The Nordics

Perhaps that’s because when asked about their views on socialism, Sanders’ supporters often point to the Nordic economies, even though these countries are actually highly capitalist economies with large welfare states. They didn’t get rich with the sort of autarchic economic policies now fashionable on the American left. They relied on privatization, deregulation, free trade, large private multinational corporations and relatively low taxes on capital income.

Then you tax all that lovely economic activity to pay for the welfare stuff.

35 thoughts on “The Nordics”

  1. Excellent example of intersectionality there:

    But what you can’t plausibly do is cram the issue of structural racism in the criminal justice system into a frame that’s about the perfidy of economic elites. Prosecutors, cops, and correctional officers aren’t economic elites, they’re hard-working middle-class Americans who often enjoy the labor union protections and collective bargaining rights that populists want to stand up for.

    So next time the teachers or tube drivers go on strike, we can accuse them of racism. Wonderful.

  2. It’s the thing about different cultures, people cherry pick their favourite bits and say “why can’t we be like them”.

    Like that ‘sprit level’ rubbish where they say Japanese people live longer, Japan is more equal, therefore if only we in the UK were more equal maybe we’d live longer.

    Well, the Japanese are incredibly xenophobic and misogynistic. Mybe that’s why they live longer and maybe we in the UK need to be more like that.

    Or maybe these factors aren’t connected at all.

  3. So this Bernie Sanders chap… is he basically the American Jeremy Corbyn?

    Sanders’ supporters often point to the Nordic economies, even though these countries are actually highly capitalist economies with large welfare states.

    As Tim keeps saying.

    You can tell a lot about people by their myths. The fabled Nordics are to modern Anglosphere lefties what Prester John was to embattled medieval Christians.

    It is indeed a dream of “white people socialism”. A vision of a liberal-left utopia with a caring, embracing, and gratifyingly competent welfare state run by kind-hearted people who look like Ulrika Jonsson.

    But one which also has all the mod cons: funky Scandinavian furniture, iPhones, charming little electric Volvos, pleasingly bijou independent coffee shops selling fairtrade skinny lattes….

    It’s a nice myth, but the reality is more complicated. And the Nordic dream has a sell-by date.

    The blue-eyed utopias of Scandinavia are rapidly filling up with new slums and new problems.

    So goodbye, white people socialism, hello Somalian and Eritrean socialism.

    Socialism can sort-of work in a homogenous society with high levels of altruism, low levels of corruption, minimal nepotism, and a highly productive private sector to pay for it all.

    Once that’s gone, once the society becomes a patchwork quilt of squabbling ethnicities – especially ones from cultures where it’s “me, my brother and my cousin against the world” – then socialism becomes a quick race to the bottom as each tribe jostles to vote itself entitlements at the expense of all the others. Politics turns into a racial headcount, and the surplus wealth required to fund the whole endeavour dries up – which only fuels worsened racial tensions as everybody fights for a bigger slice of a shrinking pie.

    Guess which type of socialism is more likely to prevail in Los Estados Unidos?

  4. What Steve just said.

    Again, something completely ignored by the Spirit Level authors. Homogenous societies tend to be more altruistic. That’s human nature.

    Kipling had it right;

    The Stranger within my gate,
    He may be true or kind,
    But he does not talk my talk–
    I cannot feel his mind.
    I see the face and the eyes and the mouth,
    But not the soul behind.

  5. Steve

    as always sheer genius – the Breivik murders in Norway were for me the loudest warning one could have had that the good times are drawing to a close for Scandinavia.

    One of the statistical tricks beloved of the Guardian is to put the UK lower down the League table of countries accepting migrants by putting in the figures per head of population. Invariably Denmark, Sweden and Norway feature highly in any such comparison as their source populations are smaller and they do accept large numbers of immigrants. No surprise to see the Guardian relegate to the nether regions of his websites news reports revealing the inevitable corollary. These countries are slowly Islamifying and will be a good deal less favourable to visit within 6 decades or so (maybe sooner!)

    I hope I am alive and Living in whatever non-Sharia country I can to see (for example) Owen Jones pushed off a tall building or in a video featuring ‘Jihadi John’ – would be nice to be able to say to them ‘Told you so’ just before the descent/ knife begins cutting…..

  6. Van_P: 20 years, not 60 – here’s the Gatestone Institute:
    Forty years after the Swedish parliament unanimously decided to change the formerly homogenous Sweden into a multicultural country, violent crime has increased by 300% and rapes by 1,472%. Sweden is now number two on the list of rape countries, surpassed only by Lesotho in Southern Africa.

  7. @AndrewC

    Well, the Japanese are incredibly xenophobic and misogynistic.

    Bollocks on stilts. Japan followed the western model. Develop a modern navy, adopt a military government and carve out an empire. Japan’s problem was that it was a) late, and b) yellow people treating white people exactly the same way as the white people treated the yellow people.

    Chinese and Korean revanshists have spent decades exploiting white resentment about their humiliation by Japanese forces in WWII. It never stops, it never goes away, and the weak-minded buy it every time.

  8. “The weak minded obviously including the UN…”

    Well obviously. They’d have to be near the top of the list when they claim for example that “hate speech laws are compatible with freedom of expression”.

  9. Wonder what the UN is doing to eliminate misogny in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Have they sent a strongly worded letter yet, or is that too drastic a measure?

