Ms. Bindel worries

I would go even further and contend that this pernicious culture of celebrity lesbian chic has made it more difficult for lesbianism to be accepted in society.

Yeah, I can see that. Elton John kissing David Furnish makes it more difficult for homosexuality to be accepted in society, Kate kissing Wills makes it more difficult for royalty to be accepted in society, David C walking out with Samantha C makes monogamous heterosexuality much more difficult for society to accept.

Good grief, the argument with pornography is that monkey see, monkey do. Every time someone sees an image of Ron Jeremy buggering some “actress” then they’ll demand anal on the first date for evermore. So people seeing a couple of birds kissing will obviously therefore reject lesbianism in all its forms.

Oh well, did you know that the Daily Mail is the best paying outlet for freelance writing in the country? £ a word usually, £2 if it’s a strap (ie, the piece is mentioned on the front page) and more if it’s a splash?

1,016 words. A good day’s work there.

26 thoughts on “Ms. Bindel worries”

  1. So Much for Subtlety

    So people seeing a couple of birds kissing will obviously therefore reject lesbianism in all its forms.

    Her argument is openly that men will enjoy it and therefore it is bad. I mean she would need years of therapy to be batsh!t insane.

  2. Funny thing is, Bindel isn’t gay either. Like Dworkin, Sheila Jeffries, etc, she chose to be a lesbian- defined by the Movement not as a woman who likes women, but as a woman who does not fuck men- as a political statement. So I don’t know why she’s lecturing about being gay.

    That’s the funny thing. Most of the lesbian feminists are actually just deeply messed up heterosexuals.

  3. “I’ve never understood the attraction of lesbians – even fit ones. Does nothing for me.”

    In the normal case of the half-sucked-mango-faced Dr Martens wearer I would agree. There are however a very fit few that I pine for.

  4. So Much For Subtlety

    Interested – “I’ve never understood the attraction of lesbians – even fit ones. Does nothing for me.”

    Lesbians in reality are a problem. No one in their right mind could desire one. I assume few lesbians do either – the most popular lesbian on OKCupid is actually quite fit. So it suggests that most lesbians like thin and pretty just like everything else. But that like most other women they will take what they can get and pretend to themselves that they are happy.

    Theoretical lesbians, on the other hand, are appealing. And I have no idea why. But they make up a good part of the porn beloved by men all over the planet. I cannot speak for the Middle East, which leads the world in searching for terms like “goat sex” but in the rest of Asia lesbian porn is popular.

    What I do not understand is the attraction for La Bindel by the Tory press. She used to write for the Guardian. But I assume slagging off Trannies will get you fired there. Don’t know – does she still write for them? I only see her now in the Telegraph, the Spectator and now the Daily Mail.

    Someone should warn them that the enemy of your enemy’s live-in Tranny lover is not your friend.

  5. it suggests that most lesbians like thin and pretty just like everything else.

    I’ve never really plucked up the courage to ask, but I should have thought the point of being a lesbian is that one is sexually attracted to other women. I’ve therefore never really understood the whole “lesbians going out of their way to look like men” thing.

    Theoretical lesbians, on the other hand, are appealing. And I have no idea why. ,/i>

    Think Ian and I went ito this on another thread once; conclusions

    a) in women any kind of sexual activity is seen as a turn on, b) lesbianism in women in fantasy is seen as an admission of being on the bisexuality spectrum rather than rejection of men, which is doubly exciting: “aren’t they liberated”

    I would add

    c) seen as a challenge – the whole ‘turning’ thing, cf Ian Fleming’s Pussy Galore (not so much the film version) eg “just hasn’t found enough of a man”
    d) girl + girl = anima squared in cod-Jungian terms.

  6. d) practicality of fantasy. You can watch some sexual activity without a big hairy arsed bloke in the way ruining it[1]. The eventual conclusion of this, in non real (i.e. cartoon) porn is the dickgirl, who has all the equipment to do the job properly, while still being a hot chick. Dickgirls, thus, are not transexual males, but magic females with penises (often, a hugely enlarged clitoris).

    [1] Though this still leaves the mystery of the stereotype of the Gurning Man just before the cumshot, now it seems a somewhat dying trope, but ubiquitous in porn for a long time.

  7. So Much For Subtlety

    sam – “I’ve never really plucked up the courage to ask, but I should have thought the point of being a lesbian is that one is sexually attracted to other women. I’ve therefore never really understood the whole “lesbians going out of their way to look like men” thing.”

    Well some lesbians, like La Bindel, go down that “we’re above sexual desire” road. They claim they reject the shallow lookist approach of men. But if they did like women, it does not follow that they would like the same women for the same reasons that men do.

    But it turns out they do. I would bang the most popular lesbian before the most popular heterosexual woman:

    http://nymag.com/thecut/2014/02/okcupid-most-desired-people-in-new-york.html

    “Think Ian and I went ito this on another thread once; conclusions”

    There is always the reason that you could be pretty damn sure that your children were yours. It is not as if she would be banging the milkman on the side. Either of them actually.

  8. But if they did like women, it does not follow that they would like the same women for the same reasons that men do.

    Gay men tend to find the same physical characteristics in men attractive as women do. Lesbians ought to be attracted to the same physical characteristics in women as men are. This is one reason for suspecting that the professional lesbians like Bindel aren’t really lesbians at all, but repressed heterosexuals.

    The claim to be not drawn to shallow physical nature is really because in looking for partners, they’re looking for a friend rather than a lover. Studies of lesbian feminists’ sexual activity show it to be virtually absent.

