DiscussJune 26, 2015 Tim WorstallSport30 CommentsNBA Draft. Confederate battle flag. For discussion: how much is the draft an auction of young men? previousUmm, yeahnextAnd so Greece leaves the euro 30 thoughts on “Discuss” So Much for Subtlety June 26, 2015 at 11:45 am Some idiot wrote a book comparing American athletics to slavery. I think he called it the New Plantation. I think any society that takes someone seriously when they compare throwing tens of millions of dollars at a young man simply because he can throw a ball to slavery is f**ked up beyond all belief or hope of redemption. Stick a fork in the West. It is done. JuliaM June 26, 2015 at 11:48 am The Islamists are wielding that fork in Grenoble as we type… Mr Ecks June 26, 2015 at 12:04 pm The issue is the destruction of the Left. Without that gang on the job there would be no Islamic problem in the West . And with them smashed now the Islamic issue could easily be sorted. It all comes back to destroying the left, the enemy within. If we do that we win regardless of the odds/opposition. Gunker June 26, 2015 at 12:07 pm I wonder if the US government will lead a campaign to get the ISIS flag banned ? Interested June 26, 2015 at 12:10 pm Careful Julia – did you not get Ironman’s memo about racism? Because I’m pretty sure I can hear the put-put of a Scooter of Justice (TM Johnnydub) and some indignant shutuppery. In case you didn’t: It is *forbidden* to mention the religion of such people, because it is entirely irrelevant. They could just as easily be Hindu, or Buddhist. On the main topic, the world went mad a while ago and is going madder. Humankind cannot bear very much reality, or democracy, or (in my case) basketball. The Confederate Flag stuff is hilarious – the Democrats were the main fliers of it for about a hundred years. Gamecock June 26, 2015 at 12:23 pm ‘Apple states that “we have removed apps from the App Store that use the Confederate flag in offensive or mean-spirited ways, which is in violation of our guidelines.’ Whatever that means . . . I’m not sure I know how to use a flag in a mean-spirited way. With Libtards, just displaying it would be mean-spirited, no doubt. So, we had a deranged young man shoot up a church because he figured it would be an easier target than a school, therefore, the flag must go. It’s not about the flag. One wag even blamed Donald Trump for the massacre. The Libtards don’t like the South, and they want to purge the culture. They see this crisis as an opportunity to take a bite out of the South. ISIS destroys history in Palmyra; Libtards destroy history in Columbia. Dongguan John June 26, 2015 at 12:33 pm Isn’t it bullshit that the confederacy was all just about slavery anyway? There were 4 slave states in the union to whom Lincoln conveniently decided the Emancipation Proclamation didn’t apply. Bloke no Longer in Austria June 26, 2015 at 12:52 pm I wonder if Apple will ban anything pertaining to the Dukes of Hazzard. After all, driving cars mid-air through billboards is pretty inappropriate. Interested June 26, 2015 at 1:21 pm @Gamecock ‘The Libtards don’t like the South, and they want to purge the culture.’ Correct me if I’m wrong but you’re American? I believe it to be the case that lots of black people are fleeing the hellholes of Detroit, Philly, Baltimore etc in a kind of reversal of the 1950s move north? Is that because they like racism? We should be told! Interested June 26, 2015 at 1:26 pm Meanwhile, almost thirty people have been killed since May 1 in Washington itself. Luckily, things will calm down now Apple isn’t selling items with Confederate flag logos. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/dc-homicides-jump-20-percent-amid-a-surge-in-may-june/2015/06/25/2effd93c-1b37-11e5-93b7-5eddc056ad8a_story.html?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_2_na Tim Almond June 26, 2015 at 2:02 pm Gamecock, “Apple states that “we have removed apps from the App Store that use the Confederate flag in offensive or mean-spirited ways, which is in violation of our guidelines.” Except they didn’t. They told the people who make Ultimate General: Gettysburg, an RTS that strives for accuracy, to remove the Confederate flag from their game. The game appears to show the state of the belligerents on a map using their flag and numbers (right down to the union flag being the best representation of the one at the time). The developers of the game refused as it would be a rewriting of history http://www.ultimategeneral.com/blog/our-game-has-been-removed-from-appstore It’s quite normal for Apple. They’ve never understood 3rd party developers in the way that Microsoft, Google or Steam do. It’s why Mac users can run stuff from Apple and Adobe and not