OxiJuly 6, 2015 Tim WorstallSex17 CommentsYou know you want to photoshop this: Myself, in normal times, I would happily say Nai, but perhaps when she’s a little less angry. previousSo, just how cheap are Nigerian sofas?nextTruth hurts does it? 17 thoughts on “Oxi” A Nonny Mouse July 6, 2015 at 8:25 am In the interests of public decency, Alexis Tsipras has already been photoshopped out of that picture Ian B July 6, 2015 at 8:25 am My admiration for the Greek people has risen thanks to the referendum. Kudos, and all that. Ironman July 6, 2015 at 8:52 am Fresh on from Ritchie this morning: “Greece undoubtedly needs money. It is reasonable for it to presume its central bank (the ECB) will provide it.” Yeah, well I need money. And it is reasonable for me to presume Richard Murphy and his wife will provide it. No, of course there is no fiscal union between us and no agreement in place to that effect. However, DEMOCRACY! I’ve voted to get a bail out from the Murphy family and he should respect that. His kids haven’t actually been asked; they would agree with me if they were. Rob July 6, 2015 at 9:14 am My household has voted no in a referendum to continuing to pay the mortgage to the bank. DEMOCRACY! Down with neoliberal economics, contracts, etc! Ian B July 6, 2015 at 9:33 am Debt default is nothing unusual. That’s why we have some form of bankruptcy in most reasonably advanced societies. It’s simply wrong to think of debt as an absolute. One way to look at this; when an economy hits a crash situation, it’s because the price system has radically diverged from actual values. The whole price system thus needs to adjust, basically by liquidating malinvestment. (This is pretty standard free market neoliberal sophistry economics). Attempting to maintain debts from before the price system adjustment is attempting to propagate the old price system which is now obsolete. The prices the debts were based on no longer apply. This is why “austerity” to pay off these debts doesn’t have a good effect. They are malinvestments. They have to be liquidated too. Another way to look at it is that a debt is a wager. The lender bets on the capacity of the borrower to repay the debt in the future. This is why if you’re lending money to build a car factory, you’re going to look at the business plan and market and try to guess whether it’s a good bet. If you bet wrong- the car business is a failure- your money will be lost. Buying national debt is generally thought to be a safe bet. Well, not this time. The creditors wagered, and lost. JeremyT July 6, 2015 at 9:45 am Whatever, Tsipras and Varoufakis ran rings round the Euros. Chortle. Bloke in Germany July 6, 2015 at 9:49 am The debt has to be written off, AND Greece needs to start running a functional economy. Both sides here – Syriza and the EUcrats are in the wrong. Ironman July 6, 2015 at 9:57 am I love the way the British Left has just discovered the European project is build on profoundly undemocratic foundations. They’ve come late but they’ve arrived in style. Ian B July 6, 2015 at 10:56 am For the Left, the definition of “democracy” is “things going our way”. dearieme July 6, 2015 at 11:31 am “This is why if you’re lending money to build a car factory, you’re going to look at the business plan and market and try to guess whether it’s a good bet.” Was it J P Morgan who said that when it came to lending money the first thing he looked at was the character of the borrower? On those grounds only a loony would lend to Greece at anything other than usurious rates. dearieme July 6, 2015 at 11:36 am The power of google” Asked: “Is not commercial credit based primarily upon money or property?” “No sir,” replied Morgan. “The first thing is character.” “Before money or property?” “Before money or anything else. Money cannot buy it … Because a man I do not trust could not get money from me on all the bonds in Christendom.” dee July 6, 2015 at 11:43 am The EU is somewhat in the position of the medieval papacy struggling to contain the emerging national monarchies. Like the papacy the EU claims a metaphysical power-the gift of everlasting peace and prosperity but this is running up against severe problems of a terrestrial nature, and these are threatening its holy (holier than thou) image. If Greece can succeed, even modestly, then there is a good chance that others will follow. And with that maybe we can leave behind these atavistic dreams of a new Roman Empire for good. Dennis the Peasant July 6, 2015 at 1:52 pm “Whatever, Tsipras and Varoufakis ran rings round the Euros. Chortle.” Are T & V chortling all the way to be bank, JT? Dennis the Peasant July 6, 2015 at 2:00 pm What Tsipras still hasn’t figured out is that the EU and Germany have bigger fish to fry than a minnow like Greece: Think Spain and Italy. Now that Tsipras has managed to so deftly paint himself into a corner via the referendum, what little leverage he might have possessed to gain a negotiated settlement is gone. He’s dared the EU to bag Greece at the precise time that the EU would think doing so to be a good idea in terms of the Big Picture (i.e., Spain and Italy). How that qualifies as running rings around the EU is beyond me. Ian B July 6, 2015 at 2:07 pm Well maybe the point there is that the EU is supposed to be a benign protector of minnows, so to speak, so they gain safety from membership. The more the EU acts like an imperium dealing with a satrapy, the worse they look. Things are coming to a head (generally) in ways that the powerful neither desired nor predicted. History is often like that. We live in interesting times. Richard July 6, 2015 at 2:18 pm Ian B said: “Things are coming to a head” Oh, is it a caption competition now? Ian B July 6, 2015 at 2:20 pm …made me lol… Leave a Reply Cancel replyYour email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *Comment Name * Email * Website Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.