Last night, Mr Farage told Channel 4 News: “There is a very strong argument that says that what happened in Paris is a result – and we’ve seen it in London too – is a result I’m afraid of now having a fifth column living within these countries.
“We’ve got people living in these countries, holding our passports, who hate us.
“Luckily their numbers are very, very small but it does make one question the whole really gross attempt at encouraged division within society that we have had in the past few decades in the name of multiculturalism.”
Because, you know, the murder of 12 people just must not become a political subject.
Tessa Jowell, the Labour MP, tweeted that she found Mr Farage’s intervention “sickening”.
Pissing off Tessa is a useful indication that you’re doing something right.
Speaking the truth seems so last century…
Any politician who does not robustly defend:
Freedom of speech
Freedom of conscience
Equality before the law
should be removed from office and become our social attache in Somalia or Afghanistan.
Tim
I spotted this elsewhere…
Farage
“We’ve got people living in these countries, holding our passports, who hate us.
“Luckily their numbers are very, very small”
Nick Clegg in response “To immediately… imply that many, many British Muslims who I know feel fervently British but also are very proud of their Muslim faith are somehow part of the problem”
Nigel says “very very small”, Nick accuses him of saying “many many”
Thank goodness you’re not playing politics Nick
…..and any bloody politician that doesn’t know Islam, including “moderate” Islam is against all three of the keystones of modern democracy suffers from such massive wilful cognitive dissonance they should be sent for reeducation, in a vacant ex Christian village in the ME.
> “Because, you know, the murder of 12 people just must not become a political subject.”
Just as the rape of 1400 schoolgirls must not become a political subject.
Next chance I get I’ll tell them that the NHS must not become a political subject.
Poor old Neville Chamberlain must be rolling in his grave.
“Next chance I get I’ll tell them that the NHS must not become a political subject”
Many moons ago when I watched QT you could guarantee that either the BBC lefty luvvie on the panel or someone in the audience would spout the phrase “time to take politics out of the NHS” or something similar.
This would be followed by the trained seals, sorry balanced audience, clapping and cheering.
This is how the left gets their way, shouting down debate whenerver they can’t win the argument. It’s the same with immigration and multiculturalism, but on these subjects they yell racist or fascist, is if that is the clinching argument in any debate.
Stating the bleeding obvious is fast becoming a crime in this country.
As an aside we don’t have multicultarism in this country, we have multi mono-cultures.
…and France has longstanding policies AGAINST multiculturalism. They promote Frenchness as the only culture. What Farage means is “send the blackies home”.
I presume that those who want politics out of the NHS are the same people who support taking politics out of the NHS by subcontracting elements of delivery and operational management to private and 3rd sector providers?
What?
I am islamophobe, but…
French mosques are quite tightly controlled. (You need an approved qualification to be an Imam, for instance. In the UK, anything goes.)
These brothers, and the other shooters, were not radicalised in mosques, but in prison.
The French state should take a long look in the mirror and ask itself why it can’t control the very institution it has the most control over.
“Take the politics out of [x]” is a progressivist code for handing the management of [x] to some kind of committee or quango, which is supposedly “independent”, but is actually stuffed with activist progressivist types who can operate the thing to their own desires regardless of the government in power. Democracy gets in the way of “delivering outcomes”.
As to the Muzzies well, yes. Regardless of the proportions involved, Europe would be a happier and safer place had they not come here in anything like the numbers that they have. There was never any need for a mass immigration policy, and we have paid a price for its implementation. Islam simply is not a religion that a culture based on another religious basis, including secularism, benefits from the growth of.
The irony is that CH is quite a long way to the right of Farage on this issue, which I don’t think the lefties have realised.
What no-one seems to be mentioning in all this ‘Je Suis Charlie’ bullshit is that (while it goes without saying that no-one deserves to be censored, let alone killed, for exercising their right to be offensive) the cartoons in question are obviously extremely racist.
“the cartoons in question are obviously extremely racist”: so what?
Dearieme>
So it’s pretty amusing to see the Grauniad types posting ‘I am Charlie’ all over the place. It says a lot about their knowledge of history that none of them seem to have noticed that the cartoons are deliberately drawn in the style of Der Sturmer’s racist caricatures.
