Timmy elsewhereJune 15, 2014 Tim WorstallTimmy Elsewhere6 CommentsAt the ASI. Not many men actually want this parental leave then. previousSo here’s a plannextReading through Piketty 6 thoughts on “Timmy elsewhere” So Much for Subtlety June 15, 2014 at 8:05 am More likely their wives do not want them to use it. Men are not paid more. Married men are. The obvious explanation of this is that men are happy to go out and slave their guts out for women who offer them sex every now and then. Single men have better things to do with their time. So it would follow that wives are more likely to want the leisure time while keeping their husband’s nose firmly to the grind stone so they can spend time caring for the tot or playing tennis with their friends while the puke factory is in Day Care or whatever. The alternative would be getting a real job. So Much for Subtlety June 15, 2014 at 8:27 am Perhaps some people don’t like this arrangement, it’s even possible that we shouldn’t like this arrangement but if that’s what free people decide to do with their liberty then who are we to try and change what they’re doing? Did TimW miss the entire feminist movement? They know just who they are. If they did not force people to do what other than what they want, the feminist movement would have got nowhere. “In an interview with Betty Friedan, Beauvoir said: No, we don’t believe that any woman should have this choice. No woman should be authorised to stay at home to bring up her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have that choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one. It is a way of forcing women in a certain direction.” Ian B June 15, 2014 at 10:27 am Tim, a somwhat tangential point, but you use the terms “equity” and “inequity” so that’s worth consideration. They are not synonymous with equality and I think we should in general draw a distinction. Inequality is when people are in a different state. Inequity is when they are treated differently. A state where black people have less than white people is inequality. A state where black people live under different rules to white people (e.g. Jim Crow) either formally or in practise is inequity. The key point here for me is that Progressives seek equality preferentially to equity and liberals seek equity preferentially to equality, and that is right at the root of what we all argue about a lot here and in other places. Frances Coppola June 15, 2014 at 11:50 am Tim, you really can’t argue that men are exercising a free choice not to take paternity leave if their employers and colleagues disapprove of men who take paternity leave. Nor can you argue that women are exercising a free choice to stay at home with children while there is a fundamental assumption in society that childcare is women’s work, underpinned by legal constructs that undermine fathers’ rights, a primary school system that expects mothers (not fathers) to be available at all times, and employers who discriminate against men who take time off to share childcare. In this matter there is no such thing as a “free choice”, except maybe for those with the money to afford full-time high quality childcare. For everyone else, choices are driven by a whole bunch of societal expectations whose pace of change is glacial. Ian B June 15, 2014 at 1:26 pm Frances, the argument you are putting there is that of the Progressives- that nothing is actually a “free choice”. The flaw in it is that it presents an impossible standard which is literally unattainable; since everyone is imbedded in a society which exerts influence, it would by this definition be entirely impossible for anyone to be “free”. What happens in reality is that only certain influences are criticised. It is obvious that if we accept this argument, nobody influenced by, say, feminists, environmentalists, or any other campaign/opinion/peer group can ever make “free” choices either. But ironically, if we examine this with consideration, we realise that to be entirely disconnected would render choice impotent anyway, since no choice would have any effect. What people saying this really mean is, they want others to make the choices they approve of and will arbitrarily declare those choices “free” when they are ones they approve of. Which is just dishonest. So Much for Subtlety June 15, 2014 at 11:45 pm Frances Coppola – “you really can’t argue that men are exercising a free choice not to take paternity leave if their employers and colleagues disapprove of men who take paternity leave.” I am surrounded by people who think voting Tory is wrong and voting UKIP is evil. Are you really saying that I am unable to exercise a free choice to do so in the privacy of the ballot box? Shall we give up on this whole democracy thing then or just award the Conservatives an extra 50 seats or so as a counter to this widespread prejudice? Leave a Reply Cancel replyYour email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *Comment Name * Email * Website Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.