That Green Party Manifesto

As interpreted by the Telegraph. One bit:

“Richer regions do not have the right to use migration controls to protect their privileges from others in the long term,” the party’s policy book states.

A Green Government will “progressively reduce” border controls, including an amnesty for illegal immigrants after five years.

Crucially, import taxes will be levied on goods brought to Britain reflecting the “ecological impact” of making them – with tariffs reintroduced for trade between Britain and the rest of Europe, ending the free trade bloc.

 

People will be free to move but goods won’t?

 

They’re weird, aren’t they?

 

77 thoughts on “That Green Party Manifesto”

  1. So Much for Subtlety

    People will be free to move but goods won’t? They’re weird, aren’t they?

    Not at all. They are perfectly consistent. They do not like Western civilisation and want to destroy it. Thus they want Britain flooded with Third World peons. At the same time, Western civilisation has made the world incomparably rich. Which they also do not like. So they want to end that as well.

    They are no different from the three main Lib-Dem parties. Who also hate us and want to destroy Britain. They are just not as pro-Crony-Big-Business as the Tories, the real Lib-Dems or New Labour. And a little more honest about what they think.

  2. Ah, Tarriff Reform. It’s nice to see them modernise, getting from the Middle Ages right the way up to the 19th century. Joseph Chamberlain would be proud.

    As to the two policies, they are consistent. Both are predicated on the ruinous impoverishment of the lowest classes; essential for maintaining bourgeois control (and nobody is more bourgeois than a Green); hence you force down wages (by labour market flooding) while forcing up prices (by tarriffs and the stifling of trade). Since mass migration causes unemployment, and unemployment manifests at the bottom of the economy, the reduction of the proletariat is guaranteed. Very Green.

  3. People will be free to move but goods won’t; yep, weird.
    Goods will be free to.move but people won’t; just as weird.

    Two sides of the same coin.

  4. Ironman-

    People and goods are different things. You might have noticed that goods don’t actually have personhood, whereas persons do. This is why you have the other apparent inconsistency that you’re allowed to buy and sell washing machines and apples, but not people. It is actually quite normal to treat people and things in different ways.

    (PS You can marry a person, but not a lawnmower. Can you guess why?)

  5. They are Open Borders nutters (amongst their other failings) and their true goal is the destruction of the status quo.

    Because they fondly imagine that they will arise from the chaos that would follow as the winners, which goes to show just how deluded they really are.

  6. So Much for Subtlety

    Ironman – “Goods will be free to.move but people won’t; just as weird.”

    Those darned Israelis. What are they thinking? Sure they are badly outnumbered by Palestinians much less all the other Arab countries, but they should let them all move to Jaffa as soon as possible. Maybe even skip frisking them for AK-47s.

    Ironman thinks any less is racism.

    A good society depends on border restrictions. There is no welfare state if you have any reasonable amount of immigration. There is no social contract. There is nothing but an ugly war of all against all. As in Brazil. Or South Africa. Or anywhere else with a sizeable minority.

  7. I think their ultimate vision is of a multi culti stick rubbing and flint making hemp covered encampment surviving by supplying the world with beads and sandals produced by weed sozzled part time earth mothers living of benefits supplied by…..ah thats where it breaks down, there isn’t anyone else………..

  8. The recent uptick in support for The Greens is just the awkward brigade of the left shifting to a party who are Not Labour/Not Lib Dem.

    Being an effete metropolitan type, I know a few people who have pledged their support. None of whom have any interest in politics at all, or could name a single Green policy – they just like the idea of those lovely hippies with their lovely ideas to save the lovely baby seals. Lovely.

    Once/If the drivel in their manifesto becomes more widely known they’ll be back to their usual 2%. The open borders thing especially will do for them.

    I will bet actual money that the Greens don’t end up with more than 2 mps.

  9. Haha — haven’t seen this one before;

    “Under cultural reforms, the Greens will explore a “a tax on superstar performances” to support “local cultural enterprises”

    So a portion of your ticket to go see, say Lady Gaga or Bob Dylan will be shovelled towards a lute player from Kidderminster. Brilliant.

    “The England football, rugby and cricket teams would no longer play against countries where “normal, friendly, respectful or diplomatic relations are not possible.”

    That’ll be the Israelis then. Hippies hate Jews.