I support CH’s right to free expression, of course, but I sure as fuck don’t support their use of it.
Generally, if the powerful condemn X, it is the job of the opponents of the powerful to do X, so the more the State bangs on about “racism”, ironically the more it becomes the job of critics to be “racist”. Maybe we ought to bring back the Black And White Minstrels.
Mind you if we did, nowadays it would have to be a competition between third rate celebrities, doing a minstrelsy routine with a professional minstrel partner each week and being eliminated one by one, judged by a panel of third rate judges (one old one, one gay one, one totty, one make weight) and every time somebody is eliminated, the catchphrase would be, “Keith Chegwin’s going back to the plantation!” and so on.
How dare that bastard Farage draw any useful conclusions from events!!! Crucify him!
Dave
I guess you mean the one of a stock Jew pushing Mohammed in a wheelchair. I think that’s a French joke about stereotyping.
And anyway, as dearieme says, so fucking what?
“These brothers, and the other shooters, were not radicalised in mosques, but in prison.
The French state should take a long look in the mirror and ask itself why it can’t control the very institution it has the most control over.”
Problem being BiF, if you want to learn about any form of crime you’d do a lot worse than sorting yourself a spell in chokey. There you’re going to fund all the people specialise in your preferred subject. Not the best in their field, of course. They got caught. . But those who can do, do. Those who can’t, teach.
Ian>
“Generally, if the powerful condemn X, it is the job of the opponents of the powerful to do X”
Are you trying to tell us you’re a murderer? Or did you only mean when your views are out of step with the mainstream?
JeremyT>
No, I mean all of them. CH is somewhere on the border between hard right and far right in its politics.
And as I already said, so it’s funny to see the Graun types falling over themselves to support the work of a bunch of racist nutjobs.
Murder is against the common law, a routine part of every social, community and legal code, etc. Thou shalt not kill. You don’t need a government to tell you that.
If there were a Thou Shalt Not Say Anything That Might Possibly Offend A Philistine, Ammonite Or Hittite, that would be a valid target for objection. Talking of which, the ancient Jews wouldn’t have stood for this kind of bullshit from Philistines, Ammonites or Hittites anyway. It would have been full-bore smiting long ago. Which is of course the natural human response to identifiable agressors.
“Murder is against the common law, a routine part of every social, community and legal code, etc. Thou shalt not kill. You don’t need a government to tell you that.”
Yes, and nor do you need a government to tell you not to discriminate against other people on the basis of things which are completely irrelevant in that context.
“Which is of course the natural human response to identifiable agressors.”
Natural human response? As in, acting like cavemen? The natural human response to finding food piled up on shelves in a giant artificial cave is to eat it, not to pile it into a basket, take it to the checkout, and pay for it. These days we live in societies where we don’t indulge our ‘natural’ urges at the drop of a hat, but rather stop and think instead of reacting emotionally.
Dave,
You appear to be using “right-wing” in the sense of “wrong and loathsome with it”.
CH was actually a left-wing publication.
Mocking religion and religious authority is not necessarily, or even usually, right-wing.
Nice try though.
Dave:No that would be an instinctual response as something that a dog might do–start eating the food off the shelves. Natural reaction for a human being involves thought which–believe it or not– is our human metier.
You equate thought with the hateful mangina/ anti-white conditioning you seem to have undergone. Wrongo.
Dave-
Can you see the error you’ve made here? Here’s a clue: Mankind has existed for at least 100,000 years. Even primitive civilisation is less than 10,000 years old. Modernity is less than 300 years old. Concern about discrimination is less than 50 years old.
So, what sort of humans would we be discussing when we’re talking about “natural”? It’s “cavemen”, isn’t it? Everything else is a veneer on top of that.
Jack>
No, I was using it in the sense of being only a step or two removed from neo-Nazis. CH is not left wing in the slightest. Hell, this week’s cover story was a puff piece for a politician they support who makes Farage look like a wishy-washy liberal.
Mr Ecks>
If we’re throwing childish insults at each other, you’re a poopypants.
