Ritchie on Chinese debt

Too good to miss this one:

There are now three credit cards for every Chinese mainlander.

I believe in the need for credit, but I also believe in the control of credit. This looks out of control.

There’s a lot of potential for this to end in tears.

Comment one:

Not sure you are reading that right.

I see number of credit cards to be about 200 m units, so 1 in 6 mainlanders has a cc.

For debit cards then yes it’s 3 for 1

Ritchie’s response:

I am quoting the FT

The FT:

Ten times more of them are debit cards than credit cards (3.8bn compared with 391m), but credit card issuance also rose by 19 per cent in 2013, and Euromonitor predicts credit card usage will grow faster than that of other cards over the next five years.

Wondrous, no?

We all make errors of course but the refusal to even check when one is drawn to attention is what so impresses.

27 thoughts on “Ritchie on Chinese debt”

  1. I’m sure a retired accountant in Norfolk will know the optimum number of credit cards per Chinese citizen.

    Or rather, I’m sure a retired accountant in Norfolk has deluded himself that he would know the optimum number of credit cards per Chinese citizen.

  2. Commenter one will disappear into the memory hole and the post will either vanish or be stealth edited. Surely even a cockend like him wouldn’t leave it there and doggedly defend it?

  3. oh dear… where to start….

    The majority of Chinese ‘credit’ cards have to be preloaded with money, perhaps that is from where the confusion with debit cards comes?? I just got an actual Chinese business credit card. Credit limit? 1500 quid… great, that’s a week in a decent hotel plus dinners and drinks.

    Richie is being the little Englander, I’m sure he hates, who thinks things work the same here as in the UK.

  4. John>

    You’re far too kind. Ritchie’s well aware that he’s lying, but to him it’s not wrong to lie in order to try and gain political power. He thinks he should be in charge of everything; he believes in old-fashioned Nazism as the best form of government, with himself as the Nazi dictator. The Chinese lie here is ‘evidence’ both of the need for Fascist control, and the need to be racist towards the little yellow men who don’t know what’s best for themselves.

  5. RM just keeps digging. He has finally realised his mistake, but he swiftly moved to redefine the language. At 12:39 he wrote:

    “But debit cards are not neutral; they frequently imply credit shopping. Why do you need three each otherwise?”

    In Ritchie-speak, debit cards ARE credit cards. The man’s self-delusion knows no limits.

  6. But debit cards are not neutral; they frequently imply credit shopping. Why do you need three each otherwise

    That’s a bit tortured. Credit cards haven’t the same penetration as they have in the UK and the US in, say, Germany or France. There it’s usual to have a bank overdraft facility (often a multiple of your monthly pay and granted automatically) which results in cheaper borrowing.

    In that sense using a debit card is drawing on a pre-arranged credit line if your account is in overdraft but within limits.

    Or, is he meaning store cards? Or does he mean shopping around for credit? Or does he not know what he means?

  7. Three debit cards merely means three bank accounts. So, well, meh.

    Dunno about China but here they arrive automagically. Even if all you ever do with the account is move money in and out through the inter-tubes.

    I think I had as many as five at one point.

  8. Credit cards haven’t the same penetration as they have in the UK and the US in, say, Germany or France.

    The French still use f*cking cheques, FFS!! I opened an account a few weeks ago and was given a cheque book…I’ve not written a cheque since I was a student, AFAIK.

  9. I see this as proof that Richie is an idiot who believes what he writes. If he had an IQ in triple digits he’d have spotted his mistake and deleted the post/blocked the commentators.

  10. Richard Murphy – there is a picture of him in all psychiatry text books at the start of the Chapters on Paranoid Self-Delusion and Cognitive Dissonance.

  11. Everything you want to know about Richie is captured in that one post. If you ever need to convince someone of his stupidity and willingness to mislead then just send a link to it.

  12. Ritchie demonstrates his qualifications for a job as deputy leader in the shadow cabinet.

    Manipulates facts to suit his intended conclusions. Blusters. Evades questions. Refuses to admit mistakes. Attacks and abuses his rightful critics. Fails to apologise. Is patently thick.