  10. http://policy.greenparty.org.uk/ny.html

    NY100 Ov”er the last decades, British nationality law has been used to restrict the number of Black people having the right to live in the UK while maximising the opportunities for white non-residents with British ancestors to retain this right. The Green Party believes that such nationality laws must be reformed”.

    In other words, don’t bring in people who are immediately assimilated into our society, but discriminate on the grounds of race.
    Or have I got it wrong?

  11. Dan

    “That’ll be the Israelis then. Hippies hate Jews.”

    Luckly for us under a Green regime, Israel arent very good at any of those sports and could only realistically be paired against england in football. Still, its odd isnt it, to mention rugby and cricket, considering the nations that play those sports are ex-commonwealth (rugby has a minor ex-eastern bloc and south american following), i dont really know who they would be talking about us not playing?

    Lastly, as someone who reads the history of ideas and tries to shy away from bombastic name-calling of political opponents, I cant avoid just saying that Green ideas and policies are just reactionary, proto-fascist garbage. The Marxists in the late 1960s and 1970s used to agree, a german chap called Hans Magnus Enzensberger in the New Left Review brilliantly outlines the reactionary bourgeois nature of ecological politics. Until of course the Left lost the cold war and in place of the working class themselves shifted to environmental concerns to bash capitalism and with it rejecting progress etc etc.

  12. “(PS You can marry a person, but not a lawnmower. Can you guess why?)”

    And we also marry adults; not children. Can YOU guess why?

  13. Ironman, considering you have no idea of what the difference between an adult and a child is, perhaps you should ask yourself that question.

  14. I was once orderly officer at a bomber base on the north coast of Scotland one weekend, when I got a call from the Guardroom that civpol wanted to talk to me. When i asked who had been nicked for what, I was assured it was nothing like that but rather about the Israeli cricket team…

  15. So Much for Subtlety

    Rob Harries – “Still, its odd isnt it, to mention rugby and cricket, considering the nations that play those sports are ex-commonwealth (rugby has a minor ex-eastern bloc and south american following), i dont really know who they would be talking about us not playing?”

    They are generals still fighting the last war. They mean South Africa.

    Not, I notice, North Korea or Iran.

    Ironman – “To remind everyone else: yes, I think you are a thick racist twat.”

    Good for you. I remind everyone else I continue to be the one with arguments. You continue to rely on purile insults on par with smearing the walls with faeces.

  16. So Much for Subtlety

    TomJ – “I was once orderly officer at a bomber base … I was assured it was nothing like that but rather about the Israeli cricket team…”

    Bomber base? Cricket team? I don’t want to come over all George Galloway, but I think that if Israelis want to see your bombs, they ain’t really a cricket team.

  17. So Much for Subtlety

    Squander Two – “I don’t want to come over George Galloway either.”

    Yeah, well, I didn’t want to go there, my mistake, but come to think of it, he would completely deserve it.

  18. It seemed there was a minor nations cricket cupgoing on in Glasgae but, due to some unpleasantness going on with Hezbollah, there were security worries about the Israelis playing their game. The Staish heard about it and pointed out he had a cricket pitch behind the wire, armed guards and a fair distance for most troublemakers to travel – I think he mainly wanted to claim to have an international pitch on his station. I had heard nothing about it but as I was OIC rugby I had some of the PTI SNCO numbers to hand to find out what exactly it was all about.

    I still wonder why it couldn’t have been about the Swedich beach volleyball team…

  19. The Other Bloke in Italy

    Tom, I had thought that the strange stories coming out of the Forces (vide George MacDonald Fraser) must have dried up, but you have restored my faith.

  20. Nice to see the Torygraph give the Greens a kicking. They thoroughly deserve it, for they are truly the nasty party of British politics – far, far more destructive in the effect of their ambitions than even the BNP or the Communist Party of Great Britain.

    Doesn’t matter how good and fluffy and organic their intentions are. All that matters is the results:

    Animal Rights
    To take pressure off wild animals by voluntarily limiting our population

    Suicide booths for everybody! And unlimited immigration!

    The Green Party would ban all experimentation and research which harms animals

    Fuck you, cancer patients and HIV positive people!

    The Green Party will phase out all forms of ‘factory farming’ and support a transition to small free-range units

    Fuck you, poor people who enjoy being able to afford food!

    The Green Party will support a progressive transition from diets dominated by meat and other animal products to healthier diets based on plant foods

    We’ll be forced to be “healthy” like those sallow, androgynous-looking vegan freaks in the Green Party.

