Robert Conquest worked for the Foreign Service!!! All his work is paid propaganda. His books distort history in order to pretend Socialism is horrible and Capitalism, oh so wonderful. Stalin did not kill 25 million people. This is pure propaganda. It was under 500,000. This is well-documented. From 1917 to 1922 18 countries and 16 legions invaded the Soviet Union. Winston Churchill was quoted with saying, “We need to strangle the baby in the crib.” That being said, the West paid at least tens of thousands of people to act as agents to destroy the Soviet Union. Of course, the Soviet Union had every right to kill these agents provocateurs. If you want to know more read Grover Furr’s Book on the subject. The famine in the Ukraine was fabricated by William Hearst. Read “Fraud, Famine, and Fascism” by Douglas Tottle. One of the reasons was to hide the 3 to 9 million people who died of starvation during the Dust Bowl in the US while our government was burning to keep wheat prices high. Robert Conquest is the man who equated Stalin to Hitler. Let’s get the facts straight: While the US was dallying in Western Europe, The Soviet Union lost 28 million lives so that we would not be saluting “Heil Hitler” today. It was the Nazis who created concentration camps, but it was the Soviets who liberated them. That’s right, the Soviets!! While the US was court-martialing pilots for the unauthorized use of dropping bombs on trains heading to the camps, the Soviets were freeing those prisoners. Finally, let’s discuss why we ever got the 40 hour work week, social security, free education, abolition of child labor, and women and minorities got the right to vote. It wasn’t because US capitalism woke up one day and said it was wrong to work people 12-16 hours a day, 7 days a week from the age of 6. It was because Workers in the US and Western Europe were looking at the Soviet Union, the first successful Workers Revolution and were saying to themselves, “Hey, if they can have it there, maybe we need a revolution, too if our masters won’t give us those same right.” The Ruling Elites got scared and decided to give concession which they are now taking back, calling it austerity. Interesting how there’s always money to subsidize Exxon Mobile & Monstanto, always money for war, but none for education, housing, etc..that benefit workers. Anyway, with the fall of the Soviet Union, you tell me how’s capitalism working for you? Because it’s not working for me nor for 1/2 the population of Americans who know live near or at the poverty level. At least under Stalin everyone was entitled to a job, housing, utilities, education to the university level, and medical. More than I can say for the American freedom to be hungry, homeless, and denied medical care for lack of funds.
I do not justify the murder of 500,000 people, because a portion were innocent. However, many were paid spies and agent-provocateurs. Again, going back to history-the USSR was attacked by every capitalist government in the world. To defend itself it had no choice. How do you justify though the mass genocides committed by Capitalists governments for power; whether Turkey, the US, Belgium, or Great Britain? Isn’t this what Hitler was emulating; other capitalist governments? It was the bankers & Ruling elites of the US and Great Britain who put Hitler in power; fearing a socialist revolution there. Bankers did not put Stalin in power. The very opposite. Fascism, not socialism is an extension of Capitalism. When people no longer believe in fake bourgeois elections then the Ruling Elite have to use force. In fact, if when Hitler decided to put Jews & political prisoners in concentration camps, he cited the murder of 20 million Native Americans by the US government. When he was asked who was his mentor, he replied, Woodrow Wilson. He said it was Wilson who showed him the power of propaganda & force. Remember it was Wilson who jailed Eugene Debs for making an anti-war speech, Debs was sentenced to 25 years in for making an anti-war speech during WW1. Why Hitler cited the genocide of the Indians instead of the British murdering 84 million Indians in India I don’t know. In fact, Churchill was involved with the British man-made famine as he was with using poison gas in the USSR in 1917. Stalin was not happy to make a pact with Hitler. He had no choice. The USSR lost millions trying to defend itself from 16 legions and 18 countries from 1917-1922. The Soviet Union had to make a pact. As to diving Poland: The part partitioned to the USSR, the McCurran line used to belong to Russia until WW1. As to equating Hitler with Stalin: Perhaps Nazi Germany it should be Winston Churchill. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn is far from being any reliable source. He wrote propaganda books for the US government. He was a Tzarist supporter and vicious anti-Semite. He admired Hitler for his Final Solution.
Remember when you were a child and were taught Native Americans were savages. Then you grew up and realized that was an excuse for the US to commit genocide on Natives in order to strip them of their land and natural resources. I am here to put forward facts. I cannot change beliefs. I am aware that since you were a child you have been led to believe many lies either by the media controlled by the Ruling Elites or through the text-books you read as a child in school; again written by the Ruling Elite who publish textbooks. Of course, the Ruling Elites will say nothing good about socialism. Just like once upon a time they had nothing good to say about Natives, until we almost slaughtered them all or Jews. Ignaz Semmelweis was considered a lunatic, too for promoting hand-washing between doing autopsies and helping women give birth. The problem was not facts. The problem was beliefs. The doctors had developed strong beliefs from their miseducation.
You wonder how long this chap has been reading the Telegraph without appreciating that it is not a journal of Stalinist loyalism.
Long live the tinfoil hat.