much else. Google’s store is like a fairly classic liberal state that runs on low taxes, and rule of law that is quite lightweight. You do things, and if you break the laws, you get punished. The Apple store is more like a medieval kingdom. You pay a much higher tax, you have to show your app to the Lord Chancellor/app approval team and the King can just wake up one day and madly banish you from the kingdom without trial after he changed the law that morning. And the King, of course allows his friends to break the law in a way that mere subjects can’t. Thankfully, market share is moving towards Android. It will become the primary platform for app developers in a few years and the iPhone will be a phone for people who want a nice piece of bling. JuliaM June 26, 2015 at 2:29 pm BnliA: “I wonder if Apple will ban anything pertaining to the Dukes of Hazzard.” Warner Bros got there first: http://news.sky.com/story/1507907/dukes-of-hazzard-toy-car-off-sale-due-to-flag Jack C June 26, 2015 at 2:30 pm But Apple is cool. So you’re wrong. dearieme June 26, 2015 at 2:33 pm “Isn’t it bullshit that the confederacy was all just about slavery anyway?” Not really; it’s what the confederate states said at the time. It’s certainly a good approximation. Tim Almond June 26, 2015 at 2:41 pm Dongguan John, “Isn’t it bullshit that the confederacy was all just about slavery anyway?” Well, it all started with slavery, but it was really about secession – the south wanting to leave the union because they disagreed over slavery. If the union had banned blue cheese and the south had felt strongly enough to create the confederacy in favour of blue cheese rights, a civil war would have occurred. And while it is a symbol of racism to many, there’s no doubt it’s also about identity to many. Bo and Luke Duke had one on their car, but I don’t remember the episode where they tried to keep Sherrif Rosco P Coltrane away from Uncle Jesse’s cross burning. Gamecock June 26, 2015 at 3:29 pm “Well, it all started with slavery, but it was really about secession – the south wanting to leave the union because they disagreed over slavery.” That is what the victors wrote in the history books. It was actually about light houses. The United States, as founded, had a federal government with very limited roles. The country was financed, as founded, by tariffs. Principally on British goods sold in the South. The South was financing the whole game. Spending was done by Congress, populated in the majority by northerners and westerners. The North got 3 times as many light houses as the South, and Southerners knew it. In the 1850s, a tripling of the tariff was proposed, the Morrill Tariff. Lincoln supported the tariff. In the late 1850s, the northern and western states stopped enforcing the Fugitive Slave Act. So, by 1860, South Carolina got tired of paying for the party, and seceded. It was about money. Had the United States had an income tax in the 1850s, or other significant source of income, two major things would have happened: 1. Slavery would have been ended, and, critically, on terms acceptable to all. Turmoil would have been prevented. Slavery was ended in much of western Europe in the early 19th century by compensated emancipation. Slave owners were paid for their property. 40% of value, as I recall reading. The problem in the U.S. was that the only money available to buy the slaves CAME FROM THE SLAVE OWNERS! through the tariffs they paid. 2. A broad source of income for the U.S. would have prevented Southern resentment of how, or more importantly, where, Congress spent money. Gamecock June 26, 2015 at 3:35 pm Interested – Yes, I’m ‘merican. Raised in South Carolina, and living here again for the last 17 years. I lived in Richmond, VA, for 16 years. The Libtards cling to their racism meme. America has changed radically in 50 years. Racism is rare today. When observed, it seems ODD to people. But the race hustlers can’t accept that, or they’ll be out of a job. So they try to create the appearance of racism at every opportunity. Leaving most of us bewildered, saying, “What the hell are they talking about?” Gamecock June 26, 2015 at 3:46 pm BTW, the display of the Conferate Battle Flag in battles is bogus. It was rarely used. It was an HQ flag, in reality. Armies in the 1860s, both Southern and Union, were comprised of regional militias. Unlike today, where units are blended, a critical change. A regiment from one town could be wiped out in a battle, which would devastate the town, by most of the men folk being killed. Flags were critical signalling tools in 1860s. Above the smoke and noise of the battlefield, the raised flag was the guide for the soldiers. Flags were STATE flags, or even unit flags. Troops