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‘N’ Mary Honeyball c’n fuck off ‘n’ all

“It is clear that there is growing support of framework where the purchasers of sex are criminalised, rather than the people selling sex, not just in Scandinavia, but in France, Northern Ireland and others – while there is a growing disillusionment in places where it has been legalised, such as Germany and Holland,” said the Labour MEP. “We need an EU-wide model, otherwise we risk encouraging sex tourism, which I think no government would want to see. If it is not taken seriously then I think we could find Britain becomes a real target.”

No, there is not growing support for such a framework. You’re lying.

Europe is shifting its approach on prostitution because of the transformation in the industry in recent years, with many more prostitutes now trafficking victims from overseas. A recent European parliamentary report estimated there were about 880,000 people living in slave-like conditions in Europe, of whom 270,000 were victims of sexual exploitation.

There are activists though, wildly lying their way through the evidence.

There simply isn’t any evidence that “sex slavery” is anything other than an appalling and vile and very rare indeed crime.

And we seem to have a sensible policeman as well:

Assistant Chief Constable Chris Armitt, the national police lead on prostitution in England and Wales, who takes a pragmatic approach to prostitution in Liverpool, recording any violence against prostitutes as hate crimes, said the introduction of the Nordic model would be hard to police. “I personally think it would be very unhelpful. Instead of street prostitutes operating in quiet areas of the city they might have to operate in dark, unsafe areas,” he said. “Also, it might be enforceable at a street level but as far as escorts are concerned it would be virtually unenforceable. If there is sex happening between consenting adults, I am not sure why the police would want to get involved.”

So, can anyone point me to a copy of that EU parliament report? I’d love to see how they’ve cocked up (cooked up) those numbers.

19 thoughts on “‘N’ Mary Honeyball c’n fuck off ‘n’ all”

  1. Thanks to my fine hosts here a “EU-wide model” has about as much chance of success as a honeyball on a hot asado.
    Even the domestic attempt to get the ads out of the newspaper classifieds foundered.

  2. It’s interesting how elite anti-citizenry policies tie together. Open borders causes a flood of foreign labour at lower wages and conditions, forcing out local labour. The elite can then use that as an excuse to introduce further laws. Niiiice.

  3. A bit sad to see that someone is taking a pragmatic approach because he counts violence against prostitutes as “hate crimes”, rather than just “a” crime.

  4. The femmi-commisars are now the leading edge of tyranny in this country.

    1-The Yewtree caper–a carefully calculated national hysteria designed to create a situation where any allegation against any man–no matter how ridiculous or ancient–will see the bluebottles racing into action like Adam West getting a call on the Batphone. The ultimate aim is to ensure that any copper who wants to rise to a position of power (a sure indication that s/he shouldn’t be allowed to do so) knows that they will have to kiss the arse of socialism twice over–not just the anti-racists (ie anti-white) crew but s/he will also have to lave the backside of the femmi-commisars (by expressing the appropriate hatred toward hetero-sexual men).

    2-The trafficking bollocks–being used by that fat-cow Smith clone May to promote all new oppression for the people of this country on the grounds of “saving” non-existent sex slaves by having an ID card in all but name.

    3-Mr “I’ll laugh at your funeral” Camoron and his attack on the internet on the grounds of those awful paedos –built up into a non-existent mega threat (yes there are real paedos and so few of them as to be a very small risk to kids) over many years for exactly the purpose they are being used for.

  5. Hi Tim

    It appears to be an estimate by the ILO.—europe/—ro-geneva/—ilo-brussels/documents/genericdocument/wcms_184975.pdf

    I’m guessing that this was picked up by a European Parliament body.

    Here is the methodology:

    Note that this compares to the actual number of trafficking victims found in the EU in 2010 of 9,528 identified and presumed victims.

    Note that this would mean that we are identifying just over 1% of forced labourers in Europe in any one year. There is also the oddity that in the EU report 60%ish of their forced labourers are sex workers, in the ILO report it is 30%.

    I have serious doubts about some of the ILO methodology. On page 38 they calculate the average duration of forced labour (this is then used to come up with a stock of forced labour estimate). In their data this is set to be 29.4 months. Not really looked through it carefully, but it looks a bit iffy.