    In short, as required, he acts like a complete cvnt.

    I should however make it clear I have no evidence he was ever connected with kiddy-fiddlers.

  13. “But debit cards are not neutral; they frequently imply credit shopping. Why do you need three each otherwise?”

    You buy stuff with credit cards
    You buy stuff with debit cards
    Therefore debit cards are credit cards

  14. Bloke in Costa Rica

    Being caught in an obvious falsehood and then prevaricating about it is something that we try to eradicate in children. When it manifests itself in adulthood it’s a very worrying sign. It’s an indicator of psychopathy (and I’m not just making that up; I have it on good authority from a psychologist who specialises in the treatment of addictive behaviours, which are often characterised by dissimulation in the face of evidence and can tend towards the psychopathic.) I think he’s not just a cretin but mentally ill.

  15. The man’s a total arse. It’s great however that he lacks the wherewithal to realise he is proving that fact to such an extent that even his usual acolytes can’t fail to see it.

  16. You’ve got to give him credit (or debit, maybe!) for letting that much negative comment through his “anti-troll” wall.
    Even Tim has been allowed in!

  17. @Tim Newman
    “The French still use f*cking cheques, FFS!!”

    And the French banks are still putting the amounts on the statements in FFrancs as well as Euros.

    I wonder what they know that we don’t?

  18. Bloody hell! I think the man over at Tax Research needs to invest in a JCB. If he’s going to keep digging holes for himself, like that, a shovel’s not man enough for the task.

  19. See this comment of his:

    “But I could be wrong. It’s happened

    Sometimes”

    Oh, the glory that is the omnipotent R Murphy Esq

  20. I think the man is a massive narcissist. That huge sense of self importance and his inability to deal with even the slighest criticism. The way anyone pointing out an error is not only wrong but too stupid to understand Richie’s genius and how he loves having his ego stroked by sycophants. Imagine how hard it must be for his family?

  21. So Much For Subtlety

    If Ritchie was not so up himself, he might have noticed the real story in China is informal credit. The formal sector is so strongly regulated (which is to say wrapped by by all those with connections to the Party, especially the myriad State-owned enterprises that may or may not be bust) that the real economy relies heavily on informal credit. Outside the normal banking system and more or less unregulated.

    Worse, if you want a bank loan you often have to get a guarantee from someone. Often someone with a shady past and an unpleasant way of collecting debts. But also often other companies in the same sector. Strange as it seems, Chinese companies often only do business with each other if they guarantee each other’s loans. This means that if one company goes over, dozens can follow.

    In recent years there have been signs that this informal and unregulated lending sector is tottering. But of course, Ritchie doesn’t know a damn thing about it because he doesn’t know a damn thing about anything. After all he would have to take his head out of his rectum to learn. He could start by thinking about the social costs of regulating an industry so much that you hand it over to people like Peter Rachman.

  22. I’ve been using debit cards for over 2 decades, have had up to 4 at a time. Have never implied credit shopping with them, not once.
    Have had credit cards in the past, those have credit shopping done with them – not confused in any way with debit cards.

  23. I wonder what his fans (Arnauld, Carole Wilcox, Howard Reed, etc) think when they read comment threads like that. Do they manage to read it some other way? How do they resolve the cognitive dissonance?

  24. Every country has a banking system and an associated payments system. Pretty much everyone has a system of plastic cards for paying. Many of these systems of plastic cards are tied together into international networks so that cards from one country can be used in ATMs and shops in other countries.

    Every system has its own foibles, every country’s banks have their own rules and their own attitudes to credit, and every country’s citizens have particular attitudes to and ways of dealing with credit. As several other people have said, the French and the Germans don’t use credit cards that offer ongoing rolling credit the way the British do. I believe the French do however use cards that offer one month of rolling credit and have to be paid off in full at the end of the month quite a lot. Are these credit or debit cards? Depends on your point of view.

    Trying to understand what credit card ownership and other banking habits mean for risk is very difficult without knowing the details of the banking system very precisely. Trying to conclude anything from the fact that there are so many hundred million cards in China that do something and have a Visa or Mastercard symbol on them is silly.

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