Oh my word this is lovely

OK, so there’s that Ukip boo boo where a tweet went out identifying Westminster Cathedral as a mosque.

Ooops!

But, you know, human beings, mistakes etc.

The Evening Standard reports the story.

Which, apparently, they originally illustrate with a picture of Westminster Abbey.

Ken16 hours ago
The first photo is of Westminster Abbey, not Cathedral…ES editors obviously don’t know the difference. The Cathedral hardly resembles a mosque but its Byzantine inspired architecture is quite Eastern…
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mrmx5er15 hours ago
Ken – How long before the picture is changed and our posts are deleted?
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mrmx5er13 hours ago
Picture has been changed now.

This reigion and buildings stuff sure is hard, isn’t it?

29 thoughts on “Oh my word this is lovely”

  1. So Much for Subtlety

    Well, in fairness, the Cathedral does look like a mosque. Quite why the Catholics should have built something inspired by Venice and Ruskin, I don’t know.

  2. The misbehaviour of Mad Mussulmen nowadays is quite reminiscent of the Roman Catholic Church in its heyday – read up on the Albigensian Crusade if you are in any doubt.

  3. Smfs

    It looks like a neo-Byzantine Christian church, of which many were built in the 19th century, eg the cathedrals in Riga and Sofia. You might also think of Christ Church in the Brixton Road or the Sacre – Coeur in Paris. I am also not sure why you think that Venice is not Catholic.

  4. bloke (not) in spain

    “It looks like a neo-Byzantine Christian church”
    So it has the same architectural roots as a mosque.
    Worth remembering. Islam doesn’t have any architectural roots. They’re all acquired from cultures it’s absorbed.
    Islam’s architectural root is the tent.

  5. I had a client who warranted a once-a-month 3-4 hour lunch – always at the same restaurant in the area. Am embarrassed to admit I sometimes slept it off on one of the cathedral pews.

  6. But surely mistaking Westminster Cathedral for a mosque is a bigger mistake than confusing the names of Westminster Abbey and Westminster Cathedral? Also, the ES, unlike UKIP, does not aspire to govern us; so UKIP’s mistakes and confusions are of greater significance. Given the generally lower-level of education in UKIP, we can expect to see more howlers before long.

  7. @ Theophrastus

    They didn’t confuse the names, the confused the buildings. We can all agree that it would be absurd for someone to think that Westminster Abbey is a mosque.. it is, after all, one of the most famous buildings in the country. One might then argue that a newspaper mocking someone for thinking that Westminster Cathedral looks like a mosque would, themselves, know that Westminster Cathedral is not Westminster Abbey.

    Before today, I had no idea what Westminster Cathedral looks like. Or even that it existed. But I knew that Westminster Abbey wasn’t it.

    Idiot manning UKIP twitter feed makes idiot mistake (I think it’s fair enough to ask ‘is that a mosque’, but if you’re posting under the party banner then you check. Also, who gives a fuck?) fair enough.. but the newspaper mocking the idiot made an idiot mistake too. Classic pendantry error, innit.

  8. I wouldn’t be embarrassed Bernie – a perfectly good use for a cathedral (and that hold true whether said by a Christian or an atheist).

  9. TTG,

    But surely we should hold UKIP to higher standards than the ES?

    UKIP aspires to change our national destiny by exiting the ghastly EU — or it did until it morphed into populist party campaigning on immigration.

    Vote UKIP*, GET MILIPEDO!
    *unless you vote tactically to maximise the right-of-centre vote

  10. Bernie,
    Many things go on in Cathedrals that shouldn’t, and you were in the right place for forgiveness.

    In my youth, Canterbury Cathedral was a useful sanctuary for illicit smoking. Definitely not the worst thing to happen there.

  11. “… the Cathedral does look like a mosque …”

    It is more correct to say a mosque looks like the Cathedral, after all, the classic dome of your everyday ancient Islamic place of worship comes from the original designs from churches of the lands that were first to be conquered, as on which the (relatively modern) Cathedral was also based.

  12. So Much for Subtlety

    Diogenes – “It looks like a neo-Byzantine Christian church, of which many were built in the 19th century, eg the cathedrals in Riga and Sofia. You might also think of Christ Church in the Brixton Road or the Sacre – Coeur in Paris. I am also not sure why you think that Venice is not Catholic.”

    I don’t think Venice is not Catholic. I think that Ruskin’s love of multi-coloured brick which was inspired by Venice is a very unusual preference for a Catholic Church. Ruskin being so Upper Middle Class and Anglican. That gave us Keble College for instance. The Catholic tradition in the UK was for the French Cathedral and when that was broken it was re-invented by people like Pugin. Not Byzantine.

    I don’t think it is fair to say Sacre – Coeur is in the same tradition. It uses white marble for one.

    Rob – “I thought it was Eastern Orthodox”

    Venice has a strong Eastern Orthodox influence.

    Theophrastus – “UKIP aspires to change our national destiny by exiting the ghastly EU — or it did until it morphed into populist party campaigning on immigration.”

    The Tories and Labour are successfully changing our national destiny by reducing the indigenous population to a minority in a sea of people who hate them and their values. By all means, bring on UKIP. At least they listen to what people want.

    “Vote UKIP*, GET MILIPEDO!”

    Vote Tory, Get Sharia.

  13. Why does anyone expect a “journalist” to know the difference between two churches? The difference between two pubs, just possibly.

