Ritchie doesn’t understand international law either

Richard Murphy says:
August 31 2015 at 7:01 pm
I am amused that they advertise a sinecure reinforcing UK formal presence in a tax haven undermining our revenues quite so openly

Reply
Jack C says:
August 31 2015 at 10:51 pm
The Isle of Man is, quite simply, not part of the UK (and predates the UK).

It is independent, and self-governing.

Richard Murphy says:
September 1 2015 at 6:43 am
Like Yorkshire is

No, not like Yorkshire is. Yorkshire is part of the UK. The Isle of Man is not. It’s really very simple.

The IoM is not part of the UK in the same way that Paris, Canada and Ulaan Bator are not part of the UK.

127 thoughts on “Ritchie doesn’t understand international law either”

  1. Bloke in North Dorset

    Going back a lot of years we used to have bumper stickers (as our US cousins call them), proclaiming Home Rule for Yorkshire, Geoff Boycott for President. Maybe that’s what confused him?

    He can’t help himself, he opens mouth before engaging brain and then doesn’t have the good manners to accept he made a mistake and instead digs a deeper hole. It really is going to be fun once the serious press get stuck in to him.

  2. Rather than pointing out the areas of which he is ignorant, it would save much time if we simply listed those areas in which he is unquestionably an expert.

    I’ll start:

  3. He’ll be deploying his “get real” response for this one.

    Should he get the chance, Murph should think twice before sending a gunboat to impose his will.

    The Lord of Mann is also an Admiral in the Nebraskan navy.

  4. Can’t wait for Brillo to bring such marvellous gems of Ritchie’s unique knowledge and understanding of the world up on Daily Politics.

  5. The Courageous State doesn’t recognise international law, international boundaries or self-determination. It Courageously throws its weight around against small countries because social justice.

  6. Please please can we make sure any media appearances by the great man are widely pre-advertised here? It will be set the Sky+ box o’clock.

  7. We had all this prior to the election:

    Ed Miliband writes to leaders of overseas territories warning them he will not tolerate tax avoidance if Labour wins the election.

    News of the opposition leader’s posturing has broken like a thunder-clap over Washington DC, as Constitutional experts scrabble to assess the implications.

    Said senior advisor David P Gruebelhappy IV, “the US situation is a lot less clear than we like to believe. Washington was, after all, an Englishman, and the King couldn’t be bothered to answer our calls. He was, they all were, distracted by India at the time, and must have found our simple Puritan ways something of a bore. In short, we just don’t know if their gunboat is coming our way or not.”

    A further complication is that Britain only controlled 13 of the 50 states. “We would certainly bring it up”, said House Spokesperson Doris Cheesepump, “but the 13 are pretty much the good bits. Florida is just leather-skinned maniacs with sharp teeth, even if you can stay away from the alligators, and there’s no proof that California exists at all, at least not in the normal sense of the word. You’re welcome to Texas frankly.”

    How Britain would impose itself on the US is less clear. Most states, indeed most towns, are better armed then the UK, and the Royal Navy’s gunboat is currently awaiting actual guns. However, Pentagon strategist General-General Erwin Oaf was quick to warn against complacency; “Piers Morgan got in. One Direction practically own the place. And your Kate is a lot more likeable than that foreign-born commie in the White House. Bet she can shoot too.”

  8. BiND:

    Oliver Kamm in The Times today (paywall) gets stuck in:

    “[Corbyn’s] campaign initially floated the idea that £120 billion was available to the exchequer from clamping down on tax evasion and avoidance. To scorn from tax experts, that figure has been revised down to a still preposterous estimate of £20 billion. If it’s that easy to find a sum that’s more than five times the gross receipts of inheritance tax, why has George Osborne decided not to collect it? Mr Corbyn’s adviser, a chartered accountant called Richard Murphy, maintains that the chancellor consciously refuses to do it out of a “neoliberal belief in small government”.

    “This is still not the most fantastical element of Corbynomics. That prize goes to his plan to compel the Bank of England to buy bonds issued by a public investment bank. A coherent left-wing policy would be to run a looser fiscal policy, issuing more gilts, to increase spending on infrastructure. Instead, Mr Corbyn wants to force the Bank to underwrite deficit financing for his own ends, regardless of whether it conflicts with the Bank’s mandate to control inflation.

    “That policy will be inflationary. It will depress real incomes. Mr Corbyn is not the most communicative of politicians, but it’s time he answered questions about the costs of his policies.”