I really can’t see how anyone thinks the staff at CH are anything but left wing: wasn’t the editor a communist? I also can’t see how they can be racists when they seem to have insulted every possible creed and colour at one time or another.
So to me their politics would probably be close to abhorrent. And yet I defend absolutely their right to freedom of speech and expression. And so do other ‘right-wing’ blogs such as Tim here or Samizdata. It’s the self-identified ‘liberals’ at places like the Independent and Guardian who are still refusing to re-publish the Mohammed cartoons, despite repeatedly banging on about how much they defend liberty.
It’s almost as if one could draw some obvious conclusions from all this.
According to my Dad, who is knowledgeable on such matters, Britain had this problem with Catholics in the 17th Century and dealt with it by reducing Catholics to the status of second-class citizens for a 100 years (e.g. excluded from politics, the law and the military, and not allowed to ride horses!), at the end of which the perceived threat had disappeared.
So in a way we have been here before. And our host gets his horse repossessed.
Yes, but one thing you can say for Catholics: they do have natural rhythm.
Maybe we ought to bring back the Black And White Minstrels.
I can do a reasonable job of singing Oh, dem Golden Slippers along with the guitar. For various values of “reasonable”. I’m on Youtube somewhere, and I’m open to bookings.
Dave,
The editor aligned with the communists.
Btw, Stalin and Castro would also make Farage look like a wishy-washy liberal.
I assume you’re using “left-wing” in the sense of “absolutely smashing in every way”.
Nice try though.
Not insult Dave–I am sorry for your plight–trapped in the mental hell of leftism, your every move a desperate battle to avoid whiteprivileged, falseconciousnessed microagression against minorities everywhere.
“I also can’t see how they can be racists when they seem to have insulted every possible creed and colour at one time or another.”
Did they insult rich white media lefties at all?
BNIS
We know prisons are schools of crime, and probably always have been. What is different here is the shift in moralising.
At entry to prison the prisoner is stripped of identity and any personal belongings. He becomes a number. To reassert identity, what better than to claim a special diet. And the muslims even accept nonces in the prison umma.
The convert asserts identity and gains the protection of a clan. The clan leader, having read the shit.book, chooses the verses that confirm the crim in his denial. Strike at the necks of the infidel etc. So it was alright all along to rob that shopkeeper because he was looking at you funny and was not a muslim.
Result is crim leaves prison with a sense of entitlement, identity and a mission.
I’m not an expert on French jails,but I suggest the least they could do would be to:
1. At the first sign of demand for special diet, wake them up at 5 a.m. for compulsory morning prayers.
2. Get some more proper almoners for the real muslims, there’s a notorious shortage.
Tessa Jowell condemns Farage ? Well yes, I suppose she would. Tessa Jowell, long-time supporter of PIE – that P is for Paedophile. One thing Nigel has never been accused of.
Nearest thing was from Boris – UKIP members likely to have sex with bikes.
The left use ‘right wing’ to mean ‘anything I don’t like’, or ‘anything the left did that we’re now embarrassed by’. I’ve met lefties in the UK who, decades ago, would have had posters of Stalin on their bedroom wall, claiming now that he was ‘right wing’.
Nazis, of course, are far left. The ‘National Socialist’ part should be a bit of a giveaway, if the bloated State and intrusive central planning parts aren’t. The modern left only really hate them because they were Nationalists.
Was he radicalised in prison? Wasn’t he sent to prison in the first place because he organised the sending of jihadist nutjobs to Iraq? Suggests a certain amount of radicalisation already.
Looks like the error was only sending him to chokey for 18 months. So all they did really was stop his terrorism for 18 months. These people aren’t going to come out of prison saying “you know what? You were right. I have reformed and won’t do that shit anymore”. Looks like they’ll have to lock them up for a long, long time.
Edward M. Grant
Absolutely spot on – I’ve lost count of the number of lunatics (and that’s as accurate a term as I can find) prattling on about how the USSR and even North Korea are ‘extreme right wing’ – I think it might be as Interested or even the peerless SMFS has pointed out, the need to control the narrative – it’s pure channelling of Goebbels – if the lie is told often enough…..
