Hmm

Social workers and police who ignored evidence of violent sexual abuse of young girls in Oxford were products of a “culture” of turning a blind eye to children being “sexualised at an ever younger age”, an official inquiry has warned.

A Serious Case Review into grooming of girls as young as 11 in the city found they had suffered an “indescribably awful” ordeal under the noses of officials who showed a “worrying lack of curiosity”.

It estimates that at least 370 girls are likely to have been targeted for child sexual exploitation in Oxford alone over the last 16 years – although it acknowledges the figure could be conservative and insists the pattern is likely to be replicated in cities across the country.

Obviously, if it’s OK that young girls have sex, you know, freedom and liberty maaan, then it’s a little more difficult to control who they have sex with, isn’t it?

40 thoughts on “Hmm”

  1. So Much for Subtlety

    Obviously, if it’s OK that young girls have sex, you know, freedom and liberty maaan, then it’s a little more difficult to control who they have sex with, isn’t it?

    Well yes but that is not the issue. 10 year olds do not exercise meaningful consent. They should not be having sex. But if the social workers are happy for them to do so, they also need to make sure they are not being forced to do so by middle aged predators.

    Let’s not shift the blame here. The problem is not 10 year olds having sex. It is gangs preying on White children. The two acts don’t even look superficially similar.

  2. A Serious Case Review into grooming of girls as young as 11 in the city found they had suffered an “indescribably awful” ordeal under the noses of officials who showed a “worrying lack of curiosity

    I do wish journos and sub-editors were more aware of the use of inappropriate metaphors. “…under the noses of officials…?” Crikey.

  3. The chance of getting any kind of calm, rational analysis of any of this at this point in history is precisely zero. Everyone is just zealously pursuing some particular narrative that supports their own assumptions. Historians are going to have a lot of fun with this in the future.

  4. So Much for Subtlety

    I love the Guardian’s obsession with minimising the wrong doing of the Muslim community and so they continue to insist White people do this too – even if it means smearing Brittan and reporting every pathetic little rumour that goes nowhere, while trying to obscure the actual torture and abuse of White girls by Asian men.

  5. So Much for Subtlety

    Borders exist for a reason. They are there to keep predators out and keep the people within safe. But no, the Tories wanted cheap labour for their business friends and the Labour Party wanted to rub our noses in the diversity.

    Just what did they think was going to happen when they let millions of people like this into Britain:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/11443462/Delhi-bus-rapist-blames-his-victim-in-prison-interview.html

    Describing the killing as an “accident”, he said: “When being raped, she shouldn’t fight back. She should just be silent and allow the rape. Then they’d have dropped her off after ‘doing her’, and only hit the boy.”
    ….
    “You can’t clap with one hand – it takes two hands,” he says in the interview. “A decent girl won’t roam around at 9 o’clock at night. A girl is far more responsible for rape than a boy. Boy and girl are not equal. Housework and housekeeping is for girls, not roaming in discos and bars at night doing wrong things, wearing wrong clothes. About 20 per cent of girls are good.”
    ….
    The lawyers who defended the gang in court express similarly extreme views about women who venture out at night. In a previous televised interview, lawyer AP Singh said: “If my daughter or sister engaged in pre-marital activities and disgraced herself and allowed herself to lose face and character by doing such things, I would most certainly take this sort of sister or daughter to my farmhouse, and in front of my entire family, I would put petrol on her and set her alight.”

    —-

    Well some of the girls of Rochdale have had their noses rubbed in the diversity too. And we will do nothing. Just as we did nothing last time. Just as we will do nothing next time.

  6. So Much for Subtlety

    Ian B – “The chance of getting any kind of calm, rational analysis of any of this at this point in history is precisely zero. Everyone is just zealously pursuing some particular narrative that supports their own assumptions.”

    So …. the problem is not the rape and torture of 10 year olds, it is the people who are outraged by it? At least we can look forward to future historians recognising the injustice done to these British Scotsboro Boys, right?

    Is that a fair and accurate summary of your considered views here?

  7. Is that a fair and accurate summary of your considered views here?

    No it isn’t, but it does illustrate my point rather well.

