What an interesting point about UKIP

A recent audit of Ukip’s support showed its supporters were more likely to be working class than those of any Westminster party.

No, this isn\’t saying that the majority of UKIP supporters are working class. Rather, that the proportion of working class supporters (I assume they mean members but I\’m not sure) is higher than in any other party.

Rather backs up my long held belief (and I\’m most certainly not the only one who believes this) that the first Westminster seat (s), assuming they come at all, are far more likely to come from Labour\’s industrial heartlands than from the Tory south.

Yes, of course there\’s a portion of \”I\’m mad as hell and I\’m not going to take it any more\” to the party\’s support. But that mad as hell is more vicious in the divide between the skinny latte sipping Islingtonians and the working classes than it is between Tories and whatever the Notting Hill set are.

Another way of putting the same thing is that both the working class and the Islingtonians are profoundly conservative: but they\’re conservative about very different things. Thus much of the rift.

BTW, please note, yes still UKIP me: but I\’m nothing official. This is just me talkin\’, not anything ex cathedra.

22 thoughts on “What an interesting point about UKIP”

  1. A view I’ve put here & other places is there’s considerable appetite for the libertarian flavour of politics amongst the working class. UKIP with its simple, accessible message is benefiting from that.
    It’s regrettable that so much of the rest libertaria has got its head jammed so firmly up its own arse.
    Sorry, but the average bloke has not in the slightest interest in wading through the prolixity of Ayn Rand in search of gems of wisdom. He doesn’t give a toss how many Austrian economist can dance on the head of a pin. He wants to know what it can do for him in terms he can relate to.
    If libertarianism wants to be more than an intellectual exercise it needs to get its act together. Learn from its enemies. If socialism had never ventured outside of Bloomsbury drawing rooms there would have been no Labour Party to represent the trade union movement. Yet intellectual libertarians seem to spend more time disparaging UKIP than supporting it.

  2. So Much For Subtlety

    We have a situation where the major parties have been captured by our version of the Enarchists – the oh-so-clever self-regarding metropolitan elites. All three of them are more or less indistinguishable. Clegg used to be a Tory. Cameron is only a Tory because he is too posh to be otherwise. Miliband could have easily been a Lib-Dem. We have three North London Lib-Dem Parties.

    Naturally working class British people look at them and do not see anyone with their interests at heart. Some of them probably have an older sort of Labour member they are happy to vote for. Some posh electorates probably still vote for some braying ass married to the daughter of a Duke. But the leaderships have few friends outside Primrose Hill I would guess.

    UKIP is clearly not a Lib-Dem party. I do not see why anyone would be surprised by this.

    And BiS, UKIP is really libertarian? Really? They look more like Social Conservatives to me.

  3. My problem with UKIP Tim is I simply disagree with your prediction. I am a Conservative. No, I don’t have any problem with UKIP and its ideals; I share your belief in liberty. No, I don’t think UKIP members are all loonies or closet racists and yes, I do think David Cameron is a supercillious spoilt brat – Damian Thompson would agree I believe. However, the maths are simple here: your support at a general election will come at the expense of the Conservatives. The only thing you could really achieve is putting Labour into power. Given the current collectivist, fascist, witch-hunting nature of Labour, personified by Richie, that is a terrifying thought. So, hold your noses and set about reaching an accommodation with the Conservatives.

  4. its like the research that makes Lefties lose their rag really badly – far from BNP voters being disillusioned old Tories, thus proving that any who is even mildly right-of-centre is an Evil Racist, BNP voters are predominantly young men who either have never voted or voted Labour before.

    The only place I’ve ever been unfortunate enough to see proper out on the street racism was in the kind of rock-solid Labour-voting pit village that would return a sack of grain if it sported a red rosette; the poor Nigerian sod who was sharing my lodgings got all sorts of abuse from the kind of honest, salt of the earth working class types that the Owens and Pollys of this world rave about so much.

  5. @SMFS
    “And BiS, UKIP is really libertarian? Really? They look more like Social Conservatives to me.”

    Thanks for illustrating exactly the point I was making!

    What does it matter what UKIP look like? The message is more libertarian than the other parties. It strikes a chord with voters. Battles are about capturing ground & moving on to the next objective. They don’t begin with victory parades.

  6. @ So Much For Subtlety #3

    It’s not just the political sphere – a common bleat from British intellectuals is along the lines of “Why oh why don’t we get the sort of respect from the man in the street that our counterparts in France do?”

    The answer is that French intellectuals espouse the working classes and their interests and activities; in the UK intellectuals sneer at and belittle the working classes with whom they have little to do. Respect is a two-way street.

  7. “So, hold your noses and set about reaching an accommodation with the Conservatives.”
    How about the Tories changing the voting system to a proper version of PR (not alternate vote). Saying vote for us or Labour will get in is a form of extortion.

  8. So Much For Subtlety

    Flatcap Army – “The answer is that French intellectuals espouse the working classes and their interests and activities; in the UK intellectuals sneer at and belittle the working classes with whom they have little to do. Respect is a two-way street.”

