But seriously folks

There’re times to obey the rules and there are times to strangle the last politician with the intestines of the last bureaucrat.

….he felt it was unfair to fine the bartender in this particular situation as the customer was her father.

17 thoughts on “But seriously folks”

  1. Last time I was involved in that trade over there was 15 years ago. But then, no, carding was not required. Heavy (like about this heavy) for serving someone who was under age, and thus any even marginal case would be carded. But it wasn’t the carding or not which was the legal requirement. It was the not serving the underage which was.

  2. Story looks like a hoax: none of the 5 US states I’ve lived in required carding of all customers (only used on youngsters) & I’d have heard if that had changed.
    e.g. the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission says: Texas state law does not require that a person over 21 provide any identification to purchase alcohol in Texas.

  3. “Tennessee is set to become the first state in the nation to require carding of anyone, without exception, who buys beer for off-premises consumption.”

    That incident could happen there, apparently, except that it probably wouldn’t be “a bartender” that falls foul of it.

  4. I worked in a bar in Oz many moons ago that had a licencing requirement that it had to card every customer (a few too many under age violations).

    A regular brought her Dad along who was about 70 years old with a big white beard, but the bouncers wouldn’t let him in as he didn’t have ID on him.

  5. So Much for Subtlety

    James in NZ – “I worked in a bar in Oz many moons ago that had a licencing requirement that it had to card every customer (a few too many under age violations). A regular brought her Dad along who was about 70 years old with a big white beard, but the bouncers wouldn’t let him in as he didn’t have ID on him.”

    No, no, clearly you did not understand the purpose of those Australian laws. Obviously the intent was to make sure all the drinkers were underage. It must be a crime for anyone but a child to drink in Australia.

    I mean, think about it. It would explain a lot.

  6. Either failure to card is not an offence, in which case the state was abusing its power, or it is, in which case the state was abusing its power.

    Or the story’s a fabrication.

    What we have here is a third-hand report on the operation of a law the internet has never heard of, in a remarkable but wholly anonymous case which online news organizations have entirely overlooked. Why would anyone believe it?

    Not so long ago there was a highly implausible magazine report of a campus rape. Tim rightly noted its implausibility, and made further posts, as the case unravelled, in which he and commentators gleefully mocked anyone who’d believed the original report.

    Here we have a similarly implausible story, but this one Tim accepts without reservation, advocating that anyone who might be indirectly responsible should be strangled.

    Why the sudden outbreak of credulity?

  7. It appears there was a law in Indiana that anyone buying alcohol must be carded (although it does seem to apply to stores and not bars). From 2011:

    “Under the current law, each person, regardless of age, who buys alcohol must present an ID to the seller. If the seller does not require the buyer to show ID with a birth date, the seller can be charged with a class D misdemeanor.”

    http://www.courierpress.com/news/state-alcohol-id-law-draws-appeals-for-common

    It now appears to have been amended:

    “1.Indiana law requires permittees and their employees to check identification of any person under the age of 40 when conducting carryout sales. While there is no similar ID requirement law for on-premise consumption, the Excise Police encourage requiring identification from anyone appearing under 26 years of age when making sales for on-premise consumption. Acceptable forms of identification are picture ID’s, including but not limited to, a driver’s license, state-issued ID card, US Government identification. REMEMBER: If you still question the age of the person you should refuse to serve them.”

    http://www.in.gov/atc/isep/2384.htm

  8. SJW,

    > a law the internet has never heard of

    As long as you ignore the two examples John and CHF have already found, good point. (Buying drink from a bar to take home is an entirely normal thing.)

    > which online news organizations have entirely overlooked.

    Seriously? A fine for a breach of a minor regulation? In a nation of (what is it now?) 300,000,000 people? If that doesn’t make the news, it can’t have happened?

    I know someone who got turned down for planning permission. It’s not in the news either.

    > Here we have a similarly implausible story

    No it’s not. From the extremely small sample size of the commenters on this site, we already have one person who’s seen something similar happen in front of their very eyes.

    The sad fact is that authorities insisting on an absolutely rigid unbending enforcement of the strict letter of the rules no matter what is a completely normal aspect of society. The phenomenon is so common that we have a word for it in British English: “jobsworth”. In Britain we have people who have criminal records because their bins were left ever-so slightly overfull, for fuck’s sake. In the US, they have used anti-weapons rules to expel children from school for drawing pictures of guns — or, in one case, for nibbling a Pop-tart into the shape of a gun.

    So where’s the implausible bit?

  9. Carding is mandatory in New Jersey, and you do get carded regardless of age.

    Meanwhile in Atlanta, it’s variable. Indeed, as a very rough generalisation, drinking heavily seems to be something you until you’re 21, then you stop. Especially during the week.

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