    Just as a general point, always beware the quoting of the extreme statistic-

    “Earn up to £2000 per week at home!”

    “Up to 50Mb/s broadband!”

    “Men in England are up to 7 feet tall!”

    “…as young as 11…”

  8. @SMFS,

    “They” are not “millions of people like that”. Among the millions are, regrettably, some people like that.

    Fuck you you fucking racist cunt.

  9. At least part of the problem is the professionalisation of the police force. Thirty years ago police officers were working class, and if one of these girls turned up they’d see their own daughters in them. Today’s police officers are middle-class, so when these girls present themselves the officers just think “blooming’ chavs and their silly domestic spats”.

  10. So Much for Subtlety

    Bloke in Germany – ““They” are not “millions of people like that”. Among the millions are, regrettably, some people like that.”

    You really want to argue how popular those views are among Indians? You think that is going to prove me wrong? For those rapists to go to jail, they had to attack a middle class couple. This sort of thing has been going on for a long time in India. It became a national issue when it was a pair of university students.

    And yes, among all the immigrants to this country, it is not all, but it is not a small number either.

  11. So Much for Subtlety

    Ian B – “No it isn’t, but it does illustrate my point rather well.”

    Would you mind explain to us what you think future historians’ opinions of these men will be? Victims of racism? Another Satanic Witchhunt?

    “Just as a general point, always beware the quoting of the extreme statistic”

    How many towns does this have to happen in before you will agree it is reasonable to accept it is not an extreme statistic? Can we agree that this sort of grooming is very strongly associated with one particular ethnic group in the UK, or at least one particular minority culture, and it has been going on, carried out by unconnected gangs, in many locations across the UK?

  12. I think future historians will agree that that Britain went stark staring mad in this period.

    If people commit crimes, they should be tried and punished for the specific crimes they have committed. When somebody produces a report with a lurid synopsis, quoting extremes for the titillation of the tabloids, my sceptical hackles rise.

    1400 girls under 18 in Rotherham known to the social services had some sort of interaction with Asian men over a given time period. Many of them- according to the report- refused to agree that they were abuse victims despite great pressure from counsellors. In the popular narrative, that turns into 1400 victims of gang rape.

    The story of immigrant communities preying on native girls is a recurrent template. 100 years ago it was the Chinese, luring them into opium dens. This narrative appeals to those who are for whatever reason uncomfortable with immigrant communities.

    It’s easy to launch whole-heartedly into supporting a story that appeals to one’s own prejudices. But that doesn’t make it the right approach to take.

  13. And bear in mind that we live in a country, currently, where mainstream opinion is prepared to seriously believe that Jimmy Savile was gouging the eyeballs out of corpses to make into jewellery. Never has scepticism been more important.

  14. So Much for Subtlety

    Ian B – “I think future historians will agree that that Britain went stark staring mad in this period.”

    So do I. But for other reasons. Obviously.

    “If people commit crimes, they should be tried and punished for the specific crimes they have committed. When somebody produces a report with a lurid synopsis, quoting extremes for the titillation of the tabloids, my sceptical hackles rise.”

    I agree with the first part. But you can see why the second part would make an objective third party think of the Scotsboro boys. Are you saying you think they are innocent?

    “Many of them- according to the report- refused to agree that they were abuse victims despite great pressure from counsellors. In the popular narrative, that turns into 1400 victims of gang rape.”

    Many. An interesting word. Can you put a figure on that? 100 of them? 400 of them? 1000 of them perhaps? That still leaves 400 of them were did agree they were abuse victims. Notice that 10 year olds can think what they like – they don’t get to decide if they are victims or not. Oddly enough.

    “The story of immigrant communities preying on native girls is a recurrent template.”

    The story of Jews being the victims of pogroms is a recurrent template too. But again, this is you NOT arguing they are innocent victims of a Scotsboro-type fix, right?

    “It’s easy to launch whole-heartedly into supporting a story that appeals to one’s own prejudices. But that doesn’t make it the right approach to take.”

    I agree. But my prejudices have been changed by stories like these. Not the other way around.

    So what is your position on the guilt of these men?

    Ian B – “And bear in mind that we live in a country, currently, where mainstream opinion is prepared to seriously believe that Jimmy Savile was gouging the eyeballs out of corpses to make into jewellery. Never has scepticism been more important.”

