I don’t like fat German socialists

I’m not sure which of the trio is the problem but the combination definitely doesn’t engender joy.

At which point I think I can boil down into a nutshell by basic objection to the European Union. I’m pretty sure that, if we worked at it, we could work out how to have free trade across this delightful continent of ours, a degree of cooperation between national governments and so on without Martin Schultz having any political power over

This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,–
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.

Given that that’s not the system we do have that’s why I’m agin’ it.

15 thoughts on “I don’t like fat German socialists”

  1. Yeah, we were a long way from perfect and after the war a bit lost……….. but we did some things very well without any help from fat German Socialists or fat French ****ers come to think on it.
    40 years of Cultural Marxism and paying through the nose for European infrastructure and open borders, true the bureaucrats and some people have benefitted but not the ordinary Joe and Joanna. Britons, they are still the bedrock, how it will end God only knows but the only hope is, at least when we get out we can steer our own course again – trade and the sea – that’s what we do.

  2. The Cultural Marxism has very little to do with the EU. It’s an American import. One way of looking at things- in different times, you tend to get a philosophical nexus somewhere. The Scottish Englightenment for instance; later on, for a while everything traces to Germany. The current suite of fashionable ideas- “cultural marxism”, “neoliberalism”, and so on, traces to post-war America with a particular centre in New York. Same applies (interestingly enough, as notionally a libertarian) to modern libertarianism; Ayn Rand, Murray Rothbard.

    The EU is a Bad Thing, but the big bad ideas we’re suffering at the moment aren’t coming from across the Channel, but from across the Atlantic.

  3. Whether it be of the USA [agreed] or enabled by the ECHR/ECJ – Brussels has played it’s part in giving Westminster the excuse.

  4. The left wing movement of the EU started with Delors who showed the British left that the EU could be used to favour “progressive” social change. Before that Benn and others were against it.

  5. Odd (or maybe not) how often that when quoted, this speech gets truncated towards the end of the celebratory bit. The final part being perhaps a touch too close to the truth for some.

    “This land of such dear souls, this dear dear land,
    Dear for her reputation through the world,
    Is now leased out, I die pronouncing it,
    Like to a tenement or pelting farm:
    England, bound in with the triumphant sea
    Whose rocky shore beats back the envious siege
    Of watery Neptune, is now bound in with shame,
    With inky blots and rotten parchment bonds:
    That England, that was wont to conquer others,
    Hath made a shameful conquest of itself.
    Ah, would the scandal vanish with my life,
    How happy then were my ensuing death!”

  6. So Much for Subtlety

    Ian B – “The Cultural Marxism has very little to do with the EU. It’s an American import.”

    In fairness Cultural Marxism is just the Frankfurt School. It is a German import to America which America is busy re-exporting.

  7. SMFS,

    It isn’t just the Frankfurt School. The Frankfurt School simply found a home among other radicals in the USA (that New York millieu I mentioned). They are a component of the philosophy that developed. It’s far more complex than the “half a dozen German Jews turn up and remake America” narrative that’s popular on the Right at the moment. They found themselves in the right place at the right time to provide important ideas to a leftist cohort who were already in existence.

  8. So Much for Subtlety

    Ian B – “It’s far more complex than the “half a dozen German Jews turn up and remake America” narrative that’s popular on the Right at the moment.”

    Sure. Half a dozen German Marxists (often Jews) turned up and remade America with the help of thousands other people, often German and Russian in origin and usually Jewish by ancestral faith. Well more or less.

    This sort of ideology is alien to the Anglo-sphere tradition. Which is why most English speaking intellectuals were liberals in the TW sense until the 1960s. Since then the Anglosphere’s universities have been dominated by those whose intellectual roots are in Europe – and so they have invariably supported totalitarianism. Of any sort.

  9. @SMFS

    ‘Which is why most English speaking intellectuals were liberals in the TW sense until the 1960s.’

    I don’t think that’s right.

  10. They were less and less liberals before the 1960s. One might see the latest wave as the coup de grace against liberalism, but, well, that’s where my tedious comments about puritan revivalists have explanatory power, I believe. The alien element is older than the New Left.

  11. Frederick
    December 5, 2014 at 11:09 am

    The left wing movement of the EU started with Delors who showed the British left that the EU could be used to favour “progressive” social change. Before that Benn and others were against it.

    Delors sold the EU to Maggie on the basis of the single market.

    Labour and the rest of the left only became pro EU when they realised Maggie was against it. There’s only one thing that unites the left, a hatred of the Tories and its pathological when it comes to Maggie, so they had their unifying position again.

    To be fair to Tony Benn, and I don’t say that too often, he remained opposed to the EU form the start when it was the Common Market and throughout all this career.

  12. @Interested & SMFS

    Doesn’t Bradbury’s The History Man mark the transition to totalitarianism? He wrote it in 1974.

  13. So Much for Subtlety

    Interested – “I don’t think that’s right.”

    Britain fought World War Two without a significant pro-Nazi lobby in the universities. Unlike every other European country. It fought in Malaya and Korea without a large pro-Communist Fifth Column as well. That was not true by the time of Vietnam.

    Something changed.

    Ian B – “They were less and less liberals before the 1960s.”

    Sure. They did not flick a switch and suddenly everyone was a Communist. It was a process. But as a rule of thumb, before the Baby Boomers, people took liberalism seriously. After it, not so much.

    “One might see the latest wave as the coup de grace against liberalism, but, well, that’s where my tedious comments about puritan revivalists have explanatory power, I believe. The alien element is older than the New Left.”

    Except the older puritans still had respect for things like the Constitution and the rule of law. The New Left took over groups like the Feminist lobby and re-made them in their own image. A Marxist image.

  14. The American Constution had already had several serious subversive lurches. The Civil War period, the New Deal in the 1930s. It was far from pristine when the New Left arrived.

    The 2nd Wave feminist movement simply took 1st Wave (Victorian) values and remodelled them for the 1960s, using the then fashionable marxist paradigm as a new justifying ideology. Marxists didn’t subvert some previously worthy feminism. Revival feminism adopted (post-)marxist theory.

    The “older puritans” had no more respect for liberalism or the US Constitution than the new ones. They never do. Liberalism allows Satan to operate in the world, after all.

  15. So Much for Subtlety

    Ian B – “The American Constution had already had several serious subversive lurches. The Civil War period, the New Deal in the 1930s. It was far from pristine when the New Left arrived.”

    The Civil War was a temporary blip that passed. America after the war was perfectly liberal. The New Deal was more of a problem – but that proves my point. FDR had to bully the Supreme Court into doing his bidding and he also needed the support of some judges who were moving up in the system and had no respect for the English legal tradition.

    “The 2nd Wave feminist movement simply took 1st Wave (Victorian) values and remodelled them for the 1960s, using the then fashionable marxist paradigm as a new justifying ideology. Marxists didn’t subvert some previously worthy feminism. Revival feminism adopted (post-)marxist theory.”

    I don’t think it was worthy, but I don’t think it was Marxism either. The First Wave did not make abortion a central sacrament of their movement. Nor did they want women to leave their husbands and form communes.

    “The “older puritans” had no more respect for liberalism or the US Constitution than the new ones. They never do. Liberalism allows Satan to operate in the world, after all.”

    I disagree. Puritans often do. In fact puritans are the only people who do. If you do not take a strict, fundamentalist, approach to interpreting a document, it can and will mean anything.

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