    The Green Party would abolish research into, and the practise of xenotransplantation (the transplantation of nonhuman animal organs, genetically engineered or otherwise, into human beings)

    Why does the Green Party hate science?

    Crime

    Greater emphasis on ensuring diversity in all levels of policing so that they include people from a range of backgrounds including people from black and ethnic minorities, different sexual orientations, various faiths, trans people, and other social and cultural backgrounds, and are more equal in the employment of men and women.

    They think “Police Academy” was a documentary.

    All accused who admit the offence or are convicted would immediately be provided with an opportunity to offer reparation to the victim(s).

    “Sorry I raped you! Here’s a card and flowers.”

    The Green Party is therefore committed to significantly reducing the prison population.

    Pedos for EVERYBODY!

    Population control
    A measure of the impact of a population is its ecological footprint. The Green Party believes that it is essential to reduce the UK’s total ecological footprint. To this end the Green Party aims to reduce total resource consumption, ensuring maximum use of renewable resources, in order to reduce per capita consumption. This will ensure that the UK population leaves a reduced ecological footprint, eventually enabling it to become sustainable.

    And whatever remaining kiddies there are will be sure to enjoy playing on the organic, biodegradable, mountain of human skulls!

    The Green Party has a liberal migration policy and wants greater global justice and equality, so people who migrate can do so on the basis of choice, not economic hardship. Where migration patterns increase or decrease population levels it is essential that social, economic and environmental pressures are mitigated

    We get unlimited immigration AND every person in Britain will be forced to reduce their consumption every time an immigrant gets off a plane at Heathrow.

    That’s bound to do wonders for race relations.

    we look forward to a society in which people of all ages continue to work as long as they wish […] Measures would include the removal of the compulsory retirement age and the introduction of more flexible working arrangements.

    “Sorry, gran. I know you’re 90, but you’d better pick up that shovel and get back to the communal farm or no organic locally sourced turnip for you!”

  21. Ah^^^ – I was halfway thru a similar post but Steve beat me to it (and did it better).

    Honestly, the whole manifesto is full of gems like this — it’s a startling document. If you’re a fan of root vegetable gruel and dying of preventable diseases then the Greens are the party for you.

  22. I liked this bit:

    The party is often dubbed the “Ukip of the left”. But an examination of the party’s core priorities – in a document called Policies for a Sustainable Society, set at the party’s annual conference – reveals they are far more radical in their aims than Nigel Farage’s outfit.

    Well, yeah. He just wears a suit.

  23. SMFS

    There are no arguments to make with you. You think we are better than others and it’s to do with us being White. You think that muslims – not just a very.small number.of them – want to destroy our culture.and our freedoms (though curiously you don’t place any store by the institutions that underpin hose freedoms). You are in short.a racist.

    You also.make.argument based upon extremes – Isreal being a country existing under the most extreme pressures and challenges – and try to draw universal conclusions. So you go ahead and make your ‘arguments’ you thick racist twat.

    IanB

    I and the law of our land believe that adults start at 16. You don’t. You want men to be free to shag 14 year old and provide the strangest creepiest arguments in support. Weird.

  24. I’m going to send my lawnmower to the UK. There it will demand an interpreter, family reunion with other Hondas, subsidised housing, child benefit for little lawnmowers, free health care, free school meals, and more policing. (But less policing when the lawnmower is doing what lawnmowers do.) Oh, and a mobility scooter ‘cos the traction belt has come off.

  25. Jocularity aside, the Greens don’t seem to have realised that they couldn’t influence immigration policy or tariffs even if elected.

    Because of that EU thingy they are also keen on.

  26. “They’re weird, aren’t they?”

    “Away with the fairies” doesn’t even scratch the surface – although – isn’t this one of yours, Tim?

    THE CITIZENS’ INCOME

    The flagship policy is an unconditional, non-withdrawable income of £71 a week for everyone living in Britain “as a right of citizenship”, regardless of wealth or whether they are seeking work.

  27. bloke in france

    Their manifesto commitments would require a withdrawal from the EU and a whole raft of international treaties, conventions and bodies. I’m not sure if they’ve worked that out yet.

    As a general question; why would nybody WANT to restrict freedom of movement of people.

  28. “As a general question; why would nybody WANT to restrict freedom of movement of people.”

    As SMFS pointed out above, how do you finance a welfare state if anyone that is say penniless can simply come in and demand resources from it.

