a point of authority and you have decided so? In the same way your authority allows you to decide the drug in question has absolutely no positive benefits eh?”

    No because you continue to behave like a child. I am open to the idea that marijuana use has positive benefits. You have not shown me that it does. Better minds than you have decided that it does not and its use is harmful. Hence it is banned. So why wouldn’t that be a reasonable position to start from?

    “Nice of you to tell people who to live there lives quack, maybe you should join parliament?”

    Maybe I should. But you will notice that I was not telling people how to live their lives. You know, if you want to argue that marijuana does not affect cognitive function, you are not off to a good start. You’re. How. Their.

    “There are a number of FDA approved drugs that address this issue in a safe manner.”

    Name three.

    “So I have and that’s why I would say only a fucking idiot would call them “engaged” in the experience, when its clear for all to see they are highly addicted and controlled by the experience.”

    Well whether they are controlled by the heroin experience is debatable. But the rest is what engaged means. They really like their drugs. How is this not engaged in the sense you used it?

    “Not a defence, again its context, I don’t expect you to understand your a state nanny bitch.”

    Context for what? And your defence was very specifically that marijuana users like to use and this justified their usage.

    “And that being your experience you assume that those that continue to use it must be “childish” with “decision making skills” how intelligent of you.”

    Questions usually have question marks at the end. Marijuana clearly damages cognitive function. As anyone who has ever talked to a heavy user knows. It is possible they are no longer fit to make adult decisions if they used too much as children. A worthy topic to study.

    “The above is the profile of alcohol, not Marijuana”

    Indeed it is also a profile of alcohol. Proving that the problem is arseholes, not drugs. But the drugs are a useful indicator of the arseholes.

    “No, Marijuana is not a bigger issue than the economy to supports the live of every individual in this county.”

    Marijuana per se? No. The criminal underclass that uses it regularly? Yes. The economy is not going away. Cameron can’t even do much about it. He can do a lot about crime.

    “What a pathetic stereotype, your breadth of life experience is laughable, that is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard someone say you life sterile impotent fool”

    Really? So are you claiming that drugs are not illegal? That using them is not a criminal act as the law stands now? That heroin use is not strongly associated with property crime as is marijuana? That parents are not devastated when children OD? What?

    “I literally can no longer speak with you, good bye.”

    Still foaming at the mouth I see.

  18. “That heroin use is not strongly associated with property crime as is marijuana?”

    What, so doctors can use diamorphine and they are a vile criminal underclass? Are they regulated….?

    The nonsense surrounding the arguments above proves how illiberal you lot really are.

    I fancy my health would be far better maintained with a couple of mild smokes rather than a few social dodgy chemically enhanced social ‘drinks’.

    do yourself a favour and spend twenty minutes watching this….pertinent at 3:23

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap2ss-Wz6Fo&feature=related

    quality

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