  6. It’s odd actually since the methodology assumes that we actually detect 3.6% of all incidents. If we used that number, rather than the 1.08% – we end up with 264,000 trafficked people in the EU.

    If we do a back of the envelope calculation, 880,000 forced labourers in the EU pro rata by population would mean that the UK has about 109,000 forced labourers, of whom 33,000 are sex workers.

    Note that the ILO report indicates that much of the problem can be found in Eastern Europe, so the pro rata may be incorrect. But, even if the UK has say a third of these numbers, we end up with some fairly absurd numbers – 10,000 trafficked sex workers? (This consequently also means really absurdly high estimates in Eastern Europe). This compares to 80,000 estimated sex workers in total and 20,000 migrant ones.

    Here is a SOCA piece suggesting total numbers of suspected and actual trafficked persons found in 2012 is around 2,000 of whom 800 are sex workers.

  7. There was a women walked into police station in Finchely (north london) said she’d been held as a sex slave prostitute. She went to the cops first time he let her out. He got 18 years IIRC.

    Was about 6 years ago. Does anyone have a link to that case.

    I keep a look out for this sort of thing, its one of very few cases of genuine kidnap and multiple rape that I have found.

    There was another one (in Scotland IIRC) , black migrant workers, women undoubtedly held in sex slavery.

    One might suppose that victims would be jumping out of brothel windows into passing policemens’ arms not infrequently, seems not to happen much.

  8. “A multi month attempt to go after trafficked sex workers raids 1,300 establishments and finds a couple of hundred of trafficked women.”

    Those are the sort of figures to be very careful about.
    Case in point. There was a West End agency, few years back, employed a load of Thai girls. Got turned over by the police. Big trafficked women story for the papers. Girls forced into prostitution. All the usual.
    Same girls were all working for another agency the next week.
    So what happened to the trafficked girls?
    Reality intrudes.
    These are top of the range, Bangkok hookers. (Knew a few of them because apartments require odds & sods doing & Bayswater was one of our patches. Be hard not to) But Bangkok hookers don’t give high class hooking as their reason for entering the UK to immigration. It would not be a plus point. So they’re language students or au pairs or whatever. So when plod hammers on the door, they all become poor innocent girls lured into a shameful life of vice boo, hoo, hoo. And these are girls spend their days lying (whilst they’re lying) for a living. For the game is built on the two great lies. She lies she fancies you. Well enough that you lie to yourself you believe her. At being convincing they leave politicians in their dust. Hence when plod & the CPS got round to actually charging anyone they found a distinct lack of witnesses or any evidence because the poor trafficked innocents had vanished like a puff of smoke.

    Any trawl of establishments will come up with women who say they’ve been trafficked. For about as long as they’re in the interview room..

  9. I’ve listened to the piece Ken linked and it is appalling. Note this from the Home Office Minister:

    The experience of being prostituted is akin to the experience of trafficking because of the lack of control that most prostituted women have over their lives. It’s quite true that many of the women in prostitution aren’t, for example, trafficked in the rather graphic sense that might be described in the red-top newspapers.

    We’ve already seen the declaration that trafficked = slave, even though most trafficked persons, worldwide, are economic migrants. We are now seeing prostitute = trafficked = slave. It is an appalling abuse of not just English but, apparently, justice.

  10. BiS

    Yes, my point is that even if you treat the supposed “trafficked victims” found in this sweep as all being real, it suggests that either:

    1) The police are useless/corrupt and cannot find the thousands of trafficked women
    2) The number is bollox.

    If we extrapolate using Tim Hartford’s numbers (1300 establishments, 200ish victims, 4 hookers per establishment, 5%) and the extrapolate to the overall population of sex workers of 80,000, this comes to 4,000 trafficked women.

    Note that the police specifically targeted trafficking and found 5%ish, so the real number could be lower (although the 80,000 number is iffy as well – may be higher or lower). Then we have to adjust for BiS’s point.

  11. The ILO has changed its tune quite a lot –—ed_norm/—declaration/documents/publication/wcms_081913.pdf

    A big reason for this is that their duration estimate appears to have been roughly tripled between 2005 and 2012. (Note that this isn’t clear since the documents are vague on the precise method). But the duration used in 2012 is 29 months, this compares to a study suggesting 8 months for trafficked victims in Europe ( p.21) and the ILO’s own estimate of 12-18 months for commercial sexual exploitation.

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