    Amongst other issues such as culture, property rights, etc – I remember a lengthy thread on this a while back. Ironman, I don’t think you were impressed at the time with your fellow contributors, if memory serves!

  29. Thanks Steve, as I said “reactionary, proto-fascist garbage.”

    Quite why anyone ‘progressive’ supports this back to the land farce is beyond me, I know a few, makes me think that they don’t think and politics is merely an act of wearing badges and that’s all there is to being a ‘good person’ with ‘sound politics’.

  30. I do actually think voting Green might turn out quite well. Not because they’re not lunatics, but because realistically the best they can hope for is a couple of seats in a hung parliament, just enough to bargain for one or maybe two policies, and their flagship policy is the citizen’s income. If the biggest party could give them that and the legalisation of the sex trade and tell them to stuff the rest, result.

  31. ” I know a few, makes me think that they don’t think and politics is merely an act of wearing badges ”

    Basically this. Thing is I think us nerds, who post on blogs about political and economic affairs, vastly, vastly overestimate how interested most people are in such affairs. For the simple reason that these subjects are utterly, epically, fantastically tedious to yer average man/woman/tranny in the street.

  32. PF

    We have our laws, our property rights. We don’t need to offer benefits to.immigrants (at least non- EU immigrants).

    My question was why would we WANT ie desire to keep migrants out?

  33. “The England football, rugby and cricket teams would no longer play against countries where “normal, friendly, respectful or diplomatic relations are not possible.”

    Good. I look forward to FIFA and UEFA banning England. Maybe then we can get coverage of the Champions League that’s based on interesting matches, and not the same four English teams every fucking match day.

  34. “Under cultural reforms, the Greens will explore a “a tax on superstar performances” to support “local cultural enterprises”

    Technically, Mr. Cliff Richard is a local cultural enterprise.

  35. The Green Party is therefore committed to significantly reducing the prison population.

    Pedos for EVERYBODY!

    I don’t know about the UK, but here in the States, we’ve got a lot of non-violent drug “offenders” in our prisons. The War on Drugs truly is evil.

  36. “My question was why would we WANT ie desire to keep migrants out?”

    If you are not going to qualify what type of migrants – then in order that excessive numbers (millions?) of very poor migrants simply don’t end up sleeping on the streets (if we don’t provide any benefits at all), or are thereafter tempted to crime to pay for food?

    Anything in the west may be a lot better than where they might come from (or at least may appear that way).

    If some succeed in getting jobs, it will simply push wage levels for the indigenous poorest to unsustainable levels.

    And of course the reality is that we WILL pay benefits, one way or another (we are not going to let large numbers of people starve to death!).

    There are actually huge numbers of reasons I can think of, but that’ll do.

  37. Pushing wages down is good for consumers, just like importing cheaper goods does. This id done of course by forcing indigenous businesses out and putting indigenous workers out of jobs. But as we keep repeating.on this blog, we’re really in favour of the consumer and free trade achieves what’s best for the consumer. Yet here we are fighting the same process in the Labour market.

    Well I AM a free trader; no lip service.

    Oh and do immigrants really come to sit on our streets and beg or is that just something we tell ourselves to justify us not liking others?

  38. “Oh and do immigrants really come to sit on our streets and beg or is that just something we tell ourselves to justify us not liking others?”

    We’d very quickly find out if we put it to the test – ie simply told the world that the UK no longer had any border controls whatsoever! If you can somehow arrange transport, you’re done… No expensive illegal people smugglers, just get on a boat, plane or train? Hmmm…

    Some of you guys had this discussion re free movement of people versus free movement of goods months ago (and at length), and I must admit I found the counter arguements (Ian B and others – I can’t remember exactly who and can’t find it now) far more compelling on the day if I am completely honest?

  39. And it’s not just “begging”.

    As I said, we would end up paying benefits, one way or another, because we really are NOT cruel bastards who are simply going to let huge numbers of people starve to death… And of course, anyone looking to migrate here would know that.

  40. Oh and do immigrants really come to sit on our streets and beg or is that just something we tell ourselves to justify us not liking others?

    I suspect rather few do – compared to the numbers that come over to work in crap below-minimum wage jobs or having married cousin Bilal.

    But if you look (as I have a wont to do on the way in to work) at the weegie to furriner ratio on Glasgow streets, it is way under than 1:1 – possibly 1:3 or 1:4. Although, in the current crap weather, the feral alkie / druggie weegies seem to have rather better staying power than what my heartless racist shoulder monkey keeps telling me have to be Roma.