Rob
I think at least one brother had done time before they started their jihadi travel agency. The other shooters had been banged up originally for petty crimes (albeit with a weapon) of simple theft.
This Theodore Dalrymple article, written in 2002(!) is worth a read.
(h/t Kim du Toit over at Samizdata)
Tim Newman,
“According to my Dad, who is knowledgeable on such matters, Britain had this problem with Catholics in the 17th Century and dealt with it by reducing Catholics to the status of second-class citizens for a 100 years (e.g. excluded from politics, the law and the military, and not allowed to ride horses!), at the end of which the perceived threat had disappeared.”
And I’d imagine what happens is that a lot of Catholics decided to being protestant, just to no longer be 2nd class citizens.
But the real answer is be as liberal as possible, and to shift the incentives away from multiculturalism and fundamentalist religion, and towards integration and more relaxed religion. It’s not really Islam – it’s that the societies of other religions started ignoring various things in their texts (like in the Bible, stoning to death the daughters of priests that went on the game).
So, let’s say that we privatised all the swimming pools. A man who wants his wife to swim separately from men is going to have to pay more for it, as the pool will be less busy for the private operator. Or maybe he’ll decide he’d rather save money and let her swim with the men.
Or we stop throwing “islamophobe” at businesses that choose to not allow burqa wearers into their business (for the same reason they forbid people wearing motorcycle helmets). Maybe coming home with empty bags might switch people towards not wearing ones.
And if we switch from means-tested benefits to a basic, poor citizen’s income. People then go to work (as CI doesn’t stop people earning an income), form friendships with people outside their circle, maybe decide to do mix more with them, that they aren’t all kuffirs.
Scrap all tax breaks for religions, and all government programmes related to “community leaders” in religion. Star Trek fans love going to Star Trek conventions more than churches, why shouldn’t they get the same breaks? Might make people think there’s better things to do with their money than going to church.
And legalise prostitution. Maybe these guys will get their oats rather than seeking their jollies in the after life.
the cartoons in question are obviously extremely racist.
Islam is a race?
One can raise the question of whether Catholics were a problem for England per se, or whether revolutionary Protestants suppressed them as a counter-counter-revolutionary tactic. Remember, Catholicism was the incumbent religion until the (radical) Protestants came along and displaced it.
Islam has a tendency, when it takes power, to reduce troublesome elements of the conquered population by reducing them to second class citizen status too. An interesting question for Europeans is whether our descendants are going to find themselves living through that kind of scenario.
.
It is legal.
Ian B – you’re right, but I’m meaning like properly so….
Returning to the subject in hand.
There’s something interesting I’ve been watching in the media, both sides of the channel. Almost before the echoes of the bullets had died away, the media have been obsessing what the “right wing reaction would be”.”How much this would add fuel the extreme right” Yadda, yadda, yadda. Politicians of all the usual suspects have sound-bited their way through the usual fed media questions, to the same end.
At last, with little urgency, the extreme right in the shape of Nigel & Marine (neither of whom is in the slightest way “right” of any extremity whatsoever. With a far left, socialist platform, Marine’d have difficulty being to right of Ken Livingston in his GLC pomp) made some totally uncontroversial statements. At which point the media have gone into a flurry of “extreme right takes advantage of the crisis” with supporting interviews with the usual suspects.
And Nige & Marine are accused of “playing politics at this tragic time”
Really?
Them?
If only people had listened and not pilloried and condemned:
“We must be mad, literally mad, as a nation to be permitting the annual inflow of some 50,000 dependants, who are for the most part the material of the future growth of the immigrant descended population. It is like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre. So insane are we that we actually permit unmarried persons to immigrate for the purpose of founding a family with spouses and fiancées whom they have never seen.”
Ted S. – “Islam is a race?”
He means the cartoons make him feel uncomfortable by highlighting the gap between what he would like to be true and what he really secretly knows but can’t admit is true.
Ian B – “An interesting question for Europeans is whether our descendants are going to find themselves living through that kind of scenario.”
Europeans, not just British people, in some parts of every Western European country are already living through a watered down version of this. We are already paying protection money to groups like the MCB.
bloke (not) in spain – “Almost before the echoes of the bullets had died away, the media have been obsessing what the “right wing reaction would be”.”
