Timmy elsewhereMay 14, 2014 Tim WorstallTimmy Elsewhere21 CommentsAt the ASI. Anyone who thinks that Beppe Grillo and Russell Brand are arguing for the same type of revolution is deluded. previousThere always was something a little odd about Laurie LeenextIsn’t this fascinating? 21 thoughts on “Timmy elsewhere” Steve May 14, 2014 at 8:43 am David Harvie is a Senior Lecturer in Finance and Political Economy at the University of Leicester. Keir Milburn is a Lecturer in Political Economy and Organisation at the University of Leicester. David and Keir are both cis white males who need to check their privilege. Their 2011 horror story was better: The zombie of neoliberalism can be beaten – through mass direct action Phone hacking and police corruption represent neoliberalism’s undead status, even as it marches on. Yet change is possible The only way out of the present impasse is to spark mass political action such as that glimpsed in Greece, Spain and the Maghreb, as well as the student movement in the UK. Any prospect of this reaching the level of social force needed to finish off neoliberalism is predicated on the hope that the embrace of tabloid and celebrity culture is a symptom of the powerless position neoliberalism places us in, and not its cause. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/aug/04/neoliberalism-zombie-action-phone-hacking The lecturers at Scumbag Polytechnic have spoken! To the barricades! Rob May 14, 2014 at 10:10 am Phone hacking and police corruption are caused by free trade and economic liberalism? Who knew? East Germany and the rest of the Soviet bloc must have been as neoliberal as feck, yet no one knew. Stuck-Record May 14, 2014 at 10:26 am Priceless from the Guardian this morning. “There is a continuing consensus on all sides that the role of the state must be minimal.” http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/13/police-press-writers-blocked-editorial So much doublethink in one brain. How do they do it? They pressed for Levesdon and Govt press control and, day after day, call for state intervention/control of business and social life at every level. It is the very breath of that newspaper. Steve May 14, 2014 at 11:10 am Rob – yarp. Neoliberalism – is there anything it can’t do? I noticed a spider in the shower today. Bloody neoliberal arachnids! Rob May 14, 2014 at 11:54 am The Left discovers that political thought is now policed; are amazed. Emil May 14, 2014 at 11:54 am Describing Grillo as neoliberal is more than a little strange considering: – the very strong resistance from his “movement” against various privatisations – proposed stringent energy laws (to reduce climate change impact) – free access to the Internet (whatever that means) – expropriation of the telecoms network – not allowing stock options or leveraged buy-outs – salary caps – price controls for telecoms, internet access, energy, transports – disincentivising bottled water – favouring local production – not allowing any further car parks to be built – nudging politics for health (healthy food, non-smoking, excercise) I could hardly think of anything further removed from the principles of the ASI and mr. Worstall. Their programme is available here (in Italian): https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/materiali-bg/Programma-Movimento-5-Stelle.pdf for those interested Steve May 14, 2014 at 11:57 am one editor recently dismissed me from a publication on the grounds that I am a “hyperneoliberal” You made them sad Pandas, Tim. Did they not read any of your stuff before hiring you? Steve May 14, 2014 at 11:59 am Emil – I thought it was The Jews Mr Grillo was after. Rob May 14, 2014 at 12:00 pm “Emil – I thought it was The Jews Mr Grillo was after.” See “disincentivising bottled water”. Clearly code. Steve May 14, 2014 at 12:06 pm Rob – Damn Jews and their Evian and big noses, sucking up all our air! I like David Icke’s code about shapeshifting lizard starbeast Rothschildren better. But then, I was a huge fan of “V”. Emil May 14, 2014 at 12:10 pm Steve / Rob: I couldn’t find any explicit anti-Jew propaganda in his official programme (There are lots of other goodies similar to those highlighted above though. Really, they are complete loons.) Surreptitious Evil May 14, 2014 at 12:17 pm Emil, You are missing the point, probably completely. There are those sorts of revolutionaries who argue from a political position – Brand is one of these. In his case, some form of Trot or other Marxoid. There are those sorts of revolutionaries who argue from a desired outcome. Many of those are willing then to take what they consider good ideas from those from differing political stances or affiliations. Both Grillo and the LHTD fall in to this wider group but differ, quite extremely, on the latter differentiator. Surreptitious Evil May 14, 2014 at 12:20 pm Sorry, missed something out – serves me right for commenting while I am having lunch. For the first sort – arguing from a political position or platform – ideas from outside of the movement are heresy. Anybody who has or entertains them is a traitor to the movement and, well, depending on the power of the platform can be anything from ostracised to terminated with extreme prejudice and, probably, much prior pain. The Other Bloke in Italy May 14, 2014 at 12:44 pm Emil has a point about where Beppe is coming from. I know that our local Fascista, who regularly grumbles that things were better in