  41. Get rid of all benefits save for a short-term safety net. Sweat-shop the rest. This will incentivise the public to realise their potential. Open borders would not be a problem. More people to create cheap consumables. As Ironman says, free up the free market.

    The idea that England has an ‘identity’ other than a mash-up of settlers is bumbling rubbish.

  42. …on this blog, we’re really in favour of the consumer and free trade achieves what’s best for the consumer. Yet here we are fighting the same process in the Labour market.
    Fair point, but trading goods has different consequences from trading people. We might buy Korean fridges because they do what our previous British fridges did but more reliably and for less money. If enough do that, the British fridge manufacturers either up their game or go out of business. That’s all good.
    If we import into British high-trust culture people from low trust cultures then to the extent that they continue low trust behaviours our society is damaged and the more of them, the greater the damage. That’s all bad.

  43. “Sweat-shop the rest.”

    Luvvley…

    “Open borders would not be a problem. More people to create cheap consumables.”

    Or simply import the “finished” product?

    “The idea that England has an ‘identity’ other than a mash-up of settlers is bumbling rubbish.”

    WTF. No idea what you are smoking but of course it has an identity (although I accept that it would appear to be being deliberately and systematically dismantled).

    Even just the concept of nationality is a useful start point. Most of us do not primarily identify ourselves as “Earthians”. Yet.

  44. PF, I think Ultracrepidarian was taking the piss. Or he was trying to take the.piss out of me.

    Thank you everybody.for showing me that actually it is indeed a distrust of foreigners and their ways that Is behind your closed borders beliefs, pure and simple.

    So I think I would.like to.ask Bloke not in Spain and Bloke in Costa Rica and Bloke in France and Bloke in Italy and Bloke in Germany and Tim Worstall if they have any thoughts on open borders. In particular Bloke in Germany, if I recall you’re exactly Person white are you.

  45. Steve

    As per usual an excellent fisking of these clowns – the manifesto is truly a spine-chilling document in the full extent of its misanthropy. Hopefully this is the first salvo from the media (who seem to have been slow to realize the danger they pose) exposing them for the proto-fascists they are.

  46. It’s interesting to note Ironman’s consistently left-progressive approach to issues, in which there is no actual real interest in the benefit or welfare of the persons he purports to be protecting, but simply in attacking some enemy demographic class, be it men, or European natives. The whole approach is predicated on the condemnation of the target group (e.g. as “racists”). On the ongoing bunfight over teenage kicks, he’s so obsessed with middle aged men (and only men, note), he can’t even bring the girls (and only girls, note) he’s purporting to protect to mind in order to discuss them.

    Likewise, the thin veneer of economic justifications for uncontrolled migration is just covering for his real fascination- denouncing natives as racists.

    Thoroughly progressive. Could have a great career at the Fabian Society.

  47. “PF, I think Ultracrepidarian was taking the piss. Or he was trying to take the.piss out of me.”

    Bugger – I missed that one – you’re probably right, whoever it was aimed at..:)

    “Thank you everybody.for showing me that actually it is indeed a distrust of foreigners and their ways that Is behind your closed borders beliefs, pure and simple.”

    I have not got the first clue how anyone could conclude that from what I wrote above!?

  48. So.

    Let me get this straight.

    We have to limit our population while letting anyone who wants to come here, and while consuming less as a nation.

    Right?

  49. OK so the sweat-shops are a bit much, but I wasn’t taking the piss, Ironman. Free markets need free movement of labour.

    PF, foreign sweatshops for cheap imports = good, English sweatshops for cheap exports = bad? Or is it better that everyone sits about on their arses complaining they don’t get enough benefits?

    As for an English identity – lazy, sneering, sarcastic xenophobes, not understanding the irony from our own history.

    The more migrants the better.

  50. Free markets need free movement of labour.

    Here we see a classic error- equating “people” with “labour”.

    As for an English identity – lazy, sneering, sarcastic xenophobes, not understanding the irony from our own history.

    The more migrants the better.

    Again, the real motivation revealed as a desire to attack the natives on a moralist basis.

  51. “foreign sweatshops for cheap imports = good, English sweatshops for cheap exports = bad?”

    I wasn’t advocating sweat shops, whatever the direction of travel, modern factories perhaps.

    You are in any case being disingenuous, as the issue is clearly about numbers. If you have open borders you have zero control. Millions (or more) can simply decide to up sticks and move; and we’re already one of the most densely populated countries.