That is to say, the European population is divided into two groups – those that hate and fear murderers and the people who incite murder and those that hate and fear their own people, especially if they are White males. Every time they come out and talk of their fears of a backlash, what they mean is that they think we have all just come from starring as extras in Deliverance
DocBud – “If only people had listened and not pilloried and condemned:”
No sh!t. It wasn’t as if they weren’t warned. But the fetid little treasonous surrender monkeys who run our country were either determined to provide their mates with cheap nannies, or were determined to displace the indigenous population and replace them with something more to their liking. Treason from Left and Right. Well the French are having their noses rubbed into diversity now. We will again, no doubt, some time soon.
And in the meantime Farage gets pilloried, and no doubt will soon be prosecuted, for stating the obvious. As, to be honest although it is not a nice thing to admit, was Nick Griffin.
With 17 innocent citizens dead, Francois Hollande still feels obliged to deny the truth:
“Those who committed these acts, these fanatics, have nothing to do with the Muslim faith.”
They have everything to do with the barbaric, Medieval cult that is Islam. Civilisation is doomed until the whole basis of Islam is free to be discussed and debated in the open without fear of having your collar felt or being accused of being a racist. Many non-Muslims are under the impression that Mohammed was some kind of Arabic Jesus like figure instead of the murdering, robbing, slave owning vile shit that he really was.
I’ve just cancelled my subscription to The Australian. I was using facts straight out of the Koran and the Hadith to indicate who Mohammed was and the moderators kept deleting the comments. Their gaff, their rules, but what they apparently believe is that the truth about Mohammed must be hidden from their readers, presumably because it will make people realise that Islam is not a ‘great religion’ but a cult along the lines of those similarly dreamed up by Jim Jones and David Koresh.
DocBud – “I’ve just cancelled my subscription to The Australian. I was using facts straight out of the Koran and the Hadith to indicate who Mohammed was and the moderators kept deleting the comments.”
And this from a supposedly Right Wing Murdoch newspaper!
“Yes, and nor do you need a government to tell you not to discriminate against other people on the basis of things which are completely irrelevant in that context.”
Discrimination is an entirely personal matter because personal preferences (and their relative relevance) are personal. Everyone discriminates, including you.
“That is to say, the European population is divided into two groups – those that hate and fear murderers and the people who incite murder and those that hate and fear their own people, especially if they are White males. Every time they come out and talk of their fears of a backlash, what they mean is that they think we have all just come from starring as extras in Deliverance”
I disagree. There is no clear distinction because even those in the first group play by the rules of the second. If you make the rules you tend to win the game.
The West no longer has the social and political systems required to respond to the grave threat posed by Islam. We have instituted such knee jerk self loathing that it is now impossible for natural leaders to arise in our societies and for us to put our own interests first.
What was (I suppose) intended to inoculate our culture against dangerous extremism from within has rendered us unable to defend ourselves against threats from outside. We will disappear rather quickly as a result. Looking back after it has happened the disappearance of European people and their Western culture will seem very fast.
It is nowadays literally impossible for European people to conceive of deporting muslims until they are gone from our territory. Unfortunately this is what needs to happen right now in order to prevent our destruction at the hands of these barbarians.
tomsmith – “It is nowadays literally impossible for European people to conceive of deporting muslims until they are gone from our territory. Unfortunately this is what needs to happen right now in order to prevent our destruction at the hands of these barbarians.”
I suggest we refer to our Muslim brethren as “Settlers” or even better “Zionist Settlers” and “Pied Blanc” from now on.
After all, they can hardly complain given they have justified the ethnic cleansing of those communities that pre-dated Muslim Arabs in the Middle East. Like Algeria’s Jews. Or Egypt’s Greeks.
Most sensible comment about immigrant integration I’ve seen in a long time: MUSLIMS WHO DON’T LIKE FREE SPEECH CAN “FUCK OFF”: ROTTERDAM MAYOR
(And for any multiculti’s that might be reading, note that the mayor of Rotterdam is himself a Muslim.)