    But the two are probably not unconnected. The Guardian needs to believe White males like Saville are the problem. As more and more evidence points to the fact that there are much worse problems, they *need* to believe that Saville was even worse. No one is speaking up for Saville. He has not had a trial. It is reasonable to be sceptical. On the other hand, everyone tried to stop these crimes coming to light and these men being punished. They threw insults and destroyed careers to cover it up. The men got trials. Can we agree that these allegations have been tested in a way the Saville allegations have not and never will be?

  15. bloke (not) in spain

    “Fuck you you fucking racist cunt.”

    To be fair to SMfS, you’ll often hear this or that nationality, race, culture being referred to as “hard working”, having “strong family values”, any positive aspects you like. Travel brochures describe so & so’s friendly helpful people. Anyone knows it’s not true. Whoever they are they have their bad eggs. But we’re happy to talk in generalities. As long as it’s good generalities, it’s not racist.
    These assholes come from a culture where this behaviour doesn’t seem to attract much censure. It does seem to be a cultural thing. So why is it wrong to say, if you import this culture you’ll import this behaviour along with it?

  16. So Much for Subtlety

    bloke (not) in spain – “But we’re happy to talk in generalities. As long as it’s good generalities, it’s not racist.”

    Not if it is good generalities about White people. Can’t do that. Can’t say that White men are hard working and law abiding. Even though, once they are married, they are.

    “So why is it wrong to say, if you import this culture you’ll import this behaviour along with it?”

    Especially when we have so obviously imported this behaviour along with this culture. But then criticising anyone else’s culture is also racist apparently.

  17. bloke (not) in spain

    One thing I will say about 1400 For every rape you need a raper. From what we’re being told, these are not single incidents but girls were being “groomed” for protracted “careers”. So you have to look at the figures in the other column. “Grooming” one girl for one “rapist” is better known as chatting up. There’s an implication of multiple blokes over a long period & the motive being profit. To make it worth while that’s going to require a lot of blokes.
    Cultural or not, I’ve severe doubts it’d be possible to source that many customers. If it is, there’s a lot of working girls missing out on a thriving market. They don’t tend to do that.

  18. Many. An interesting word. Can you put a figure on that?

    No, because the report itself does not. The report gives hardly any useful data at all. It simply lumps together every girl in Rotherham who it considers within its remit, then provides a few “example” cases; in other words as a source of information it is useless, presumably deliberately.

    That still leaves [for example] 400 of them were did agree they were abuse victims.

    Which isn’t very helpful either since agreeing to victimhood is a means of excusing one’s own behaviour and getting a dip from the compensation pot. No doubt, crimes were committed and perpetrators deserve to go to jail; but the waters are so muddy that the scale and nature of this thing is virtually impossible to divine, which is my point. Including the number of “ten year olds” that you are fascinated with, since most of the girls seem to be considerably older. 17 year olds are in the statistics, remember, if they had some kind of relationship with an Asian and were known to social services.

    There is a very simple explanation which is now considered politically incorrect by both the left and right as to why officials did not act, which is that many of these girls were what would have been, until recently, described as “wayward” or “delinquent” and voluntarily associating with these men sexually. Under feminism, it is verboten to ascribe agency to any woman- particularly young ones- in sexual matters. It is interesting how people of the notional “right” have come to agree with this so long as it fits with their other opinions.

    It is also worth noting the strange legal position that the age of criminal responsibility in England is ten. You have a mind if you commit a crime, but not if you choose to fuck someone. An 11 year old is responsible if he commits rape. Odd, isn’t it?

    And no, before Ironman turns up in his Matthew Hopkins outfit, I’m not advocating that ten year olds should have sex. I am however saying that a sixteen year old who fucks an Asian man is not qualitatively the same as a ten year old who is raped by one.

  19. bloke (not) in spain

    SMfS. You can’t be helped, can you?
    The “hard working Pole” is such an accepted meme, it’s hard to say Pole without the other two words. What are Poles? Blue?

  20. So Much for Subtlety

    bloke (not) in spain – “You can’t be helped, can you?”