    We are also a relatively wealthy country, hence, why would the poorer from around the world not want to come here, rationally, if there was no barrier at all?

    “As for an English identity – lazy, sneering, sarcastic xenophobes, not understanding the irony from our own history.”

    Ah, that’s progress. This time you do accept that such an identity exists! And that’s the real issue isn’t it. You one of these “loathe the English” types? Scottish maybe..:)

  52. IanB

    Oh fuck you’ve used your extra-sensory skills to see right into my heart and rumble my true game. And there’s me thinking you were just a creep.

    You are right about one thing though: I am more concerned emotionally about protecting little girls than I am about little boys. But then there’s men like you around isn’t there.

  53. “Or is it better that everyone sits about on their arses complaining they don’t get enough benefits?”

    I’m completely with you on that one; it’s a problem. Controlled immigration (skilled) is the best solution to that, in my view, if I am being selfishly nationalistic about it.

  54. Don’t need ESP, Ironman, it’s written all over your face. The primary interest of Proggies is attacking demographics they consider morally transgressive, regardless of reality. It’s why you lot are incapable of reasoned, calm discussion.

    But then there’s men like you around isn’t there.

    According to reports in the press, there are quite a lot of female teachers having sex with teenage students (often male, sometimes female). Why don’t you care? Wrong demographic?

  55. Back on topic, it is worth observing that if I go to purchase consumer goods, I will find products from all over the world- Europe, the Americas, the Far East, etc, next to each other on the shelves. It is thus rather hard to argue that there is much need for labour migration, when the production can simply go where the people are. There is probably less benefit to be had from the movement of labour than at any time in history, when the products can whizz around on container ships for transport costs measured in pennies.

    It thus remains something of a mystery as to why- we are supposed to believe- Europe is constantly short of workers, especially as the migrants are generally low skilled and pretty close to a definition of commodity labour (rather than bringing unique and personal skills to the market).

  56. That article was my first real exposure to the full horror of what the Greens propose. I must confess to have mostly ignored them hitherto. It struck me as distincly Stalinist but without the murders & Gulag (initially).

    For lots of schadenfreude, I could almost wish they get in power just to see their faces when they realise just how impossible it will be to implement most of it. But I’m in the demographic (retired, reasonable pension, bit of capital) that would be robbed by the state & then ‘encouraged’ to visit the assisted suicide centre, built no doubt by the architect featured in the Monty Python sketch (rotating knives?).

  57. “As for an English identity – lazy, sneering, sarcastic xenophobes, not understanding the irony from our own history.”

    Actually there must have been an English identity otherwise we would not have built up the social solidarity to fight off the Dutch, the frogs, the hun, etc… and create a welfare state.

    (What’s the rude word for the Dutch? Dykes? Surely I’m mistaken.)

    Anyway, when all the sound and fury of this post is forgotten there will still be Paul Collier’s book Exodus, which examines the issues with more wisdom than we have.

  58. “My question was why would we WANT ie desire to keep migrants out?”

    I’ll have a go Ironman.

    a) I don’t want to in theory (I should add that I’m also a migrant, as I work mainly in the US).

    b) However, there are practicalities to consider.

    The first is numbers. 5 million next week would be a problem logistical problem. Zero would have disbenefits (too few young people, etc). So the answer must lie somewhere in between, and there is a very clear case for managing it properly, as New Labour signally did not.

    Further, immigrants don’t need to accept much about Britain (the locals don’t have to), but there are a very few deal-breakers. Some cultures are clearly more suitable than others (and, no, this would not be a simple European or white v Other split).

    The same is true of trade. There is a limit to the % of new business a firm can handle, however good it seems in theory.

  59. And on the free movement of people v goods:

    A big yes to German cars, but a big no to German people in any number. They can’t queue.

  60. So Much for Subtlety

    Ironman – “There are no arguments to make with you. You think we are better than others and it’s to do with us being White. You think that muslims – not just a very.small number.of them – want to destroy our culture.and our freedoms (though curiously you don’t place any store by the institutions that underpin hose freedoms). You are in short.a racist.”

    You have no arguments to make. You rely on distortions and lies. Don’t get me wrong. I do not dispute the “thick”, the “racist” or even the “twat”. It is just that I am right. That is the way the cookie crumbles and there ain’t much we can do about it. Except smear the walls I guess.