He probably thinks Corbyn is a right-wing splitter.
“18 countries and 16 legions invaded the Soviet Union”
Cor, those Romans eh? Always up for a scrap. Unfortunately the Comrade didn’t mention how a cohort of gladius armed legionnaires fared against the T34s – guess I’ll have to crack open a history book to see what the outcome was.
The poster is Seamus Milne, and I claim my £5…
Some say that when views like this are aired, rational people should argue calmly, presenting facts to rebut lies and win the individual over by force of intellect and truth.
Bollocks. When someone is so deluded, a bit of four by two rationally applied to the temple, is the only thing that works. Try arguing rationally with an Islamist. Or old lefties.
I’ve seen the Stalin society in person. A few years ago I was having a beer around Holborn station on my lunch break when we saw a parade of authentic commies with their banners and flags and inferior satorial choices.
The normal trade union types looked fairly normal to be fair, a couple of the Maoists were actually wearing those Dr Evil suits.
The coffin-dodgers carrying the portrait of Stalin were a decrepit lot of manky-teethed loons. Average age was about 80. Come to think of it, they’re most likely dead now. *Fistpump*
Whoever this socialist shite is he needs to get the brutal death that his gang have handed out to so many millions of others. I wonder how much soviet-style torture it would take to hear this character give a show-trial full recantation of his views . Followed by a bullet in the back of the head. The good old socialist way.
Mad as f*ck. The Ukrainian famine was invented to cover up a famine killing 3-9 million in the US? How crazy do you have to be to believe that?
In about 1985 I spent an evening with a Tanker and a mutual friend. At that time I was a lapsed Trotskyist. I have to say the encounter was exhausting.
Everything the Soviet Union said was gospel. Every opponent was a fascist including me. Khrushchev was the unreliable exception to the gospel. Pointing out that he, the Tanker in West, was free to organise, publish and demonstrate whereas Capitalists in the USSR were imprisoned was denied. The lack of any opposition was in fact a reflection of the unity of support.
We even talked about Lysenko and our boy was still a fan, claiming that Lysenko would be vindicated in the long run. I’m still waiting.
A couple of people mention age. I would guess our boy is currently aged between 50-60. But maybe he’s grown up!
“who died of starvation during the Dust Bowl in the US”
Proving yet again that Tragic Events can be a powerful driver of Progress.
Dust Bowl was replaced by the much snazzier Super Bowl, and the catering at US stadia is now uniformly abundant, if not always cordon bleu.
Death by ennui can still occur during baseball matches, but that’s all part of the game.
Who wrote this drivel? I’m tempted to google it but am at work and don’t want too much distraction.
They walk among us…….
From a leftish position: it wasn’t the US that was dallying in Western Europe while the Russians defeated the Nazis on Russian soil, it was Churchill’s UK.The Americans were constantly chivvying the Brits to cross the Channel and attack the Germans while they were so tied down in the Soviet Union.What Churchill was doing was some latter day appeasement: leaving the Germans free to finish off the Commy Russians as the original pre-war appeasers hoped.
Not succeeding, he was instrumental in starting a Cold War against the people who won the War for us and we probably could have lived alongside. This Cold War is still going on.(There is the tinfoil hat issue of what deal Hess came over with to negotiate with Churchill.The answer is fairly obvious IMO. Ordinary Londoners who saw a big drop in bombing after Barbarossa were not in any doubt .)
Were this Stalinist Russia, poor old Jess would be number 500,001 for airing views that were contrary to accepted fact.
DBC: Glad you said Russians. Cos that who beat the Nazi’s –the poor fucking Russian people, abused and tormented by socialist scum in both directions.
As for the rest of your diatribe–it would have been marvellous if events could have been contrived so that both groups of socialist shitebags could have been destroyed. Todays world would be a far better place.
In his Memoirs, Kingsley Amis tells how an American publisher suggested to Conquest that there might be a new edition of The Great Terror. “What about a new title, Bob? We won’t pretend it’s a new book, but a new title would be good. What do you say?” Amis suggested that Conquest’s reply encapsulated his character: “Well, perhaps, “I told you so, you fucking fools” How’s that?
this article about Douglas Tottle, author of the book he cites, is interesting
“In his book, Searching for place: Ukrainian Displaced Persons, Canada, and the Migration of Memory, Lubomyr Luciuk comments: “For a particularly base example of famine-denial literature, see Tottle, Fraud, famine, and fascism…”.
Another point: signs are that Hitler’s mentor was Henry Ford not Woodrow Wilson. Ford was more anti-Semitic than Hitler who kept a photograph of Ford in front of him in his office at all times.
‘Ford was more anti-Semitic than Hitler’
Did Ford kill more Jews than Hitler? No. Now fuck off.
Both of them would love the modern Left.
BTW DBC, not sure you understand what the word ‘mentor’ means.
For those who want more of this sort of thing, go and look at this and the following comments. Entertaining.
DBC Reed, was that the Henry Ford who orchestrated the deaths of 6 million Jews ?
There once was a Bolshie named Lenin
Who did two or three million men in.