  9. “Mr Corbyn’s adviser, a chartered accountant called Richard Murphy”

    Ha ha. Why does this raise in my mind’s eye an image of Rumpelstiltskin stamping a hole in the floor of a Norfolk shed?

  10. Theo>

    “If it’s that easy to find a sum that’s more than five times the gross receipts of inheritance tax, why has George Osborne decided not to collect it? ”

    As I keep pointing out, the basis of the Magic Money Tree conspiracy theory is that ‘the jooz’ have stolen it.

  11. This is fun ….

    Mike Cheshunt says:
    September 1 2015 at 9:57 am
    The Isle of Man is to all intents and purposes part of the UK. They speak English and drive on the left hand side of the road. To suggest otherwise is to be blinded by the neo-liberal world view of borders and international law.

    Which Murphy then follows up.

  12. “it would save much time if we simply listed those areas in which he is unquestionably an expert.”

    Self-promotion?

  13. Corbyn’s team have an interesting view on relationships with Britain.

    Corbyn wants to hand the Falklands over to Argentina.

    Murphy wants to take control of the IoM.

    I’m sure there is a nuance to all of this, but I’m clearly too stupid to see it.

  14. The Republic of Ireland Isle is to all intents and purposes part of the UK. They speak English and drive on the left hand side of the road. To suggest otherwise is to be blinded by the neo-liberal world view of borders and international law.

  15. Australia is to all intents and purposes part of the UK. They speak English and drive on the left hand side of the road. To suggest otherwise is to be blinded by the neo-liberal world view of borders and international law.

  16. New Zealand is to all intents and purposes part of the UK. They speak English and drive on the left hand side of the road. To suggest otherwise is to be blinded by the neo-liberal world view of borders and international law.

  17. Malta is to all intents and purposes part of the UK. They speak English and drive on the left hand side of the road. To suggest otherwise is to be blinded by the neo-liberal world view of borders and international law.

  18. Matthew L : “Self-promotion?”

    Up to a point; but, of course, his arrogance and belligerence undermine his self-promotion.

  19. Guyana is to all intents and purposes part of the UK. They speak English and drive on the left hand side of the road. To suggest otherwise is to be blinded by the neo-liberal world view of borders and international law.

  20. —————
    He added: “Do I feel as if my risk has increased as a result of this? Yes. I have an eight year-old and a 10 year-old, and I am thinking whether I should let them pick up the post. Are my children in danger?

    “I have also been invited to speak in public in the Isle of Man in June, and my wife has said to me that she does not want me to go.”
    ———————–

  21. So Much For Subtlety

    Matt Wardman – “He added: “Do I feel as if my risk has increased as a result of this? Yes. I have an eight year-old and a 10 year-old, and I am thinking whether I should let them pick up the post. Are my children in danger? “I have also been invited to speak in public in the Isle of Man in June, and my wife has said to me that she does not want me to go.””

    If his wife married him many years ago, when he was a little more normal and perhaps had some promise, I could actually understand. Sympathise even. But if his sprogs are so young, she must be the second wife and so married him when he was pretty much as he is now.

    The mind boggles really. We are really all so very lucky for the generosity of women.

  22. “Mr Corbyn’s adviser, a chartered accountant called Richard Murphy”

    Any chance we could persuade the ICAEW to revoke his charter, for bringing the industry into disrepute?

  23. Dr Jacqueline Murphy is indeed the second Mrs Murphy. At one stage he referred to her not having practised for some 18 months for health reasons. I believe that she had a hand (or something) in him becoming a Quaker:

  24. So Much For Subtlety

    Andrew K – “Dr Jacqueline Murphy is indeed the second Mrs Murphy.”

    He managed to persuade a woman of child-bearing years to marry him? I mean, come on. Look at his photo! Who would look at him and think “Cor, I want to get me some of that”?

    “At one stage he referred to her not having practised for some 18 months for health reasons.”

    Any speculation about those reasons would not be gentlemanly.

  25. Frederick:

    Frankly, I prefer to look at the evidence in front of me. Let’s get real shall we? It’s clear that all these countries are part of the UK.

    I live in the real world. You clearly do not. Serious people agree with me.

    That is your last post. You will not get the chance again.

  26. Among the most nauseating of Murphy’s posts are the ones where he drags his son into proceedings and regales us with stories of how his son asks just the right question to set Murphy off pontificating.

    Hopefully, as with most children, Murphy’s will rebel against what their parents have to offer.

    This will make Murphy’s children rather likeable.