    Do I think it is because we’re White? That Western society is superior is flatly undeniable. We have had nigh on 300 years of this industrialisation lark and no one else – except the Japanese and their colonial subjects – can do it. They have all tried. They have all failed. So pretty much every single positive thing in the world is the work of White males.

    Where you need to lie is in the fact that I don’t ascribe that to being White. There is something about White northern European cultures that Black English-speaking cultures do not have. Nor White non-northern European cultures. It may be race. It might not. But you cannot deny it is there – and hence the wall smearing.

    And yes, a significant percentage of the world’s Muslims, even Britain’s Muslims, hate us and want to destroy British society. That too is an observed fact and ain’t going to go away because you like to throw sh!t around.

    “You also.make.argument based upon extremes – Isreal being a country existing under the most extreme pressures and challenges – and try to draw universal conclusions. So you go ahead and make your ‘arguments’ you thick racist twat.”

    I didn’t draw a single conclusion from Israel’s example. I simply pointed out that you would call them racists for not accepting their extinction. And racists they are when it comes to immigration. But if Israel is too extreme, how about the Pequots? Let’s ask them what they think about unlimited immigration. Or the Australian Aboriginees? Or the Moriori? Or the indigenous Fijians for that matter.

    People hate us. Our future is to live in ever smaller ghettos interspersed with pogroms from the failed societies outside the walls. Because people like you would not defend our right to live in our ancestral land in our own way – and in safety. Smear the walls all you like. The world ain’t getting any safer.

  61. So Much for Subtlety

    Ted S. – “I don’t know about the UK, but here in the States, we’ve got a lot of non-violent drug “offenders” in our prisons. The War on Drugs truly is evil.”

    No you don’t actually. It is next to impossible to get a prison term for a non-violent drug offense in the US. At least if by that you mean possession of some marijuana. If, on the other hand, you mean a violent gang banger whom the police could not charge with murder because all the witnesses were killed, but did get on Federal trafficking charges, then you may have a point:

    According to the Justice Department, 5.3% of drug offenders in federal prisons are serving time for possession; 91.4% are serving time for trafficking offenses; and 3.3% are in for “other.”

    By this logic Al Capone was a non-violent offender. But most people think locking up drug gangs a positive social good.

  62. So Much for Subtlety

    Ironman – “Thank you everybody.for showing me that actually it is indeed a distrust of foreigners and their ways that Is behind your closed borders beliefs, pure and simple.”

    And why would you think that was a bad thing? Foreigners have been gang raping British girls up and down the country. Because they do not see Kaffir girls as being in the same community or deserving of the same respect as their own girls. Who would have guessed that foreigners do not see British people as their kin? Amazing.

    Britain is a unique and now highly threatened society. In the same way that, for instance, the Northern Spotted Owl is unique and highly threatened. I happen to like the other species of Spotted Owl that are encroaching on the NSO’s territory. But I would still like to see the NDO survive.

  63. The question of why European culture is the way it is doesn’t really matter. The point is that culture runs deep and is not superficial. Small numbers of incomers can adapt to a native culture. Large numbers will not.

    The example I used to use when I bothered spending a lot of time arguing with American “liberals” went something like this: Imagine a small town with liberal values. It elects liberal councillors. It is gay friendly. Nobody minds gays kissing in the street, or women sunbathing topless. The council implements green and progressive policies. Everyone is happy.

    Then a large number of fundamentalist Christians start arriving for some reason. They object to gays, they tut at women, they complain about green policies. They start building lots of churches. They breed much faster than the natives. As their numbers increase they move from tutting and churchgoing to protesting outside the gay bars, and being hostile on the street. Soon, they have the numbers to get voted onto council positions, and start implementing local laws imposing their values on everyone else. The area becomes hostile. Gays move out. Women feel pressurised to dress conservatively. The local schools start teaching abstinence only and family values, and introduce compulsory religious education. They end the council’s environmental policies.

    Your liberal town is no longer a liberal town. It has changed, irrevocably. It is not racist or xenophobic to not want this to happen; and it simply reflects that culture is ultimately a function of demographics, and so is democracy. And this is what those who scream “racist” at the slightest opportunity need to address.

  64. So Much for Subtlety

    Ironman – “You think that muslims – not just a very.small number.of them – want to destroy our culture.and our freedoms (though curiously you don’t place any store by the institutions that underpin hose freedoms). You are in short.a racist.”

