On sex trafficking again

So we’ve a “debate” in The G again about criminalising the purchase but not the sale of sex. On the yes we must do this side:

I strongly believe that the buying of sexual services must be criminalised if we are to tackle the problem of human trafficking.

But as we all know trafficking into the sex trade barely exists. So why does this dim idiot think it does?

Migration into the sex trade most certainly does exist: but not trafficking.

57 thoughts on “On sex trafficking again”

  1. You have to question the bona fide credentials of anyone who would allow this as a bio in a national newspaper:

    ‘Rahila Gupta is a writer and journalist. Her last book, Enslaved: The New British Slavery explores the role of immigration controls in enslaving people with no formal status here’

    Again – there is a golden opportunity here – Conservative ministers need to be looking at these stories, paying their legions of staff to investigate what, if any, public money is accruing to people like this whether in the form of salary or grant and earmarking it for the first cuts in public expenditure. Without public subvention none of these ideologies would be able to flourish as there is almost no private demand for them.

  2. JuliaM

    I think it was the ASI that went through the Guardian’s Society sections for a period of six months between 1997 and ’01 (The first Blair term) calculating the cost of these jobs and their relative terms and conditions against Private Sector jobs of equivalent type at the time. They found that the PC non-job had equal or better pay, superior (because inflation -linked) pension schemes and usually superior fringe benefits to the private sector jobs on offer at the time.

    I often said that the conservatives needed to be scouring the pages of those job sections, looking at the language used (Which in most cases was entirely PC jargon) and using that as the core of their advertising for the general elections in ’01 and ’05 – ‘you paid your taxes for a ‘Cherokee LGBTTQQFAGPBDSM (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Transsexual, Queer, Questioning, Flexual, Asexual, Genderf**k, Polyamourous, Bondage/Disciple, Dominance/Submission, Sadism/Masochism) Co-ordinator- that ok with you?’

    Of course such a tactic would have caused a storm amongst the Guardian reading classes but I am guessing it would have been a huge vote winner amongst groups who were more likely to vote, and also resonated (in that fictitious example) both in the ethnic minority and elderly segments of the population. I’d better stop there – I’m worried I’m starting to sound like a right wing version of Richard Murphy…

  3. Conflating sexual services with human trafficking.

    Might as well have written ” the buying of manicures must be criminalised if we are to tackle the problem of human trafficking.” it makes just as much sense.

  4. Because both versions of this moral panic- White Slavery a century ago and now Sex Trafficking- are inventions of the anti-prostitution/social purity movement intended to force through anti-prostitution legislation is why.

  5. Of course you could always use the laws making human trafficking illegal, to, you know, deal with the problem of human trafficking.

    Does making the consumption of drugs illegal ‘deal with the problem of drug trafficking and muling’? Or does it just make it less likely that consumers will talk to the authorities?

  6. Speaking of ads in the Guardian, I have a clear recollection of #nothirdterm Cameron saying he was going to require all gov jobs to be advertised on a gov website, cutting the G off at the knees.

    That went the same way as the bonfire of the quangos, didn’t it?

  7. Van Pattern–Far from trying to expose the cost of these lies, “Conservative” politicians are endorsing this tripe in the hope that they can gain personal advantage from such poisonous rhetoric. Read the pronouncements of the Fish Faced Hag(tm) on the 100,000 underage Viet girls now being forced to offer themselves in UK nail bars.

  8. bloke (not) in spain

    They really do live at unprecedented levels of fantasy, don’t they?
    Let’s say the stories of ‘sex slave auctions’ had some validity. If you were holding one, you’d hardly be dong it in one of the hotels near Gatwick or Heathrow, would you? The same hotels going to be infested with airline crews, immigration officers, border control people & all sorts of other people might spot what was going on. You being sat right next to a major international airport.

  9. Next time I’m at Gatwick I’ll loiter at the Costa in arrivals and see if I can spot the slave auctions.

  10. Mr Ecks, would “the Fish Faced Hag(tm)” be Mrs Theresa May?
    I have to say she looks a complete babe in the oil painting I have hidden in my attic.