  10. @ JeremyT: selective reporting. the definitions of the mentioned crimes have been extended to a silly degree, making the numbers close to useless.

  11. Bloke in Costa Rica

    Steve, re “white people socialism”—I do not think it a coincidence that Bernie Sanders is from Vermont, which is about as racially and culturally homogeneous as Uppsala c. 1893.

  12. How much has the murder rate increased (if it has)? The definition of murder is a tough one to stretch, as a rule. Also please allow for the tremendous advances in trauma care in the period. Thanks.

  13. @JeremyT: Jo Lovett; Liz Kelly (2009). Different systems, similar outcomes?. London Metropolitan University. p. 17.

  14. AndrewC – Kipling was right. Robert Frost also put it well: good fences make good neighbours.

    Van_Patten – thank you.

    Yes, I fear there will be more Breiviks.

    Bloke in Costa Rica – re “white people socialism”—I do not think it a coincidence that Bernie Sanders is from Vermont, which is about as racially and culturally homogeneous as Uppsala c. 1893.

    Yes. Though Bernie and friends are working on that.

    It’s also a generational thing. Bernie Sanders is 73. He grew up in a USA that was 90% white. The America that shaped his formative experiences no longer exists, but it’s very difficult as you get older to stay in touch with new cultural and demographic trends. Reading the papers isn’t the same thing as living it.

    Bernie’s an old white man who came of age in the Mad Men era, and most of his close friends are probably similar. The mentality of that generation was a sense of racial noblesse oblige, which gave birth to civil rights, the great society, and affirmative action.

    That made sense in a country that was rock-solid in its European demographics, but is rather silly in a country where white folks will soon be a minority.

  15. @ASdrewC Relying on the UN is weak minded bollocks on stilts.

    The Korean stuff goes like this. Koreans choose to migrate to Japan for the better opportunities in Japan. They are racially indistingushiable from native Japanese. Some choose to not integate and maintain their “special status”. (Special status Koreans have all of the benefits of being Japanese: pensions, social security, travel in and out, as native Japanese). “Special Status” Koreans are also disproportionately represented in the organised crime/Yakuza statistics, but I’ll let that go.

    What you have is a set of UN/SJW reports finding that migrants who choose not to conform to Japanese social standards have problems. I love it here. No Christians, no Muslims we never lock the front door and I always leave the key in the ignition when I park the car. No Social Justice Warriors arguing we should allow in those who wish to destroy us. Fucking brilliant.

  16. “Then you tax all that lovely economic activity to pay for the welfare stuff.”

    Then you watch as the lovely economic activity mysteriously disappears.

    Then you end up with Zimbabwe or Detroit.

    And then you realize you are the unwitting victim of horribly bad luck!!!

  17. @BIJ

    “@ASdrewC Relying on the UN is weak minded bollocks on stilts”

    With such erudite debating kills on display, clearly there’s no point in continuing the argument.

    I’m glad you’re happy that there are no Christians or Muslims there and no-one arguing to allow people into Japan who want to ‘destroy you’ and that if there are any problems they are caused by Koreans who don’t want to ‘conform’ and are probably all gangsters anyway. That just about proves how open and welcoming to foreigners Japan must surely be.

  18. Bloke not in Cymru

    Wasn’t frost actually questioning the need for the wall and creating barriers between people and the good fences was just a proverb trotted out by the neighbour without even thinking about it.
    The practice of walking the boundaries going back far enough to have become something ritualistic rather than have a purpose in and of itself anymore

  19. Bloke not in Cymru – Wasn’t frost actually questioning the need for the wall and creating barriers between people and the good fences was just a proverb trotted out by the neighbour without even thinking about it.

    Could be, but his neighbour was right.

  20. “That just about proves how open and welcoming to foreigners Japan must surely be.”

    Maybe mass immigration just doesn’t work for them. Not every place can be a Rotherham-style multicultural wonderland.

  21. “Forty years after the Swedish parliament unanimously decided to change the formerly homogenous Sweden into a multicultural country, violent crime has increased by 300% and rapes by 1,472%. Sweden is now number two on the list of rape countries, surpassed only by Lesotho in Southern Africa”

    The Swedish elites decided that Swedish people were a bit too white, a bit too lucky, and a bit too happy. They needed to feel more guilt, more pain, and more “equality”.

    I really find it stunning that a the leaders of a country hate that county so much that they are prepared to unleash a slow burning genocide upon their own people as punishment, apparently for being what they are. They have imported actual enemies of western culture into the soft unprotected centre of Sweden to such an extent that the country will be transformed within tens of years into a completely different place; one very hostile to native Swedes .
    This guilt and self hatred is the white disease. It destroys us.

  22. @Tomsmith: I suggest you visit Sweden and spend some time there. It is quite far from the rather delusional picture you paint.

  23. Andrew C-BIJ has a point-the UN includes any number of vile dictatorships one of which is currently in the running for UN HR Commission. Why pay any attention to these political chameleons?
    When you describe a people as misogynistic you may be perpetuating that old fashioned state of mind that classifies other ways of living according to the categories prevalent in its own society-in this case the category of feminism, or, as the UN wld have it “He for She”.

  24. @ Tomsmith: Cool. Hope you enjoyed it. I spent a bit more than two decades in Sweden, visited Norway quite a few times. I have my own set of gripes about both of the countries, but seriously, quoting the Gatestone Institute? Come on, you must have better sources than that?

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