    Alas, probably not.

    “The “hard working Pole” is such an accepted meme, it’s hard to say Pole without the other two words. What are Poles? Blue?”

    I have to say that I have never heard that. But no matter.

    When it comes to Poles, in general, I tend to think people are using the Poles as a stalking horse. When they say they don’t want any more Poles, what they mean is that they don’t want any more Bangladeshis but they know what Ironman and BiG would do to their careers so they don’t say that.

    Specifically, I think even here the Guardian’s hierarchy is preserved. It looks like praise for Poles, but actually it is criticism of White British people. Hard working compared to whom? The Chinese? The South Koreans? It is way to criticise the British population. And we can test this. One of the sadder bits of flotsam from the Napoleonic Wars was a community in Poles in Haiti. Not sure they are still there. But let me suggest you go over to CiF and say you were in Haiti the other day and, boy, did their Polish community work really hard. See if it lasts.

  21. SMFS: “Specifically, I think even here the Guardian’s hierarchy is preserved. It looks like praise for Poles, but actually it is criticism of White British people.”

    Spot on!

  22. IanB: “And bear in mind that we live in a country, currently, where mainstream opinion is prepared to seriously believe that Jimmy Savile was gouging the eyeballs out of corpses to make into jewellery.”

    Come, come, Ian! False eyeballs…

    Don’t make the man into some sort of monster! 😉

  23. IanB : The problem here is that the same crowd of leftist scum blowing smoke up the publics arse with Savile and the Old Men travesties is the same crowd who very much don’t want Rotherham to go public. Feminist scum–as much as they hate men–mostly confine their lying shite to white men. There seems to be some kind of scumbags agreement among leftist pricks not to tread on each others toes as far as their client groups go. Occasionally the deal breaks down -as in the femmi-trans war going on at the moment. But I place more credence on the Rotherham + capers. The culprits come from a culture where women are regarded as nothing. Also the femmis –who piss their knickers if a white man looks at a woman sideways, maintain silence on the activities of non-white males.

  24. So Much for Subtlety

    Mr Ecks – “Feminist scum–as much as they hate men–mostly confine their lying shite to white men.”

    Yeah. Notice the little line they sneaked in – children being “sexualised at an ever younger age”

    So it is Page Three Girls who are to blame ain’t it? I bet the Left will adopt Rotherham but only to try to get them banned.

  25. Ecks: What we’ve got here is both sides playing the Man The Paedo narrative. They’re just arguing about whether it’s the White Man or the Brown Man.

  26. By the way, bit off topic but I mused this morning on our current priorities. A footballer faces an allegation- not even charged- that he may have had sex with somebody marginally under the age of consent and his name is splashed across every newspaper and he is already decided to be a monster.

    Meanwhile, two men are arrested for the cold blooded murder of a 15 year old boy, and we don’t even get told their names.

  27. So Much for Subtlety

    Ian B – “What we’ve got here is both sides playing the Man The Paedo narrative. They’re just arguing about whether it’s the White Man or the Brown Man.”

    No. What we have here is an unknown but reasonably large number of young girls who were brutalised, tortured, burnt, and sexually abused. Not just in one two but in several. Which points to this not being isolated incidents involving isolated individuals, but a deep systemic problem.

    All the while, the State’s functionaries did everything they could to prevent us from knowing and the perpetrators being punished. To the point of jailing Nick Griffin for saying so in a pub.

    And just to clarify, you are *NOT* asserting this is a fantasy like the Satanic Abuse panic, right?

  28. IanB: “Meanwhile, two men are arrested for the cold blooded murder of a 15 year old boy, and we don’t even get told their names.”

    Men..? One of them’s 18. His brief will have him described as ‘a child’ or ‘a youth’ before the Evening Standard 2nd edition is out.

  29. “What we’ve got here is both sides playing the Man The Paedo narrative. They’re just arguing about whether it’s the White Man or the Brown Man.”

    I don’t know that is entirely true. The Savile horseshit–which long ago jumped the shark in terms of numbers and ridiculous accusations–still receives much more publicity that Rotherham and the others. The media know the public is anti-immigration so SOME stuff is put out but still not very much compared to the level of hysteria that Savile and the Old Men have had. Just look at the volume–Rotherham etc could no longer be completely hidden–but if it had the same level of treatment as Sav etc in terms of amount of words and the hysteria of said words most newspapers carrying the story would have exploded in your hand.