    I can’t accept that. No one has contempt for ordinary French people like the French elites do. Part of the reason they defend scum like that poisonous little Franco-Polish dwarf Polanski is that concerns about sexual morality are so parochial and backward – they smell of the countryside. Sophisticated urban people take a more urbane view of such things.

    Traditionally the British intellectual did not have the same degree of contempt for the British worker or farmer. They were snobbish but they would have said something about stout yeoman, Agincourt, Trafalgar, that sort of thing.

    I think the difference is that intellectuals do not hold the reins of power in Britain. While they do in France. Everyone of note went to ENA – and those that did not like Sarkozy (a poisonous little Franco-Hungarian dwarf come to think of it) they loathed. With power comes the ability to use the state to make anyone who laughs at them pay. And patronage.

  9. It needs to change its name. And logo.

    And stop the swivel eyes in its ranks from foghorning off whenever they get airtime.

    Maybe get more than a couple of ideas and back them up with some real numbers, and not some post-cold war rhetoric about diktats and EUSSR. Drop the corruption allegations, they’re at it too.

    Anyone see those pictures of the Ukipper from Croydon bellowing like a tramp at their party conference?

    Women?

    The only way Ukip will win anything at a general election in the Old Labour heartlands is if Labour is not represented by one of “theirs”. It’s about trust. A long standing party member in a constiuency will win against any Ukipper preaching much the same message perceived as right winging Thatch blurb. Certainly if the GE was next month.

    They may do okay at the locals, though. At the ConDem’s expense.

  10. It’s about the values of a quite large section of ex-Labour voters: you get up, you go to work, you earn a crust. If you steal, you get punished. If someone tries to rob you and you’re there, they walk out with bruises.

    What Labour used to be to those people was the party of caring and betterment. You got sick or laid, off, you didn’t starve. If you were poor and your kid was smart, he could go to university. But they live shoulder-to-shoulder with people who live on benefits who are capable of working today, and are disgusted by it. The most savage critics of people who live on benefits that I know are a mate of mine who is an ex-squaddie that grew up on a council estate, and a security guard that lives on a council estate. They make Tebbit look like Toynbee.

  11. The Stigler – of course the working classes hate the benefits classes, they have to live side by side with the irresponsible lot (and deal with loud parties at 3am) and pay punitive taxes for them. It’s why Labour current policy of being the receptacle of Owen Jones whining is going to cost them a lot of votes..

  12. Arnald

    We both posted on Ritchie’s blog: you know, that one about world development goals. You might remember trying to parody Tim, but endng up only repeating his words with quotation marks where the irony should have been and then trying to smear him as a racist.
    You can’t write, because you can’t think, sod off!

  13. So Much For Subtlety – I think I’m distinguishing here between the Enarques who run everything and the fag-smoking intellectuals who hang about on the Left Bank in popular folklore; there always has been a genuine tendency for the philosophical sorts in France to rhapsodise about the peasant lifestyle

  14. Ironman (go big boy!)

    Blimey, I’ve only posted once there in months, and there was no irony involved. Merely paraphrasing. I didn’t make Worstall out to be racist, I laughed at the claim that people that don’t think like him are labelled racist by him. If that was the post you were referring to.

    I would learn to read first, mon vieux.

    Quickly written comments are not the place for proper technique. Yep, I can write, but I choose not to review. I’m not the only one.

    And how exactly is relevant to this thread anyway?

  15. Arnald

    Let’s just leave it for anyone who want to waste their life to go and read your comment; it’s all there.

  16. Ironman’s analysis, applied by millions, is why we’re in such a fucking mess. For a start, the reason that “Conservatives” once in power can enact an authoritarian social democratic programme indistinguishable in tone from New Labour is the knowledge that lots of Ironmans will carry on voting for them regardless, just to keep The Labours out.

    No single vote will win or lose an election; so using it to vote for the winners is a waste of it, literally. If you use it to vote for a party more aligned with what you actually want (which may be UKIP) then every vote they get enhances their credibility, giving them a greater chance of eventually reaching an election winning position.

    Look, if we carry on getting Labour and Conservative governments, we are fucked. At least if you are opposed to authoritarian social democracy based on post marxist ideology. It makes little odds if one party takes two or three years longer to get to a particular point than the other (even if that is true). We are still going to end up in the same place, and still be utterly fucked. It’s that simple.

  17. ” … between Tories and whatever the Notting Hill set are.
    How about, “IT-challenged Annabels between Uni and Matrimony”?

  18. “…anyone who want to waste…”

    Is that irony?

    I know what I wrote and how, you can’t read. Let us leave it at that.

  19. True fact: much UKIP support comes from working-class voters.

    Wrong conclusion to draw from this: UKIP can win Labour seats in the North.

    The working-class voters who’re opting for UKIP are the predominantly southern and midlands working-class-but-anti-socialist voters who opted for Mrs T, tolerated New Labour for the first term or so when Blair was pitching himself as her successor, and whose subsequent disengagement from everyone cost Cameron his chance of a majority last time round.

    Flatcap Army: the reason why what you say annoys lefties is most likely because it’s, erm, not true. BNP voters are underrepresented among 18-34s and overrepresented among 35-54s. They’re likely to have had Labour-supporting parents, but never to have supported Labour themselves.

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