This isn\’t quite what you think it is Seumas

But the shift in women\’s attitudes goes far beyond a reaction to the assault from Cameron and George Osborne. Women in Britain are now significantly to the left of men – and more socially liberal – on most key political controversies of the day.

I\’m afraid that it really isn\’t that more women are now \”on the left\”. It\’s that the definition of what is left is now more amenable to the way that women have always thought politically.

\”Left\” used to mean all that proletarian stuff you believe in, the way in which thw roking class would seize the reins of power. Now it\’s about higher child benefit and free creches. Yes, you\’ve got more women on your side now: but only because you\’ve changed what your side means rather than by convincing women that your side is correct.

20 thoughts on “This isn\’t quite what you think it is Seumas”

  1. Two lefts: (well, two and a half). The “Old Left” of the trades unionists and the Marxists. And the New Left, who are actually older than the old left: the evangelical progressives.

    The interesting thing about the Older Left is that it has been, from the start, dominated by women. Goes back to Hannah More and the Bluestockings. And that itself is an alliance, broadly, of two movements. The Crazies (Feminists who are a kind of mixture of a religious cult and a conspiracy theory) and what we might call “Union Feminism” which is not particularly ideological but- as with trades unionism- is about getting whatever benefits you can for your own class and screw everybody else. Although the Crazies don’t want you to do that in the Biblical sense because, the patriarchy, etc.

    So the point is, with the death of the other left, all that was left was the Bluestockings and their wet, browbeaten menfolk. And here we are.

  2. Crass generalisation here: women have a tendency to want everything to be “nice”, as in “all must have prizes”. Their tender hearts are more easily touched by simplistic lefty messages about “fairness”, especially the sort of fairness where the State becomes their substitute daddy and husband.

    Men, low testosterone liberals and unreconstructed commies aside, tend to instinctively know better.

  3. Steve,

    That’s similar to my rationalisation of the appeal of socialism / communism to the young.

    The family is quite a “too each according to his need” sort of organisation. Parents (or the state through the parents) provide money, food, shelter. You are taken each day to a more-or-less regulated environment where, mostly, you do what you are told. And then you go to university which is, in many cases, school with booze and without uniforms.

    So it isn’t unreasonable for kids / young adults to extrapolate from their experience to the wider world. Unfortunately, their experience has been so narrow that they fall in to numerous category errors. The most common being “but the world should be fair!”

    Entropy (and its lesser shadow, regression to the mean) simply doesn’t give a shit about your (generic, not even hinting you, Steve, think this way) ideas of fairness (or mine, or Christian Aid’s or …)

  4. Oh, and academics never really leave that sort of environment – whether they are teaching at university or school. The support framework is still there. Hence, you might suggest (although there are other factors, clearly) the preponderance of lefty delusion within those circles.

  5. @SE
    Strange how we see things from the perspective of our own lives.
    Most youngsters haven’t , of course gone through university. The bank of Mum & Dad is much more a middle class thing than working class. Most youngsters find out the world ain’t fair the day after they leave school. Yet it’s the middle classes produce more right of center voters in that age group.

  6. Incidentally, that’s why I despair of right of center & particularly libertarian politics. Mostly it’s aimed at the haves. Intellectual arguments for intellectuals. Ordinary people vote for socialism for security. The lie there’s a land of milk & honey out there if only…

  7. @BiS said: Incidentally, thats why I despair of right of center & particularly libertarian politics. Mostly it

  8. @BiS said: Incidentally, thats why I despair of right of center & particularly libertarian politics. Mostly its aimed at the haves. Intellectual arguments for intellectuals. Ordinary people vote for socialism for security. The lie there

  9. @BiS said: Incidentally, thats why I despair of right of center & particularly libertarian politics. Mostly its aimed at the haves. Intellectual arguments for intellectuals. Ordinary people vote for socialism for security. The lie theres a land of milk & honey out there if only

  10. @BiS said: Incidentally, thats why I despair of right of center & particularly libertarian politics. Mostly its aimed at the haves. Intellectual arguments for intellectuals. Ordinary people vote for socialism for security. The lie theres a land of milk & honey out there if only

    I HAVE TO AGREE WITH THIS IN CAPITALS.

    The big failing of those of us at least fiscally and economically on the ‘right’ – aside from, generally, being too busy getting on with our lives while assuming that the self-evident truths of Adam Smith, Hayek, friedman et al will eventually out – is that we have not, enough of us, made the case that FREE MARKETS ARE A BENEFIT TO THE POOR.

    Some nominally on our side have actively made the opposite case. Not that I really think of her as a fellow traveller, but that fuckwit Theresa May admitting that the Conservatives were ‘the nasty party’ – presumably because they don’t believe in keeping people in tenements in the Gorbals – is the most egregious case in point that I can call to mind.

  11. Interested: my sympathies. It is infuriating too, to those of us who rarely pipe up, but come here to read and maybe learn.

  12. The purpose of the left is to hate, its got nothing to do with ideology.

    The defining quality of the left is loyalty to the left, but beyond that the other thing that binds them is hatred of the tories.

    Its nothing to do with social collectives or fairness or whatever, its all about knowing who you hate, and hate they do.

    I saw the leftie comic Mark Thomas recently, he stood up full of self satisfaction at his moral and intellectual left wing superiority and spewed hatred of the tories .

    He knows what he hates, and it is the bedrock of all his views. He associates tories with english /anglo-saxons and loves to harm all and any of these.

  13. perhaps one day the “tories” will decide that they cannot be hated in their own land any more, and will link arms in the North, working down to the south coast, sweeping those who hate them before them.

    The left cannot rid themselves of the tories, they need the money.

  14. Mr Bonk.
    Never conflate the left with the good ordinary folk who vote for them. Give people an alternative & they’ll take it.

  15. It is said that men marry women hoping they will stay the same (conservatives) while women marry men intending to change them (progressives). This is entirely consistent with the appeal of the left to a female mindset of matriarchal control and fairness – perhaps that’s why they used to call it mother russia? Having said all that I think the earlier comment from SE put it perfectly.

  16. I feel I must return here and right a wrong concerning leftie comic Mark Thomas ( post 16).

    He did not rant hatred for an hour and a half, just occasionally drifted into it, the show was about his father and his relationship with his father and his fathers decline into chronic illness – his dad was hard working, Thatcherite, opera loving builder.

    The show was actually a night well spent, the episodes of leftie hatred fairly short and infrequent and not really the flavour of the night.

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