Timmy elsewhereNovember 16, 2014 Tim WorstallTimmy Elsewhere6 CommentsAt the ASI: Yes, unions are lovely things, a reflection of the right of association. However…. previousI’ve a certain sympathy with thisnextThere’s part of Ritchie’s tax gap 6 thoughts on “Timmy elsewhere” dearieme November 16, 2014 at 11:38 am “unions are lovely things”: except when they are gangster organisations, as they so often have been. bloke (not) in spain November 16, 2014 at 1:14 pm Interesting comment, dearieme. Seems to depend on whether the freely associating accumulate power whilst doing so. Take Tim’s list. “the London Library, the Women’s Institute, the RNLI and RSPCA, companies, co ops, the Kennel Club, Arsenal Football Club and yes, even, sadly, the Simon Cowell Fan Club.” The RSPCA seems to have been awarded notional “powers” & exercises them by sending round uniformed thugs to harass pet keepers. Of course, he left out political parties. And the mafia. Not saying one should necessarily conflate.. Surreptitious Evil November 16, 2014 at 2:38 pm I’m not sure that I object as much to “facility time” as much as I do to full-time union employees on the public teat. I’ve dealt, private sector, with unions reps at disciplinary and tribunal and they were better (fewer spurious arguments, better focussed good ones, less whining when it was clear the toad was bang to rights) and cheaper than lawyers. The very limited involvement I had with pay negotiations, they were also quite sensible. So allowing part time activity is no worse than allowing, say, extra paid time off for being in the military reserves (as a number of employers do), or being a JP or on the Childrens’ Panel. Full-time union employees should be paid by the union. Kevin B November 16, 2014 at 7:15 pm Freedom of Association? Wonderful! Of course, if the government starts giving my money to these associations in order that they can pay their top bods six-figure salaries for the onerous task of castigating me for my meanness,.. Not so much. Ironman November 16, 2014 at 9:12 pm Surreptitious Evil May I second your comment complete Sir. May I also suggest that every organisation ever created by men, every single association ever freely entered into has inevitably at some point been corrupted. This does nothing to undermine the fundamental value of the association. So no, unions are not to be mentioned in the same breath as the Mafia. So Much for Subtlety November 16, 2014 at 10:42 pm Surreptitious Evil – “I’ve dealt, private sector, with unions reps at disciplinary and tribunal and they were better (fewer spurious arguments, better focussed good ones, less whining when it was clear the toad was bang to rights) and cheaper than lawyers.” Well who isn’t cheaper and better than lawyers? I mean, really. But you are not dealing with Unions per se. You are dealing with post-Thatcher unions. When they know the gig is up and there isn’t much they can do about it. Let us all remember back to the good old days of shop floor militants when Unions were an organised conspiracy against the public. The precondition for good Unions seems to be to extend the right of association to everyone – and so ban the closed shop and the like. “So allowing part time activity is no worse than allowing, say, extra paid time off for being in the military reserves (as a number of employers do), or being a JP or on the Childrens’ Panel. ” Being in the military reserves is a public good and a company should be praised if they allow it. Being in a Union is not. What is worse, soldiers defend us all. Unions are an organised conspiracy against the employers. There is no reason why shareholders ought to be forced to pay for someone who is out to rip them off. If they are serious about representing employees, allow all employees, right up to management, join. The bottom line remains that while Unions have improved a lot, no company can survive with a Union. The Unionised sector has been in slow decline for decades. Partly that is because companies with Unions escape them, but mostly because companies with Unions are inevitably forced into bankruptcy. They may sound moderate, and a small number of companies may actually have sensible Unions, but far too many of them are still havens of Trots who never grew up. Leave a Reply Cancel replyYour email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *Comment Name * Email * Website Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.