  30. And just to clarify, you are *NOT* asserting this is a fantasy like the Satanic Abuse panic, right?

    Some moral panics are pure fantasy, while others are distortions or exaggerations.

  31. Ecks-

    Just look at the volume

    Of shouting? Yes, I know. Okay seriously, the volume of what precisely? The basic point I keep making is that there is no calm, rational analysis going on. You’ve got an estimate of whatever- 1400 or so- teenage girls known to social services who are in some way considered related to the phenomenon, at least some of whom refuse to accept they were victims of anything despite considerable inducements to do so. And in the popular imagination that turns into 1400 ten year olds gang raped, and that’s “just the tip of the iceberg”.

    I’m not comfortable with that kind of information. Are you?

  32. I agree there is a lack of calm rational analysis on this planet. Hell, even Mr Spock is dead. But the level of uncalm, unrational unDude media hysteria is far less in the Rotherham caper than in the wicked whitesters caper. Because the scum of the left want the “wicked” whites hyped and the wicked non-whites dehyped –all the way to silence if possible. Their problem is that if the light of reason did somewhat deflate the non-white caper the left could not stop the same light shining on the white caper (and I still think in there is a case to answer in Rotherham etc). Which would evaporate 100% (as the Satanic Panic in the UK— after 25 years had gone by).

  33. Ecks-

    I’m sure there are many cases to answer in Rotherham. That doesn’t mean we should blindly storm ahead without any sceptical caution. When we have a situation in which official reports are declaring persons “victims” who have resolutely denied that they are victims, and when a wide variety of situations are all boiled down to SMFS’s “raped and tortured ten year olds”, we need to stand back and take a deep breath.

    The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one’s time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
    -HL Mencken

  34. @SMFS, you say “No one is speaking up for Saville”. I disagree. Anna Raccoon is one amongst a small number countering the hype over Savile.

    A whole section of her blog covers the story. A lot of recent articles highlight the calm rational analysis of the claims which for some reason they are ignored by the MSM who cherry pick the most lurid stories and hype it up. Probably something to do with the fact that newspapers don’t report news, never have, they are just a form of entertainment and are keeping their readers happy with lots of gossip.

    See http://annaraccoon.com/category/duncroftsavile/jimmy-savile/

  35. I’m sure there are many cases to answer in Rotherham. That doesn’t mean we should blindly storm ahead without any sceptical caution.
    Bollocks. Jay quantified the victims and identified the predator group. Casey exposed the facilitators. Multiple reports show the crimes in multiple cities. Probably 20,000 victims, 60,000 perpetrators.

    The problem is not that the state is ‘storming ahead’, but that it’s doing fuck all.

  36. Why quote Mencken? He clearly wrote within a society of (generally) shares cultural values. We have imported millions of people from an alien culture into this country. And we are increasingly seeing that there are many aspects of that culture(s) that are utterly reprehensible to us. So I reject your urge for us to “defend scoundrels”.

  37. blimey, thats a lot of comments! They don’t turn a blind eye, they positively encourage it. Sex education starts in primary school. If we had a bill of rights then it would probably be in at around number 5!

  38. As I recall its 1400 girls over a period of time. Not all would have had the same experiences, the same problems, the same contact with the same guys,
    ‘Counsellors’ convinced of rape can badger and badget to get the ‘victim’ to confess. Even when there has been no rape. Would not suprise me if some ‘break down and confess’ in order to stop the idiot hassling them. And of course there are those who are raped and abused, they get the short end of the stick way too often as resources are spent trying to help those who do not want help!

  39. Just for the record,
    “The report also urges the Government to carry out research into why there is a particular problem with child sexual exploitation within the Muslim or Pakistani community in Britain.

    (FWIW, that was also quoted – twice – in the Guardian article.)

    And puhlease people, stop talking about racism when this is about ‘culturism’. I don’t care what colour you are as long as you don’t hold the same views as that Indian rapist (and his lawyer).

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