Benito’s day, listens when Grillo comes on the box. that said, I cannot resist pointing out that Grillo and Berlusconi are the only serious politicians here who see the Euro, and by extension the EU for the damaging institutions they are. (Matteo Renzi prays daily in the direction of Brussels. Decline continues.) Emil May 14, 2014 at 1:07 pm S.E. I was mainly arguing against the below in which Tim was seeming to say that Mr. Grillo is (atleast) somewhat close to him politically, whereas to me he is just another form of socialist “And anything more than a cursory glance at the movement’s desires and policies show that they wish to move Italian society in a more neoliberal, or even just a more classically liberal, direction. They wish to cull parts of the State, kill off some of those special interests, revive civil liberties and reduce the regulatory capture that plagues Italy.” “Grillo is outside the traditional left/right divide in Italian politics just as we here at the ASI are outside that traditional divide in British. We’re both arguing that classical liberal polity, that set of policies that doesn’t actually have a home in any of the traditional parties.” Put differently, there is very little neoliberal or classic liberal about Mr. Grillo Witchsmeller Pursuivant May 14, 2014 at 9:13 pm Tim – As far as Brand is concerned we seem to have the standard Teenage Trotskyism that most of us grow out of around our 16th birthday and the discovery of the opposite sex. SE – There are those sorts of revolutionaries who argue from a political position – Brand is one of these. In his case, some form of Trot or other Marxoid. I disagree about Brand being any kind of Trotskyite, or actually arguing a political position at all. Whilst his critique might sound Marxoid, it’s not. It’s anger at unfairness and stupidity. He doesn’t want equality (“I’m not better than you. I’m just different to you in a way that’s better.”) but social justice. It’s corporatism he’s railing against, not the free market. That’s not to say he’s not a monstrous, charismatic sociopath. But his prescriptions are spiritual rather than political. It’s a revolution of the heart he’s after. So Much for Subtlety May 14, 2014 at 9:42 pm Steve – “I like David Icke’s code about shapeshifting lizard starbeast Rothschildren better. But then, I was a huge fan of “V”.” I thought Jon Ronson comprehensively proved that when David Icke says shapeshifting lizard starbeasts, he does actually means shapeshifting lizard starbeasts and not Jews? So Much for Subtlety May 15, 2014 at 12:03 am Beppe Grillo clearly is not a liberal. He just proves my point that culture and tradition is inescapable. Grillo ought to be a liberal. His complaints about regulation and capture would lead him to liberalism in the English speaking world. But he is not in the English speaking world. So his politics will take him into the world of random violence against the rich and powerful or into replacing one set of oligarchs with his own mates as a new sets of oligarchs. Italians can do no other. Off topic, it looks like Julie Bindel’s friends are the gift that keeps on giving. Two old age pensioners look like they are about to be railroaded for Satanic Abuse: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2628312/Couple-used-black-magic-terrify-schoolgirl-11-taking-sex-sessions-making-think-satanic-coven.html A husband and wife used black magic to terrify an 11-year-old schoolgirl into taking part in depraved sex sessions, a jury has heard. Their alleged victim blotted out her three-year ordeal for almost four decades before a torrent of suppressed memories resurfaced, a court was told. Yeah, we never learn. Thomas Gibbon May 15, 2014 at 12:24 am With SMFS I’d argue that the Italian polity lacks the vocabulary of liberal thought. And so, although it is true that the telecom and energy suppliers are corrupt ripoff merchants, the only solutions in the national lexicon are price caps/nationalization. Steve May 15, 2014 at 1:25 am So Much for Subtlety – “I thought Jon Ronson comprehensively proved that when David Icke says shapeshifting lizard starbeasts, he does actually means shapeshifting lizard starbeasts and not Jews?” Yes, probably. But it’s more fun to think that the polymorphic reptilian Illuminati blood-drinkers from another dimension he warned us about are disguised as Ed Miliband. DUN DUN DUNNNNNN! So Much for Subtlety May 15, 2014 at 1:52 am Thomas Gibbon – “And so, although it is true that the telecom and energy suppliers are corrupt ripoff merchants, the only solutions in the national lexicon are price caps/nationalization.” You can see why they end up with authoritarianism or even Fascism or Communism. Because the end logic of this argument is that the government has to jail and/or shoot people. Steve – “Yes, probably. But it’s more fun to think that the polymorphic reptilian Illuminati blood-drinkers from another dimension he warned us about are disguised as Ed Miliband. DUN DUN DUNNNNNN!” And Kris Kristofferson. Never understood what he had against Kristofferson. But I am inclined to agree with Ronson that it is a co-incidence that so many of the inter-stellar shapeshifting lizards he identifies happen to be Jewish. Maybe lizards don’t like the taste of pork? Leave a Reply Cancel replyYour email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *Comment Name * Email * Website Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.