  27. I think Murphy’s position is what it is on everything else!

    – I declare this to be the position and any inconvenient traditions, laws, conventions, opinions, rulings or status quos that exist will be ignored, finessed, or repealed in my plan.

    See his response to the fact that Govts selling bonds essentially too themselves being illegal in EU Law.

    ‘Past it’s sell by date. Will change.’

  28. Japan is to all intents and purposes part of the UK. They speak English and drive on the left hand side of the road. To suggest otherwise is to be blinded by the neo-liberal world view of borders and international law.

  29. Franklin Scrote says:
    September 1 2015 at 10:52 am
    Memory may be playing tricks here Richard, but didn’t you once face a credible threat to your physical well-being from that part of the world?

    Richard Murphy says:
    September 1 2015 at 12:20 pm
    I certainly won’t be applying!

  30. Murphy’s all over the place on the IOM now.

    Apparently the legal differences are a ‘charade’.

    That the IOM has a separate legal, tax and passport system in the real world doesn’t detract from Murphy’s world vision.

  31. “That the IOM has a separate legal, tax and passport system in the real world doesn’t detract from Murphy’s world vision.”

    Different firearms laws, too, amongst many, many others.

  32. Cyprus is to all intents and purposes part of the UK. Most people speak English and drive on the left hand side of the road. To suggest otherwise is to be blinded by the neo-liberal world view of borders and international law.

  33. ProgContra,
    Don’t forget the two sovereign base areas in Cyprus.

    These have the Queen as monarch, but are not part of the UK. They are, however, part of both the EU and the EZ.

  34. And you’re right to point out that Cypriots drive on the left (in theory as well as practice these days, at least most of the time).

  35. “Apparently the legal differences are a ‘charade’.”

    Interesting that the man who insists on both the spirit and the letter of the Law should hold such an opinion.

  36. Oh, come on…

    Hong Kong is to all intents and purposes part of the UK. Most people speak English and drive on the left hand side of the road. To suggest otherwise is to be blinded by the neo-liberal world view of borders and international law.

    Did Fat Pang cry in vain?

  37. “Interesting that the man who insists on both the spirit and the letter of the Law should hold such an opinion.”

    Different holes in the stump again 🙂

  38. It may seem a relatively trivial point on the surface, however it’s quite extraordinary that:

    1) The LHTD does not know that the IoM is not in the EU (or the UK). Jersey and Guernsey as well presumably.

    2) That the LHTD cannot bring himself to either check, or to admit error.

  39. I have a theory, Bison’s Law if you will, that there’s an inverse relationship between the rationality of a proposition and the number of arguments he adduces in support.

    “And seventh” is an indication that he’s absolutely away with the fairies.

  40. Whether it’s the BoE or the IoM, Murphy cannot grasp that independence admits of degree. In his book, everything is black or white; and he believes he is the first person to detect the neo-liberal conspiracy that prevents the rest of us seeing the true nature of things.

  41. It’s fair to say that the army could easily walk in and take over the Crown Dependencies (the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands). Who would object – the UN? the French? They couldn’t care less.

    Thus we infer that Corbyn’s manifesto involves invading sovereign nations and overthrowing their governments. Corbyn isn’t that different from Blair after all.

  42. The Crown via the Privy Council has ultimate say on legislation within the Crown Dependencies. If any legislation passed by the various CDs are deemed harmful to the UK then the Privy Council can intervene on behalf of the UK Government.

    As Jack C points out, the CDs are not part of the EU, but rely on the UK Government for representation therein. So it can be argued that the CDs are for all intents and purposes part of the UK when managing foreign affairs.

    The idea that the CDs are autonomous or independent is nonsense.

    As has been bantered in Guernsey and Jersey, a full DOI would prove to be a nightmare.

    I haven’t read the Murphy thread so I don’t know what you children have been bickering about, but the CDs are not nation states and are beholden to the UK. So: semantics.

  43. Come on matey:

    The fourteen British Overseas Territories (BOT) are territories under the jurisdiction and sovereignty of the United Kingdom; they do not, however, form part of it.[1][2] Instead, they are those parts of the former British Empire that have not chosen independence or have voted to remain British territories. While each has its own internal leadership, most being self-governing, they share the British monarch (Elizabeth II) as head of state.

    Although the Crown Dependencies of Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man are also under the sovereignty of the British Crown, they are in a different constitutional relationship with the United Kingdom.

  44. @Arnald

    Yeah. Semantics.

    So you guys in the channel islands and IOM are paying 45% top rate personal income tax. And CGT. And IHT. And trading companies are paying 20% CT? Because it’s only a ‘semantic’ difference says you are not?