  11. JuliaM

    What exactly do you mean by “cut off the oxygen of publicity to people like Jacquie Lawrence”?

  12. Roue le jour,

    If I thought it could destroy The Guardian, I’d build and run one for free (it’s not a complicated problem and the hosting charges aren’t that much).

  13. JuliaM – you find the best stuff:

    My most recent on-board cheer was a small but significant moment because it was the first lesbian moment I had seen in a movie for what seemed like forever

    There are websites for that kind of thing.

    According to an audit by the BFI Festival office, the portrayal of lesbians on the big screen has been pretty miserly, with only nine movies with significant lesbian content distributed in the three years prior to 2015.

    Yes. Tiny minority and all that. But she has a point: gay men are more celebrated in popular media than are lesbians. Why is that?

    Partly it’s because so many gay men participate in the media. And partly it’s because gay men tend to be, well, gay, in the old fashioned sense of the word, whereas lesbians… not so much.

    Film and TV are supposed to be entertaining. So what’s more entertaining? A catty gay character who throws out sharply observed one-liners as if they were wedding confetti, or a dour, dungaree’d, Doberman-faced diesel dyke?

    Gays often have ebullient personalities and a desire to entertain. Lesbian are typically unhappy or downright angry women who have failed at heterosexuality.

    There are no lesbian equivalents to Liberace, Elton John, Freddie Mercury, Kenny Everett, George Michael, and countless other gay stars.

    We need more lesbian drama on all screens: cinema, television, computer and mobile. And as soon as you can please.

    Oh we do, do we?

    Jacquie Lawrence is the author of Different for Girls, out now through zitebooks.com.

    Ah, this is one of those “your dog wants steak” stories.

  14. So Jacqueline Lawrence, what do we mean by “deny her the oxygen of publicity”?
    Take your time, I’m not expecting an answer to come to you quickly.

  15. @Ted S. I suspect that Ironman is quite capable of using Google but wants to know what JuliaM means rather than asking what Google’s take is. Horse’s mouth stylie.

  16. Ted/ JuliaM

    Yep, I thought your answer would be about me rather than the question, which I strongly suspect you can’t answer.

    The search led to a letter to a paper which, whilst containing the phrase, was about rival candidates urging tactical voting against Alex Salmon. Absolutely nothing to do with Jacquie Lawrence.

    So let’s try again – and really think about it Julia- what do YOU mean by “deny her the oxygen of publicity”?

  17. MagnusW.
    Trafficking is already illegal. Controlling a prostitute for gain is illegal. A client who has been with a prostitute who has been trafficked/coerced is committing an offence – even if the client didn’t know about the circumstances (strict liability). This fact makes nonsense out of the propaganda from Bindel and her ilk that further legislation is justified – it isn’t. If exploitation is going on there are laws to address it which need to be enforced – laws which rightly do not interfere with activities of consenting parties. This is what the likes of repressors seldom tell people – because what they want to criminalise is consenting adults who agree over paying for sex, freely agree it’s what they wish to do. Naturally the gender extremists never mention the women who pay for sex with men, and the gays who pay for sex with males. I suppose to them women are incapable of behaving in ways they disapprove of.

  18. Zippgun – “A client who has been with a prostitute who has been trafficked/coerced is committing an offence – even if the client didn’t know about the circumstances (strict liability).”

    This shows the cuntiness of the anti-sex trade people. Now if a punter visits a girl he thinks may be trafficked and walks away, he is disincentivised to report it to the police for fear of personal prosecution. Strangely enough most punters don’t enjoy fucking girls who are terrified/dead fish and have traditionally been these girls lifelines.

    As usual, its got fuck all to do with protecting women and everything to do with control over men.

  19. It’s interesting that the left wants to criminalise demand but legalise supply in the sex industry, because feminism.