    And here is today’s example of a Vibrant young thing who has been given every advantage that British society can offer:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2917100/The-kuffar-went-lands-killed-people-raped-pillaged-Video-rant-trainee-lawyer-firm-blaming-non-Muslims-Paris-terror-attacks.html

    A trainee lawyer at one of the world’s biggest law firms has posted a rant claiming the Paris terror attacks may not have happened if the West had not ‘killed our people and pillaged our resources’.

    Aysh Chaudhry, 22, from magic circle law firm Clifford Chance, criticised Muslims for allowing their minds to be ‘colonised’ and claimed Islam was ‘superior’ to Western ideology.

    In a 21-minute YouTube video posted two days after the kosher supermarket massacre, the lawyer said freedom of speech should not be put on a pedestal ‘as though it is some godsend’.

    Referring to non-Muslims insultingly as ‘kuffar’, he addressed the Paris terrorist atrocities, which left 17 people dead, and said that any Muslims who apologised were offering a ‘weak’ response.
    ….
    It is understood the trainee started at Clifford Chance six months ago and earns £40,500 per year.
    ….
    Before working at Clifford Chance, he interned at Slaughter & May, White & Case, Freshfields, and BLP.

    —-

    So just for the record – refusing to allow as many people who think like this into Britain as could possibly want to come is racist, right?

    Yeah. Like this is going to end well.

  65. So Much for Subtlety

    Ian B – “The question of why European culture is the way it is doesn’t really matter. The point is that culture runs deep and is not superficial. Small numbers of incomers can adapt to a native culture. Large numbers will not.”

    Actually it does. If what we think of as normal behaviour is not linked to being White, then immigration does not matter much. I would regret seeing the extinction of Red haired Celtic girls, but that’s about it.

    However it does look like whatever White Northern Europeans do is strongly associated with being White. We can’t teach it. They can’t adopt it. Black America is very similar to White America culturally – yes, I know, they try hard to make it look like they aren’t, but they are. However Black America is utterly dysfunctional. Afro-Caribbeans are largely British by culture. But they don’t have what makes British society so successful – and they have not adopted it since coming to the UK.

    Even Jewish Americans – couldn’t hope for a better or more welcoming country. They have done spectacularly well. Jewish Americans increasingly fill every job of importance – displacing the old WASP elite. Still not assimilating. Still automatically hostile to White America.

    Britain is importing its future ruling class. It will be not be pleasant. The only acceptable level of immigration is zero or lower.

  66. SMFS & IanB

    Once again guys, a big thank you from me. I really couldn’t do it without you.

    Jack C

    I actually agree with you (assuming the Germans comment was light-hearted). Absolutist positions aren’t the way to go. However, when dealing with the clowns above it can be the only way.

    Anyway, goodnight.

  67. SMFS-

    I just meant that deep culture or something innate is largely irrelevant to the current situation since if either is operating, the outcome will be much the same, though I take your point.

  68. “Richer regions do not have the right to use migration controls to protect their privileges from others in the long term,”
    ———-

    OK, so that means the immigrants and refugees will all be routed into the poshest, most affluent boroughs in the UK then doesn’t it? Forget Middlesborough and Oldham, send them all to Hampstead.

  69. Ironman, when you first came to this blog you were reasonable, intelligent and lighthearted.

    For some reason, you have become very angry, you can’t seem to walk past a stick without picking it up by the wrong end, and you’re rarely able to present cogent arguments. Lots of your recent posts aren’t even properly punctuated – what’s with all the random full stops in the middle of sentences?

    (Yes, yes, I appreciate that applies to most of us at various times, but with you it’s pretty much all the time.)

    Unless you’re a different Ironman from the original, your presence here seems to have become an extended battle with yourself, and with the truth – as though by writing stuff down enough times you will start to believe it, or, better still, it will come true.

    I think you must be under a lot of pressure at work, or at home, or you are drinking too much, or something.

  70. Drinking too much? Well this thread could take me there to be honest.

    No, sorry – and by all means add yourself to the list of those who don’t like me – but I can’t be lighthearted about anyone wanting to re-run the arguments advanced by the PIE 40 years ago or those who believe in some form of racial or religious purity.

    So no, not backing off.

  71. If you really want thoughts on the Green manifesto, how about “what a disaster the the Tories”. Just when they were pricing up Labour votes going to the greens along comes Caroline Lucas with a platform so completely mad that even Richard Murphy couldn’t follow her.

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