    I bet ‘semantically’ you are a number one world-wide top selling recording artist.

    Shame about the real world intruding on semantics, isn’t it.

  45. “Arnald

    I haven’t read the Murphy thread”

    Well, you’re adopting Murphy’s tactics then. Choosing arguments where you have no knowledge of the facts being argued over.

    He’s claiming that legally the IOM is the same as Yorkshire.

    Look forward to your defence of that claim.

  46. Theo,

    > In his book, everything is black or white

    You READ HIS BOOK?

    Andrew M,

    > Thus we infer that Corbyn’s manifesto involves invading sovereign nations and overthrowing their governments. Corbyn isn’t that different from Blair after all.

    Say what you like about Blair, but he didn’t put himself in charge of Iraq. (Maybe he should have.)

  47. Scotland is to all intents and purposes part of the UK. Most people speak English and drive on the left hand side of the road. To suggest otherwise is to be blinded by the neo-liberal world view of borders and international law.

  48. “That’s just semantics” means “You’re right, but only because you’re using words to mean what they actually mean, which I think is cheating.”

    I sometimes get accused of being picky about semantics when I insist on the distinction between Europe and the EU. For some reason, the same people think the difference between the UK and the British Isles is important. Even though it’s the exact same distinction.

  49. Mae Cymru yn bob pwrpas yn rhan o’r Deyrnas Unedig . Mae’r rhan fwyaf o bobl yn siarad Cymraeg ac yn gyrru ar ochr chwith y ffordd. Mae awgrymu fel arall yn cael ei dallu gan y golwg ryddfrydol-newydd y byd o ffiniau a chyfraith ryngwladol .

  50. Although we do not generally seek to do so, in addition to strict questions of lawfulness, in limited occasions we may consider it appropriate to intervene in policy matters where there may be the potential for a direct and adverse impact on UK interests (for example in relation to changes to drug or immigration law in the Islands). Equally, if an Island Law sought to do something fundamentally contrary to current UK principle, or which may be fundamentally damaging to UK interests, we would not consider it constitutionally illegitimate to refuse to recommend the Law for Royal Assent.

    http://www.gov.gg/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=3488&p=0

    If the UK so chose, it could refuse the right to determine self-legislation. In fact it has recently with the abolition of the LVCR loophole. Also the massive VAT discrepancy in the IoM. (and yes, Murphy was instrumental in pointing this out to the mainstream).

    If the finance industry collapsed, where would the CDs turn to? Guernsey is only a few meals away from being an Isle of Wight.

    Amusingly one of Guernsey’s “ministers” is (or recently was)a UKIP member. I’m not sure how that would work with the CDs. Good luck with that Protocol 3 if it were ever to happen.

  51. From my observations whilst on several holidays in Portugal, there are times of the day when the drivers, whether through sunstroke or some other affliction, do not seem to care which side of the road they drive on.

    Therefore, Portugal is to all intents and purposes part of the UK. They often drive on the left hand side of the road.To suggest otherwise is to be blinded by the neo-liberal world view of borders and international law.

  52. “I wonder if an independent Scotland would still be part of the UK on planet Murph?”

    He’d view it as independent right up until the point that the SNP enact their stated commitment to reduce corporation tax.

    Then he’d be making plans to march on Edinburgh.

  53. S2: “In his book” was, of course, metaphorical. I would read his book only if I was paid well to do so; and perhaps not even then.

  54. S2

    No, it means that people can say that the CDs are independent of the UK but only because of the vagaries of how the Crown is perceived within the constitution. There are idiots in Guernsey that bleat on about how King John said this and that. I mean, what? And how the Crown, as presented as the Duke of Normandy, has any real life significance, is beyond ridicule.

    Legally the Crown is quite clearly represented by the Privy Council, therefore all symbolic autonomy must be approved by the UK Government.

    There would be no constitutional fall back if the UK decided to start running affairs in the CDs.

  55. Arnald (aka Laurence Sybian):

    Independence admits of degree. The idiot that you are defending claimed that the IoM was no more independent than Yorkshire. Yet the IoM clearly has much more independence than Yorkshire.

  56. Jersey & Guernsey are both English speaking and drive on the, well I’m not sure actually, and in case are not quite such splendid examples as NZ or OZ or Guyana or indeed Ireland.