    When it comes to the narcotics market, they tend to favour the opposite: criminalising suppliers but exonerating customers. Because poor helpless victims of rapacious drug dealers.

    If sex trafficking was a real problem, surely the quickest and most humane way to end it would be to legalise all prostitution.

    We know that prohibition simply allows vriminals to make supernormal profits. Why would anyone go to the expense and risk of keeping women as sex slaves when there are so many willing to voluntarily work as prossies?

    And who would frequent trafficked tarts when legitimate businesses could offer you a cheaper, cleaner, and more convenient selection – without you having to worry about the police kicking your door in?

    Free the kerb crawlers!

  20. Yes yes “rolls eyes at Ironman” ie. tries to play the ball.
    Stop wriggling. You made the comment so I asked you what YOU meant by it. And you really don’t want to answer do you!

    Now; what do you mean by “deny her the oxygen of publicity”?

  21. JuliaM/ Ironman

    The enemy we face is at Tax Research UK, not in here. Dissension in the ranks will be a death knell when faced with the ironclad certainties of Crown,Dickie, Horrocks or Wilcox and their goons.

    ‘Listen….. and understand – Murphy’s people are out there. They can’t be bargained with, they can’t be reasoned with. They don’t feel pity…. or remorse….or fear, and they absolutely will not stop – ever – until we are dead.’

    I think the idea is to see – ‘is someone like Jacquie Lawrence receiving public money, eitherdirectly or via whatever ‘Third Sector’ intermediary masquerades as independent of the state. If so, this ‘oxygen’ should be cut off.

    I would expect her ire to be raised considerably and the frequency of her publication of articles alleging ‘homophobia’ within the Guardian or other blogs to increase exponentially – then, let the public decide if they feel dramas focused on the L part of the LGBTTQQFAGPBDSM community are worthy of their funding? Not sure if that answers Ironman’s question or not?

  22. Steve

    “There are no lesbian equivalents to Liberace, Elton John, Freddie Mercury, Kenny Everett, George Michael, and countless other gay stars.”

    Completely ignoring the existence of Beatrix Campbell, Julie Bindel and Rhona Cameron, to name but three.

  23. Andrew K – Completely ignoring the existence of Beatrix Campbell, Julie Bindel and Rhona Cameron, to name but three.

    That is cruel. 🙂

  24. Have I by accident wandered into Ironman’s blog, where he gets to make the rules and issue demands like some sort of fucking emperor of old?

    The fucking ego on this one.

  25. I suspect its that the writer of that piece in the guardian is trying to find a way of preventing escorts making money but cannot quite come up with a viable method. So drags in various made up stuff or poor arguments hoping someone will take notice,

  26. @Johnnydub “As usual, its got fuck all to do with protecting women and everything to do with control over men.”

    Most of feminism is about maximising womens options while limiting or eradicating same for men.

  27. Ecksy

    “Andrew K: That would be the Portrait of Doreen Gray I think.”

    That is the first time I have laughed with (rather than at) you!

    Keep taking your medication: evidently, it is working.

  28. Might as well have written ” the buying of manicures must be criminalised if we are to tackle the problem of human trafficking.” it makes just as much sense.

    Which is indeed a problem, because the morons in the Civil Service cannot tell the difference between someone stuffed in a sack in the back of a van and cargoes to Cambridge to service men at 20 quid ‘a head’ and a fit girl from Brasov who has decided that she can probably earn easy money in Amsterdam, Berlin, London or wherever and would rather do so there than Brasov because (a) she’d rather her family didn’t find out, but more importantly (b) because she can earn a hell of a lot more flogging her wares to relatively well off Western Europeans than to Romanians.

    Actions have consequences and the EU’s freedom of movement related directives have a far bigger driving force than some idiot civil servants reality-selective belief in “Sex Trafficking”.

    At the most it is little more than arbitrage.

  29. Van Patten

    It is an answer, though not Julia ‘ s.

