Umm, no, no, I don’t think so

Scottish MPs will retain full voting rights on UK Budgets despite control over income tax being transferred to the Edinburgh parliament, Labour sources have said ahead of the publication on Thursday of a cross-party deal on devolution.

That’s cake and eat it politics.

It’s such an obvious fiddle to leave open the possibility of Labour being able to gain a majority to influence English tax rates that it’s laughable.

Bugger off.

21 thoughts on “Umm, no, no, I don’t think so”

  1. So Much for Subtlety

    Obviously they have to try it on though. The alternative is that their South-Eastern English cash cow might not continue to give them the money they need to pay their clients in the North and Celtic Fringe. What future for Labour then? They cannot compete ideologically with the Greens. All they have is patronage.

  2. If they proceed with this, I predict it will be the straw on the camel’s back.

    For the simple reason that no one doubts that the first Scotch Taxes Act will be to reduce their burden relative to England. All part of the well known Socialist bleat that we should all pay more taxes except for, err, some people.

    And if that happens, I for one will be making a peaceful protest at Westminster. I’ll combine the trip with a bit of piano repairing, officer…

  3. bloke (not) in spain

    Let’s see, eh?
    My prediction’s the craven English will swallow it
    Like they swallow everything else.

  4. Was there anyone on here who thought Camorgueron wasn’t going to sell England out?. That is what he does–sells out. After the Scotland referendum various numpties on various blogs were saying he had played “a blinder” and this would sort out West Lothian and be a death-blow to ZaNuLab. Of course not. That might upset the cultural Marxist applecart and would be bad news for his own gang. The only possible reason anyone would vote for the scum of BluLabour is the shite of ZaNu looming in the wings Our own Theoprastus is living proof of concept. After all he has to keep his investments safe.

  5. I cannot understand why there was an Conservative support for the No campaign. An independent Scotland would have solved a lot of problems: Barnett formula, Midlothian question, Brexit. Something else Dave blew.

  6. Cameron will, of course, do nothing, despite this being a massive open goal just needing a tap-in from one yard out.

    As Bnis said, most people will not utter a peep and the BBC will brand people who do as right-wing extremists and nationalists (which for England is a derogatory term for them, unlike for Scotland)

  7. I can understand Cameron campaigning for a ‘no’, being PM of the United Kingdom. He has no excuse over English home rule.

    The next election might actually be interesting. If the SNP wipe out Labour I will laugh myself senseless, but I’m sceptical. The tribal stupidity of Labour’s core vote runs deep.

  8. I reckon it’s a piece of propaganda ahead of negotiations so that they can push for other hand-outs to Labour interests in exchange for something that should not even be considered.

  9. Of course it could potentially mean a government secure in confidence and supply but unable to get any other business through the house. I wonder how long the confidence would last?

  10. bloke (not) in spain

    Problem is; I can’t see you can not have Scottish MPs voting on UK finance bills & still have a UK. Because they’re UK (in bigger capitals) finance bills.
    An English parliament voting English hypothecated taxes would solve it. But that’s a federation, which is a long long way from where UK is now.

  11. The situation is a mess. Either Westminster pulls all powers back to the middle or we stop tinkering and head to full federalisation with Westminster only having limited responsibility (such as foreign policy and defence).

  12. MP’s voting on taxes from which they and their constituents are exempt. Something of a first in modern elected democracies I imagine.

  13. “Was there anyone on here who thought Camorgueron wasn’t going to sell England out?”

    How do you work that one out, Ecky? Cross-party support is needed to stop the SNP crying betrayal or questioning the durability of this devo-max; but Milipaedo won’t agree to EVEL. Yet EVEL will be in the Conservative Manifesto. So how has Cameron sold out? The problem is Milimong, not Cameron.

    Meanwhile, anyone who blindly votes UKIP is helping to ensure that Milimarx becomes PM. Yet voting tactically will provide the best result. If I was unfortunate enough to live in Doncaster (MP, Ed Milimuddle), I would vote UKIP, as Lord Ashcroft’s polling shows that UKIP, not the Tories, have the best chance of defeating Milly.

    You will reply with the Liblabcon equivalence argument, which is bunk. Outside of mathematics, very few things in the world are equivalent or equal. On the economy alone, the Tories have done and would do better than Labour.

    Alex:

    “MP’s voting on taxes from which they and their constituents are exempt. Something of a first in modern elected democracies I imagine.”

    Not sure about that…Greece or Italy before the crash? Taxes on non-doms in the UK? Labour’s mansion tax, if introduced? MPs aside, huge numbers of people pay no tax (except VAT), or get more in benefits than they pay in tax, while voting for increased taxation on others.

  14. “…possibility of Labour being able to gain a majority…” of course you’re right; but on current showings the SNP are going to wipe out Scottish Labour so they won’t get a majority anyway.

    And as for this “…first Scotch Taxes Act will be to reduce their burden relative to England…” no, you’re simply wrong. Anyone who thinks the SNP wants powers over taxation in order to reduce it has been living on the moon. The SNP and their cheerleaders never met a tax they didn’t like, or one they didn’t want to increase. In Scotland giving the State all your money to waste is regarded as a superior moral position for some reason.

  15. The solution is to have a UK budget on which the Scottish MPs get a vote, and and English budget on which they don’t. Easy peasy.

  16. bloke (not) in spain

    “Easy peasy.”
    This is the nightmare scenario. A UK government, in power thanx to its Scotch MPs, unable to control the finances of the larger portion of the UK, which has elected a government of the opposite hue.

  17. @ b(n)is
    To get your nightmare we need to have a Labour Government elected with not only less than 30% of the overall votes but less than the Conservative opposition and less than 25% in England. In 2005 Labour got a lot fewer votes than the Conservatives in England but 91 more MPs in England. It got roughly 80% more seats overall with less than 3% more of the votes (9% more if you use the Conservative votes, rather than the total, as the denominator).
    OK that *is* a nightmare, but I think the inability to pass laws governing England but not Scotland by using votes of Scottish MPs to over-ride the votes of the majority of English MPs (while English MPs cannot vote on laws specifically covering Scotland) is not the worst part of it.

  18. Theo,Theo,Theo,

    Ever the fantasist:

    “On the economy alone, the Tories have done and would do better than Labour.”

    In the sense that being there during the arrival of a 60 foot tidal wave is “less” dangerous than being there when a 90 foot tidal wave comes on shore. You can only drown the once however. If the moronic, socialistic antics of BluLabour are your idea of “doing better on the economy” you deserve to loose every penny of your investments. I was going to say and end up in debt as well–but everyone in the UK has approx. £20000 debt if the states borrowings were evenly divided so you are already there.

    I dIdn’t really care about the cost of this devo-max crap so long as we were buying the socialism supporting Scotchers out of the HoC. That is what various bloggers were suggesting right after the vote. If Camera-mong can deliver that he will have one small achievement to put on the plus side of the ledger. Where it would enjoy a splendid isolation. However the more I see the more I believe devo will cost us a fortune and the tartan crew will still be bolstering ZaNu long after Camille’s best efforts are another shoddy page in history.

  19. @john77: I would distinguish politicians who vote on tax provisions that might never apply to the. It is conceivable that an MP would never realise a capital gain, buy a drop of booze or packet of fags or take a plane from a UK airport, but that is completely different from an MP voting on a form of tax from which they are exempt.

    I think you have to g back to pre-revolutionary France for that.

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