  57. Since I haven’t read the piece I can’t be accused of defending anything. You’ll notice I haven’t mentioned Yorkshire (until just then), but there is an implication; if the UK wanted it to, Guernsey could be subsumed into the UK without legal redress. It wouldn’t be pretty for anyone involved, but it would require legal contortions to even mount a contradiction.

    And who would really care?

  58. The City of London is to all intents and purposes a rogue city state which is a secrecy jurisdiction and tax haven. They may speak English and drive on the left hand side of the road but to suggest otherwise is to be blinded by the neo-liberal world view of borders and international law.

  59. Arnald,

    > people can say that the CDs are independent of the UK but only because of the vagaries of how the Crown is perceived within the constitution.

    Really? “Technically independent, but only because of the constitution, so it doesn’t count”? You’re going with that?

  60. > Since I haven’t read the piece I can’t be accused of defending anything.

    Did you not even read Tim’s post? That contains the relevant bit, and it’s what this entire conversation is about. If you didn’t read it, why are you commenting on it? If you’re not defending the one thing that everyone here is taking the piss out of, why are you arguing with the piss-taking?

  61. Hey Arnauld,

    “If the UK so chose, it could refuse the right to determine self-legislation.”

    From the way you frame the proposition, that’s true of every country with a smaller military than ours.

    “If the finance industry collapsed, where would the CDs turn to? Guernsey is only a few meals away from being an Isle of Wight.”

    Relative prosperity and lack of a plan B has no relevance here, unless you think Greece is actually a part of Germany, legally speaking.

    And I forgive you for the slur on the Isle of Wight, where they drive on the right, speak English and recognise the queen as head of state. Just like Australia.

  62. “Arnald

    There would be no constitutional fall back if the UK decided to start running affairs in the CDs”

    Come back and tell us we were wrong if the UK ever does decide to do so.

    Meantime, with different stuff like laws and tax and passports and things you’ll have to excuse us while we think the CDs are different from Yorkshire.

  63. @ Arnald
    When Pakistan invaded India, India fought back, although both recognised HM as Head of the Commonwealth.
    If Murphy’s Curajus State invaded Guernsey I’m sure that you make an excellent Quisling, right up to appearing in front of the Firing Squad.

  64. Sark is to all intents and purposes part of the UK. Most people speak English and drive on the left hand side of the road*. To suggest otherwise is to be blinded by the neo-liberal world view of borders and international law.

    * Pre-emptive anti-pendant strike: okay, yes, people can drive carts. I don’t care.

  65. Arnald:

    “If the UK so chose, it could refuse the right to determine self-legislation. In fact it has recently with the abolition of the LVCR loophole. Also the massive VAT discrepancy in the IoM.”

    Low Value Consignment Relief was a UK law, not a Jersey or Guernsey law. Similarly, the VAT agreement does not represent an Isle of Man law — it was an agreement between the UK and the Isle of Man, which clearly required the consent of both parties to continue.

    “There would be no constitutional fall back if the UK decided to start running affairs in the CDs.”

    Incorrect. An agreed mechanism exists for the Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories — which, as much as Mr Murphy may argue, are not de jure or de facto parts of the United Kingdom — to declare independence following a referendum. This is how territories like the Bahamas and the Seychelles became independent of the United Kingdom; Bermuda held such a referendum in 1995, although independence was strongly rejected.

    I have on several occasions attempted to educate Mr Murphy on the constitutional status of the Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories — there are certainly grey areas, but the relationship is clear enough that comparisons between the Isle of Man and Yorkshire are straightforwardly idiotic.

  66. BiI: In Guernsey they drive down the middle, and sometimes on the pavement, because the roads are so narrow. Perhaps that really does make it not part of the UK…

  67. @ abacab
    Yorkshire is bigger than several countries and has a bigger population than Estonia, Latvia and Luxembourg combined.
    One of my childhood memories is of Yorkshire CCC taking umbrage at the England selectors dropping Fred Trueman for a Test against India, so they dropped the Captain of the England XI (Brian Close) for *their* match against India and won by a larger margin.

  68. @john77

    Down with Neoliberal Lancastrian Sophistry!

    Actually, “Yorkshire Libre” reminds me of the film Passport to Pimlico 🙂

  69. I thought I saw Murphy on C4 news. At least I thought I saw some tanned guy called Christian Guru Murphy. He does not look Irish to me.

  70. Brilliant!

    Jack: The Isle of Man is not part of the UK.
    LHTD: Yes it is.
    Jack: No it’s not
    LHTD: They also have UK passports
    Jack: they do NOT have UK passports.
    LHTD: I think you’ll find they do
    Gary: *Long factual answer refuting LHTD*
    LHTD: But it’s a British passport

    Is there no beginning to the man’s knowledge?!