  9. So Much For Subtlety

    Ian B – “Gay men tend to find the same physical characteristics in men attractive as women do. Lesbians ought to be attracted to the same physical characteristics in women as men are.”

    Assuming that there is some underlying biological flaw that means Gay men get the female desire module turned on instead of the male one. I am not entirely convinced by this.

    There is also a massive difference between what lesbians say and do with what they clearly want – a femine-ish girl.

    “This is one reason for suspecting that the professional lesbians like Bindel aren’t really lesbians at all, but repressed heterosexuals.”

    Repressed isn’t the right word. My experience of lesbians are that they are either bitter no man has ever, and I mean ever, wanted them, or they were treated so badly that they cannot bear the idea of another man touching them.

    “The claim to be not drawn to shallow physical nature is really because in looking for partners, they’re looking for a friend rather than a lover. Studies of lesbian feminists’ sexual activity show it to be virtually absent.”

    Those relationships end up that way but they don’t start that way. Nor do I think it is what they want. I bet if you asked them what their ideal level of sex would be, it wouldn’t be zero.

  10. Who says there’s a female (or gender) desire module? The simplest hypothesis is that humans simply imprint on the distinguishing characteristics of their target gender, and that is what they then find attractive. That’s why it is partially culturally determined; whatever the culture tends to zoom in on as particularly distinguishing. Ass in Africa, tits in Europe. Tiny feet in China. What matters is features that distinguish the correct gender. So there’s no “module” specifying tits or ass. If you grew up in an unusual mutant population without tits, you’d neither expect them nor find them attractive.

  11. @ Sam

    “I’ve never really plucked up the courage to ask, but I should have thought the point of being a lesbian is that one is sexually attracted to other women. I’ve therefore never really understood the whole “lesbians going out of their way to look like men” thing.”

    Firstly, that’s less of a thing than you probably think. Most of the lesbians I’ve do not look any different to anyone else. That’s not to say that the boyish look (and it’s more often that than ‘manish’) isn’t popular. Those for whom their sexuality is something they wish to make a statement out of seem more inclined to model their look along the stereotypical lines (but no differently to the way gay men, and an awful lot of straight people, adopt a look which makes a statement about who they are, or would like to be, fucking) but lesbians who don’t especially feel like advertising the fact that they are lesbians look just the same as the straight girls. Your sample misses them out, because you don’t know they’re gay.

    Secondly, I give you Justin Bieber. He looks like a teenage lesibian and/or teenage lesbians look like Justin Bieber… either way, girls.. particularly younger girls.. are attracted to feminine-looking men (see, also, the young Di-Caprio, the young Beckham, Harry Styles etc). It seems entirely logical that a lesibian would find that look appealing.. both to possess and to persue.

  12. You can watch some sexual activity without a big hairy arsed bloke in the way ruining it[1]

    That’s so ’70s. These days the men are as waxed as the women.

  13. There’s some weird stuff around pr0n, single sex behaviour & fantasies.
    Men do enjoy watching two women fucking & fantasize about being the man in the scene.
    (And having the opportunity to show how inadequate they would prove for the task)
    Women do fantasize about being with two men.
    (No contents of these brackets required)
    Women generally don’t enjoy two men fucking. Or even thinking about.
    They often enjoy watching two men knock shit out of each other.
    (Providing it doesn’t include.too much blood or the actual shit & vomit usually resulting- -Yuck. Gross)
    Folks is … folks..

  14. pernicious culture of celebrity lesbian chic

    Ironically, this includes writing about it.

  15. I’ve been saying for ages now that The Daily Mail is in many ways a fairly left-wing paper, this is just further evidence.

  16. Dennis the Peasant

    “Her argument is openly that men will enjoy it and therefore it is bad. I mean she would need years of therapy to be batsh!t insane.”

    Therapy? Perhaps.

    But more likely (at least in the USA) an advanced degree in Gender Studies from an Ivy League school.

  17. “I’ve been saying for ages now that The Daily Mail is in many ways a fairly left-wing paper, this is just further evidence.”

    Daily Mail is a popular paper reflecting popular opinions.* Which about shows you how far out of popular culture left/right definitions are. DM’s soft left on some things, Authoritarian on others. Sometimes facing both ways on the same subject on consecutive pages.
    Much the same as folks, basically.

    *Yeah. Right. And no doubt they feel the same about you.

  18. Sure, but the popular idea that the Mail is terribly right-wing is just not right (neither, of course, is the Telegraph).

  19. If you’re looking for a right wing paper, can really reccommend the Guardian. It’s got everything except calls to invade Poland & that’ll probably be in the Media Supplement, next week.

  20. So Much for Subtlety

    Dennis the Peasant – “Therapy? Perhaps. But more likely (at least in the USA) an advanced degree in Gender Studies from an Ivy League school.”

    Not sure that an advanced degree in Gender Studies is likely to pull someone closer to the mainstream. Which was my point about La Bindel. With years of therapy, she might be merely batsh!t crazy.

    In passing, Julian Assange may be in a little trouble should he make it to Sweden:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2575818/Nova-Scotia-man-guilty-sexual-assault-poking-holes-condom-impregnate-girlfriend-never-leave-him.html

    I look forward to Ms Bindel agreeing that women who do the same thing ought to be jailed as well.

  21. So Much for Subtlety

    bloke in spain – “If you’re looking for a right wing paper, can really reccommend the Guardian. It’s got everything except calls to invade Poland & that’ll probably be in the Media Supplement, next week.”

    The way Putin is going that may not be a joke either.

  22. With Runcie on this one: Bindel sees herself as the media celebrity lesbian .Oh dear. She actually manages only four sentences this time before “outing” herself , (as if we did n’t know by now).

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