portrayed as carrying the Confederate Battle Flag into battle is just ignorant. That includes Apple et al. So they want what never happened to be removed from their games. Whatever. Social Justice Warrior June 26, 2015 at 4:03 pm “Well, it all started with slavery, but it was really about secession – the south wanting to leave the union because they disagreed over slavery.” That is what the victors wrote in the history books. It’s also what the losers wrote in their Declarations of Causes, which contain one mention of light-houses and 83 mentions of slavery and slave-holding. Philip Scott Thomas June 26, 2015 at 4:06 pm Bloke no Longer in Austria – I wonder if Apple will ban anything pertaining to the Dukes of Hazzard. I’m afraid you’re too late.. Richard Allan June 26, 2015 at 5:03 pm By the way PaulB, “social justice warrior” is old-hat. We’re calling you “crybullies” now. Kevin B June 26, 2015 at 6:19 pm Mark Steyn has a little rant on the topic of who owns the Confederate Flag. Interested June 26, 2015 at 6:20 pm @Gamecock Thanks. I have/had friends in South Carolina (Parris Island) and have visited many times. How’s the weather there at the moment…?! Anyway. I take it as given that on a broadly liberal/libertarian blog most contributors believe slavery to be a horrible thing. That said, why is slavery such a mahoosive issue in respect of the States when: a) It happened many many decades ago. b) Pretty much every nation or people in the world has done it at some time or another, some to a much greater extent, and some are still doing it at least tacitly today, including nations we trade and work with. c) Non white traders were involved too. d) African blacks were at least as involved Most American blacks (horrible as slavery was) are better off as descendants of slaves than most African blacks. Gamecock June 26, 2015 at 8:12 pm Interested: Been very hot here last few weeks. Upper 90s. Some relief tomorrow. One wonders how people survived 150 years ago without air conditioning. So Much for Subtlety June 26, 2015 at 11:22 pm Social Justice Warrior – “It’s also what the losers wrote in their Declarations of Causes, which contain one mention of light-houses and 83 mentions of slavery and slave-holding.” One mention of light houses? I note that in the meantime someone who took an active and unrepentant part in crimes greater than slavery in the Southern states of America, Zygmunt Bauman, continues not only to sell his books on Amazon, but to be honoured by all in academia – and on the Left. Agammamon June 27, 2015 at 12:30 am For discussion: how much is the draft an auction of young men? Not at all. Dongguan John June 27, 2015 at 4:26 am I can’t see how it could have been mostly about slavery. I must been missing something because the logic doesn’t work. The usual narrative as I hear it is that the nasty South wanted slavery and the benevolent Union wanted to free all men. Ok. So the south decided to bugger off on their own and a war started. But what doesn’t make sense to me is that there were 4 slave states in the union and these 4 states were allowed to keep their slaves; they were not included in the Emancipation Proclamation. So as I have it we have a situation where the south wanted to leave because they were going to lose their rights to own slaves but if a state remained in the union they were allowed to keep slaves. It doesn’t add up. Gamecocks version of events makes more sense. Anoneumouse June 27, 2015 at 7:24 am An APPLE with a bite out. A symbol of the sins of man. Tim Newman June 27, 2015 at 8:32 am I don’t know where that leaves the Southern battlefield reenactors. Maybe they’ll be permitted to fly a rainbow flag instead of the Confederate one? Social Justice Warrior June 27, 2015 at 10:22 am So as I have it we have a situation where the south wanted to leave because they were going to lose their rights to own slaves but if a state remained in the union they were allowed to keep slaves. It doesn’t add up. There’s no mystery about this. Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation under his authority as Commander-in-Chief of the army. So it applied only to the rebel states. He didn’t have the authority to free slaves anywhere else. The confederate states seceded not because there was any immediate threat to abolish slavery, but because Lincoln’s election as president meant that there would be no slavery in the new western territories. Both sides believed that the resulting permanent anti-slavery majority would lead to the eventual extinction of slavery. Leave a Reply Cancel replyYour email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *Comment Name * Email * Website Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.