I think they have post partum exercises for thisJune 4, 2014 Tim WorstallFeminism15 CommentsI gave birth to an 11lb baby, so a bit more support would have been nice previousTimmy elsewherenextRitchie’s Queen’s Speech 15 thoughts on “I think they have post partum exercises for this” Ian Reid June 4, 2014 at 10:17 am I was speaking to an anaesthetist on Saturday evening, and he said that without medical intervention in 25% of cases the birth is fatal for the mother or baby, or both. With a baby that size she should have had the caesarian straight away, rather than suffering three days of pain before finally having to have it anyway. By not doing so she put herself, her baby at risk, and blocked a bed someone else might have needed. But then she is a Guardian columnist, so rational behaviour is unlikely. dearieme June 4, 2014 at 10:53 am “she is a Guardian columnist”: well then she is entitled, in’t she? Steve June 4, 2014 at 11:32 am I can see where she’s coming from. If this was her first, she probably didn’t get the sort of support you might hope for from maternity unit staff. They seem to be constantly rushing about like blue arsed flies, and if it’s a prolonged labour the advice you get can vary wildly between shifts, from “let’s do a C-section” to “just wait a few more hours while you scream like a banshee”. After my wife spent 30 hours in labour I was suited up in scrubs, ready to go into the OR, before a different doctor appeared and called the caesarian off, shooed the anaesthetist away, and whipped the plunger out instead. It’s the sort of confusion a woman doesn’t need when she’s in terrible pain, shattered, drugged, and having to endure strangers poking at her bleeding lady bits. Bloke in Japan June 4, 2014 at 1:27 pm Don’t forget the fems wailing about “natural childbirth”, “home births” and “masculinisation” of medicine. We would have lost our first child, for sure, if he hadn’t been born in a modern maternity unit. What makes me spit is the “it’s about me” attitude. No, mum, it’s not about you, you made your choices. It’s about the baby. Babies don’t get to choose, they rely totally on the parents making the right choices for them. Squander Two June 4, 2014 at 2:08 pm Poor Ms Foreman. Yet another victim of the Royal College of Midwives’ dogmatic anti-Caesarian religious stance. Typically of the NHS, it’s not about the patient in front of you right now; it’s about statistical targets for all the patients in the country. So the RCM have decided that there are too many Caesarians and that their numbers therefore need to be reduced, and that consideration holds sway no matter how fucking obvious it becomes that the woman in their care right now needs a C-section. It’s not fair at all to blame Ms Foreman’s Guardian-columnist-ness. If she was rationally taking the advice offered by the people she thought were experts, she could have been an NRA-supporting George Bush fan and still made the same mistakes. Because their advice is shit. The stuff you don’t learn till afterwards. Like, for instance, the majority of inductions fail. Inductions basically don’t work: they’re what you do when it’s obvious a C-section is needed but you have to salve the anti-Caesarian brigade who have thoroughly infiltrated your maternity ward. And they hurt. They’re cruel. And Ms Foreman’s baby was due to be big anyway, then was 12 days overdue, and she still wasn’t going into natural labour? In my opinion, not telling her she needed a C-section should be considered malpractice. The difference between a scheduled and an emergency C-section is massive, especially in terms of stress. And, if you need a C-section, chances are you have problems that will be made far worse by high blood pressure, so stress really matters. I get really angry about this stuff. The bastards nearly killed my wife. bloke in france June 4, 2014 at 2:12 pm Luck of the draw, width of the hips, suppleness of the muscles, done it before? Our first born was 9lb, came out Ok with me rationing the gas bottle. Second was well over 10lbs and came out quicker, hadn’t even had a shit on the way out. Given the filthy state of the old UCH London I’m am so grateful an operation wasn’t needed. monoi June 4, 2014 at 5:05 pm @ Squander 2, How in the name of all that is holy can you say that woman had no choice but to follow bad advice? Either she is a completely stupid individual (and her partner, who is not mentioned at all by the way IIRC) for not being able to get different opinions or using something called the internet, or she is an airhead who buys into all this natural birth/no pain killer/no c-section/etc..bollocks. These people should be sent to some god forsaken country where women really have no choice and do it there. As BIJ says, that me me me attitude is really annoying. Frances Coppola June 4, 2014 at 8:46 pm Ian Reid I think your anaesthetist friend was talking his book. Maternal and neonatal mortality is nowhere near 25% in developing countries where pregnant women don’t have the level of medical support that we are accustomed to. It’s more like 10% – although both babies and mothers do die AFTER birth due to infection or malnutrition, which of course raises the reported mortality rate for both. It’s awfully easy for medics who only see difficult cases to assume that what the “natural” mortality rate would be among the women they see applies to women in general. For the record, I am one of those “difficult cases”. If it were not for the fact that I fortunately live fairly close to a well-equipped maternity hospital, neither I nor my children would be alive now. I am one of your friend’s 25%. Frances Coppola June 4, 2014 at 8:51 pm Monoi, Squander is right and you are very, very wrong. A woman giving birth to an 11 and a half pound baby in a developing country would be lucky to survive, as would her baby. Frances Coppola June 4, 2014 at 8:59 pm Reading that article, I would say that the medical profession has a few questions to answer – like why did she