    And I should nail my colours to the mast and say that isn’t good enough for me. I am defined by what I believe in; not by what I hate and want to destroy. Richard Murphy is a little Marxist/Fascist who wants to destroy the very liberal society that allows him to thrive. That is my beef with him (OK, one of them).

    Leveson was used to generate an excuse to close down a newspaper that said thing the British Left didn’t like – phone hacking was mere pretext. Now you and Julia say you want to close off the Guardian’s access to funds expressly so that it cannot give voice to certain opinions you don’t like. I say NO and will keep saying NO. And please don’t talk about taxpayer money here, we both know that we would be fine with it if the Guardian shared our views.

    As for those views:- Jacquie wants to see more lesbians get it on in films; so do I.

  30. @John Galt

    And even if there was someone savvy enough in the civil service (or an MP) to realise that what you are saying is true, who would dare to stand up and say it, knowing the Feminazi backlash they would receive?

    If you’re not in favour of the automatic castration of men suspected of thinking about using a prostitute, you must be a serial killer of young girls.

  31. Ironman: “….we both know that we would be fine with it if the Guardian shared our views.”

    I can’t (and so don’t) speak for Van_Patten, but I’d like to go on record here as stating that no, I would NOT support some useless graduate sucking up taxpayer money pushing an endless stream of right-wing suggestions.

    Maintain defences & infrastructure, keep the peace – that’s all I ask of govt servants.

  32. This by the way-

    I strongly believe that the buying of sexual services must be criminalised if we are to tackle the problem of human trafficking.

    -is a classic example of “the argument from one’s own authority”.

  33. Ironman – Jacquie wants to see more lesbians get it on in films; so do I.

    You used to be able to see that sort of thing on “Movies For Men”, but they started censoring it a couple of years ago.

    Now it cuts straight from the “I’m here to fix your refridgerator” to them having a post-coital fag with no soft core naughty bits in between. 🙁

  34. @Ironman “Jacquie wants to see more lesbians get it on in films; so do I.”

    Me too. They make Brokeback Mountain, a film about gay cowboys and everyone falls over themselves to say how artisitic it is and how it should get an Oscar but when I went to the government for funding for “Humpback Mountain”, a film in which a cowboy stumbles upon two young lesbian indian squaws going at it and decides he’s going to join in, they turned me away. Double bloody standards. And I was going to direct the film and play the cowboy so costs would have been low.

  35. Ironman

    That’s a fair comment – What I was recommending (and it really needs a more detailed conversation) is that in the event the government feels a need to curtail public expenditure, it might be best served by not providing funding for this kind of thing first off – I’m not Murphy – I don’t post demanding that Osborne enact my draft shadow budget ‘lest he be considered an enemy of civil society’

    My counter to your second point would be that I don’t think we should be funding opinions I find amenable or unpalatable – that isn’t what a free society is about at all! I would let a marketplace of ideas thrive – if they’re robust enough why would they need public money for support?

    LOL at your final point BTW – seriously – I don’t want to sound like Jack Nicholson in ‘Mars Attacks’ (why don’t we all just…get along???) but the enemy is Murphy and his acolytes – we should not lose site of that.

  36. By the way, I’m currently seeking funding for my epic trilogy, “Nudie Amazon Women Of Mars”, if anyone’s got a few hundred million dollarpoundeuros lying around.

  37. Jim – Hey, less of the Doberman please! They’re beautiful dogs.

    I’ve never liked them since I saw “The Omen”.

    AndyC – Custer’s Revenge: The Movie

  38. Steve

    Jeez – Dobermanns and ‘the Omen’ – You are not wrong there – used to actually come close to shaking when I saw one having watched the Omen far too young (was about 11 I think!) Recovered now but it took a while!

  39. Bloke in Costa Rica

    The Dobermans (Dobermen?) did rather redeem themselves by eating Josef Mengele in The Boys from Brazil.

  40. @JulisaM Maintain defences & infrastructure, keep the peace – that’s all I ask of govt servants.

    Are you sure in the previous thread you were arguing for extra-judicial killing too, which in my book goes beyond keeping the peace.

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