That’s a lot to have done in,
But where he did one in,
A Bolshie named Stalin did ten in.
So what the commentator there is saying that he’s a denier?
Oh, wait, that’s not an insult to the clown quarter of the Left…
Another piece from the same commentor some five months back:
Not succeeding, he was instrumental in starting a Cold War against the people who won the War for us and we probably could have lived alongside.
Churchill started the Cold War, eh? Nothing to do with Stalin then, he was content to pull the troops out of Eastern Europe was he? When did the Russians finally leave Berlin, again?
Let me see now….Godwin’s law…Poe’s law…..
“Another point: signs are that Hitler’s mentor was Henry Ford not Woodrow Wilson. Ford was more anti-Semitic than Hitler who kept a photograph of Ford in front of him in his office at all times.”
Ah yes, that evil Henry Ford collaborating with the Nazis eh?
The US enthusiasm for opening a Second Front in Europe in 1943 waned very quickly as they discovered just how hard an opposed amphibious assault, followed by exploitation, actually was. Op NEPTUNE was marginal as it was (ever seen the letter Eisenhower wrote the night before, ready to accept full responsibility for failure?) – if it had been tried in 1943 it would have been a gruesome disaster and it would have taken much more than a year to be able to consider a second attempt.
Meanwhile, one of the most underrated battles for changing the course of the Second World War was Beda Fomm (end ’40-early ’41) which drove the Germans to send the Afrika Korps to bail out the Italians. The DAK only had four divisions… but it took 25% of the Wehrmacht’s motor transport, and lack of trucks proved a catastrophic brake on Barbarossa and subsequent operations. There’s more to military life than counting divisions…
Perhap the French should have carried on advancing when they invaded Germany in 1939.
Of course he did.
He was a brickie wasn’t he? Announced the Iron Curtain, knocked it up in a lunchtime break and then back to No10 for champers in the bath.
This must be the man … interesting choice of reading matter:
It’s almost possible to feel pity for writers such as these.
Their daily lives must be a continuing torment as the masses consistently refuse to rise up and create the workers’ paradise.
Each election that either returns a Blairite Social Democrat or Cameroon Christian Democrat, a permanent rebuke.
Years of rising living standards, new technology, consumer goods, ever-advancing pharmacological research, the content in which most people live their lives while they shrivel into ever-more resentment at the wilful world refusing to comply with their righteous vision of heaven-on-earth.
It must be a miserable life.
But then, almost but not quite might be an appropriate response. In their delusion they must find some comfort.
And once you realise that the DT commenter could well be Ritchie, then gales of laughter seems better.
I was thinking that the writer must be DBCR and, lo and behold, look who turns up spouting his oft – debunked bollocks about WW2.
“Jessica Coco”: come on, chaps, it’s a parody.
It has to be a parody – someone actually thinking this is unlikely to be able to master Disqus………
“the fall of the Soviet Union”-why did such a brilliant civilisation collapse?
Pipes “Russian Revolution” deals specifically with some of these falsehoods, for example the establishment of concentration camps by Lenin.
I was discussing who Hitler’s mentor was and suggested Henry Ford as an alternative to Woodrow Wilson.I would also suggest that people read Hitler’s Hero by Allan Hall in the Daily Express
on the Net which contains Hitler quotes like ” I regard Henry Ford as my inspiration” in the hope that people might accept that this paper is not stridently pro Communist.
If Hitler had a mentor, it was probably Houston Stewart Chamberlain.
Maybe DBCR could also clarify how the US and UK could launch an assault on mainland Europe in 1943 without an army (the men had not even been recruited let alone trained), without the tanks, guns and landing craft that hadn’t been built, while ferrying all this non-exstent materiel across the Atlantic during the battle of the Atlantic…..
Does all this matter when cultural marxism is doing so well?
Churchill had a huge army in North Africa: the Second Battle at EL Alamein was in 1942.WTF was the idea of sending so many men and much materiel to North Africa when the Huns were supposedly menacing us cross the Channel ?Of course the allies get to invade Sicily with help from the Mafia by launching from N Africa and then move North up Italy aka the ” soft underbelly”” in a repeat of the grossly narcissistic Churchill’s amateurish strategy at Gallipolli.
‘it wasn’t the US that was dallying in Western Europe while the Russians defeated the Nazis on Russian soil, it was Churchill’s UK’.
That’s because organising a cross-channel invasion, winning air superiority, choosing the beaches to land on, planning the sustainment of the divisions you land, and then figuring out how to beat 27 Wehrmacht and SS divisions is not something you can do on the weekend in between mowing your lawn.
‘Churchill had a huge army in North Africa: the Second Battle at EL Alamein was in 1942.WTF was the idea of sending so many men and much materiel to North Africa when the Huns were supposedly menacing us cross the Channel ?’
The bulk of the British Army (and practically all of its Canadian counterpart) were in the UK from 1940-1944.
‘Of course the allies get to invade Sicily with help from the Mafia’
Utter bollocks. Try reading John Dickie’s works on the Cosa Nostra before you dribble another sentence.