  14. SMFS:
    “The Tories and Labour are successfully changing our national destiny by reducing the indigenous population to a minority in a sea of people who hate them and their values. By all means, bring on UKIP. At least they listen to what people want”.

    What Western Europeans want, on average is to have a number of children below replacement level. We have decided that children are too stressful, expensive, etc etc.

    So, ultimately, we will disappear anyway.

    Where you make your bloomer is in assuming that the average immigrant wants to retain their original culture in toto, ie that the average Pakistani does NOT want to enjoy what the West offers. This is nonsense.

  15. So Much for Subtlety

    Jack C – “What Western Europeans want, on average is to have a number of children below replacement level. We have decided that children are too stressful, expensive, etc etc. So, ultimately, we will disappear anyway.”

    Perhaps. But it is better to decline as Japan is – as a smaller population in a homogeneous society – than as, say, the Greeks of Asia Minor did. Or the Native Americans did.

    However basically you are wrong. Women report wanting to have more children and to spend more time with them. We have government policies aimed at pushing them out of the home and into the work force. We have an education system devoted to demeaning motherhood. We have an entertainment industry that is openly contemptuous of women who stay at home and have children. All of those things we can change. We do not need to accept extinction.

    “Where you make your bloomer is in assuming that the average immigrant wants to retain their original culture in toto, ie that the average Pakistani does NOT want to enjoy what the West offers. This is nonsense.”

    I don’t assume that. The Third World wants what we have. They may even want to dump parts of their culture. Can they? The evidence seems to be that they can’t. Partly they do not want to. They want to keep the bits they like and that appears to be enough to hold them back. Puerto Rico has US institutions and a US rule of law. It has all that Adam Smith said was necessary for prosperity. It is still a Third World sh!thole teetering on the edge of debt default. But partly they just can’t. Everyone has been trying to become modern. But they all have failed except for a small number of East Asian countries.

    So if the average Pakistani wants what we have and the choice is 1. stop marrying their cousins and embrace Katie Price as a role model for their daughters or 2. beat White people until they give them all their cash, they are going to opt for 2. Every time.

  16. SMFS, I’m going to have to assume you don’t know many forriners.

    We’re very lucky to have been brought up in a very well-established liberal democracy. It doesn’t make us naturally superior though.

  17. So Much for Subtlety

    Jack C – “I’m going to have to assume you don’t know many forriners.”

    Anything rather than deal with the actual issue? The South Asian communities in Britain have had every chance to dump what they don’t like and adopt what they do. How is that working out? Not so bad if you’re Hindu. Within reason. Pretty poorly if you’re a Muslim. More British Muslims fighting with IS than serving in all the Armed Force.

    “We’re very lucky to have been brought up in a very well-established liberal democracy. It doesn’t make us naturally superior though.”

    A well-established liberal democracy is not an act of God. It is not a natural feature of the landscape like the cliffs of Dover. Nor can it be produced as an act of will. It is the product of 2000 years of British history. That is why no one else can do it. We can give Pakistan institutions and laws, but no one else can make them work.

    Whether that makes us naturally superior or not depends on what you mean by superior. It does mean that a good future for the world depends on Britain remaining British.

  18. bloke (not) in spain

    “More British Muslims fighting with IS than serving in all the Armed Force.(s)”
    SMfS. When it comes to opposing the representatives of the UK State, I’m tempted to side with IS.

  19. Jack C- “We’re very lucky to have been brought up in a very well-established liberal democracy. It doesn’t make us naturally superior though”

    You don’t think western culture is superior to Islamic culture? I bet you do really.

    People give rise to cultures that reflect the way they are. Cultures in turn reinforce the inherited characteristics of their people. It is very mistaken to think that if we transplant a large amount of people from Islamic cultures into the UK that they will eventually “become” British. They have neither the cultural inclination nor the ability. What they want is what we own, not what we are.

    “It does mean that a good future for the world depends on Britain remaining British.”

    And on Holland remaining Dutch, Germany remaining German, Italy remaining Italian, France remaining French, Sweden remaining Swedish, Ireland remaining Irish, Spain remaining Spanish, and so on. We have already allowed an alien culture that despises us to strongly establish itself across most of Europe, the birth place and still core of our culture. Why are we doing this?

    As SMFS says, better to see population decline while retaining culture as Japan, not to replace it with something else. At least the first option allows the survival of the culture and people, retaining a core which can be built upon again. The second is the acceptance of oblivion within a few generations. If we are not careful we will soon find ourselves in a similar position to the Israelis or the Afrikaners.

  20. “When it comes to opposing the representatives of the UK State, I’m tempted to side with IS.”

    I guess you are joking in order to emphasis the decline and confusion wrought by our political leaders in recent decades?

  21. bloke (not) in spain

    @Tomsmith
    Not so sure about the humour. Brit military has degenerated into a mercenary force to serve the whims of politicians’ foreign adventures. At least whilst it’s occupied abroad it’s leaving its countrymen alone. But that will change.
    Enemy of my enemy stuff.
    Be a help if people didn’t join the bloody thing.

  22. I’d still prefer to live under weak meddling British politicians than under Isis rule. Isis are much more my enemy than Ed Miliband because they want to kill me and Ed doesn’t, at least not quickly.

  23. wow…2000 years of British history. Perhaps the person who wrote that should calm down. British history starts around 1715.

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