labour for 70 hours before being offered a caesarean, and why, since they knew the baby was going to be large, was she not warned beforehand that some form of intervention might be necessary. But it’s also very easy to be wise after the event. When I was expecting my son, the consultant who saw me at 37 weeks told me then that the best outcome might be an elective caesarean at 38 weeks, but he didn’t push for it. With hindsight he should have done: the outcome would have been far better for both me and my son. But clinical decisions are made on the basis of best judgement at the time, and sometimes – with the best will in the world – they are wrong. johnny bonk June 4, 2014 at 9:24 pm My wife went in on a sunday evening for pre-arranged caesarian for no.1 as she’s type 1 diabetic (since 3 years old,that’s the serious type, not type 2). They gave her the hormone that evening, and it knocked her about immediately, every few hours a doctor came and poked about to asses dilation, of which there was little. I stayed with her throughout. She was roughed up quite badly by the hormone from the start, and getting worse, still they continued to come and poke and pronounce “not much dilation yet”. Early Monday afternoon i something more wrong happened, I could see it, she was in too much distress. Still they came and poked and pronounced “not much dilation yet”. By Monday evening she was in a real bad state, still they came and poked and pronounced “not much dilation yet”. I pointed out that she was in too much distress and that it should not be like this, to which they poked and pronounced “not much dilation yet”. She suffered through the Monday night and the hormone did not wear off. The procedure had very obviously gone wrong, and all they did was come and poke and pronounce “not much dilation yet”. I shouted at the doctor at about hour 24 of the ordeal and they told me I would be asked to leave if I shouted again, I got her mum to come so I could calm down. It was so fucking obvious that it had gone wrong. They decided to give her another dose of what had fucked her up. They did not get in the consultant who had overseen the entire pregnancy and was well respected (you go to hospital weekly and see the consultant a lot for a type1 diabetic pregnancy). They gave her a second dose of the hormone that had fucked her up, and it fucked her up even worse, and still they came and poked and pronounced “not much dilation yet”. Though it had clearly gone wrong they did not bring in a bigwig to examine her until Tues morning, they had finally twigged that it had gone wrong. I wondered I was watching them kill her. Anyway, at 8pm on Tuesday the machine that goes “ping” went “ping”. She was in a very bad way. They stopped poking her and pronouncing “not much dilation yet” and moved her onto into the room next to the nurses station. At about 1am on Wednesday the machine that goes “beep” went “beep”, in fact it went crackers, and they moved into action mode, surgeons etc were called and she went into theatre for emergency c-section at 3am, all over in 40 minutes, healthy boy and recovering mother. The procedure was so obviously wrong from the start, and after 18 hours she had suddenly got worse and anyone could tell that, yet they carried on with normal procedure. It was only when the machines she was hooked too made their noises that they really took any notice, yet I could see FROM THE START that it was going badly, and it was clearly very wrong from about the 18th hour. It was about 53 hours long, and cannot really be called labour, she never dilated, it was being fucked up by a very powerful hormone. The ante-natal car had been fantastic, the emergency surgical team superb, but the twits on the maternity ward were just simply not very good. That’s my story on ant-natal and maternity care. john77 June 5, 2014 at 12:19 am While Frances Coppola obviously knows far more about it than I, I do think that it is worth pointing out that there are massive differences between neighbouring hospitals. We were so disgusted at the treatment given when my wife gave birth to our first son,that she opted to have our second child in a different hospital half-an-hour further away. john malpas June 5, 2014 at 1:52 am Maybe it is time to introduce overt bribery to get things going. Squander Two June 5, 2014 at 6:38 pm johnny bonk, Reading your account gives me severe deja vu. They just don’t see the problems. My wife (also type-1 diabetic) was discharged from hospital three times with lungs full of blood clots. No medical text anywhere lists severe shortness of breath as a symptom of having had a Caesarian, yet all the midwives, when faced with a new mother who was obviously very ill and getting worse, firmly believed that first-time mothers are wusses, especially if they’ve had C-sections, and it’s the midwives’ jobs as trained professionals to tell them to stop whining and get over it. Not to, you know, examine them or anything. > I wondered I was watching them kill her. I knew I was. I’ll stop now before I get angry again. Squander Two June 5, 2014 at 6:44 pm monoi, > How in the name of all that is holy can you say that woman had no choice but to follow bad advice? I didn’t in fact say anything of the sort. > Either she is a completely stupid individual … for not being able to get different opinions or using something called the internet Oo, yes, you’re right! If only she’d got hold of lots of different contradictory opinions, then it would have been obvious what was best! How did I not think of that? > or she is an airhead who buys into all this natural birth/no pain killer/no c-section/etc..bollocks. But it’s not bollocks. Plenty of women have normal, easy, natural births, with no painkillers required. That it doesn’t work for everyone in all circumstances doesn’t make it bollocks, nor does it make it a bad aspiration to hold. Leave a Reply Cancel replyYour email address will not be published. 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