  71. So Much For Subtlety

    abacab – “Actually, “Yorkshire Libre” reminds me of the film Passport to Pimlico”

    I remember the People’s Republic of Sheffield and thinking that that was half-way to a decent solution for everyone.

    Although Yorkshire Libre sounds more like an alcoholic drink. Presumably it would be beef gravy, thrown in a blender with a Yorkshire puddin’ and some vodka. Which doesn’t sound half bad actually.

  72. abacab,
    Many don’t, including those who came up with our ISO codes.

    I forget the number, but a large percentage of Britons don’t know the full name of the state they live in (they would argue life is too short probably).

  73. Hey, I’m not defending him.

    I think what he’s trying to say is that while the IoM is NOT part of the UK, it should be, because [not sure about this bit], and could be overnight if the UK government wanted it.

    The UK government does not want this because it would be inconvenient for the financial elite.

    So, the IoM is not part of the UK, but should be, so is.

  74. magnusw:

    In fairness to Mr Murphy, I agree with him that an Isle of Man passport is basically a rebadged UK passport: UK residents applying here could traditionally have the Isle of Man variant (and vice-versa), and IOM passports are even printed in the UK these days. The only significant difference is when the passport has the “Manx stamp”, indicating that the holder has no direct connection with the UK or the European Union, removing freedom of residency across Europe.

    Where he (and Arnald) are completely wrong is in the conclusions they draw from the Turks & Caicos affair. In simple terms, the then-Governor alleged corruption and political immaturity within the Turks & Caicos Government and suspended democracy, ruling directly with support from the Foreign Office for a couple of years.

    Whilst the evidence of corruption was largely circumstantial, it was quite convincing: Premier Michael Misick had gone into politics with a net worth of $50,000 and no other visible means of support but had ended up a multimillionaire and international playboy with a famous actress for a wife.

    However, whilst democracy was temporarily suspended, self-rule was reintroduced after a couple of years and in the interim Turks & Caicos continued to enjoy its tax-free status and distinct identity apart from the United Kingdom. In other words, no attempt was made to integrate it into the UK or to force its residents to pay UK tax (or indeed any kind of direct tax) as the UK Government was well aware that this would be unconstitutional and would bring the United Nations down on its neck.

    In conclusion, the incident indicates that a Governor or Lieutenant-Governor can remove an elected local government in case of corruption or the breakdown of law and order, but only temporarily, and most certainly cannot force an Overseas Territory or Crown Dependency to integrate with the UK — as if the UK Government could have done it, I’m sure they would have done it.

  75. IoM
    “The External Relations team is as follows:

    Della Fletcher, Executive Director External Relations
    Sam McCauley, Senior External Relations Officer
    Anne Shimmin, External Relations Manager
    Rachael Huxley and Sara Jones, External Relations Executive Officers
    Tristan Caley, External Relations Officer (Graduate Trainee)
    Carlos Phillips, External Relations Officer.”

    The chap responsible for Guernsey’s external relations is called Steve Wakelin.

    As they are Crown Dependencies, if Corbyn created a republic, presumably they’d get full independence.

  76. The Governor works for the Queen / Lord of Mann / Duke of Normandy, whatever, not for the UK government.

    The Australian version intervened quite famously, and not so long ago, and (lest we forget), the Queen remains able to intervene in the UK.

    Btw, I’m a natural-born Republican who hopes the Monarchy endures forever. Odd maybe, but I don’t think I’m alone in this.

  77. I think Mike Cheshunt must be a ringer simply on the basis of Mike C…unt being too good to be true. It’s like the old line about if Typhoo put the ‘T’ in Britain, who put the cunt in Downham Market (spoiler: it was the Rowntree Trust)?

  78. Murphy’s not being entire straightforward when he claims to be responsible for the renegotiation of the VAT agreement between the Isle of Man and the UK either (although he is so deluded he might genuinely think that he is responsible). The people putting the boot in the most (and to listeners who were in a position to do something about it) were the governments and finance industries of Jersey and Guernsey

  79. Hey Arnauld some fuckwit has stolen your handle and is making ridiculous arguments designed to make you look like a ignorant arsehole.

  80. Fatty

    That’s not entirely true either. The Channel Islands’ pressure came after the IoM adopted a zero-ten corp tax regime which was intended to attract any offshore business. Gsy & Jsy felt forced to follow suit knowing that it would lose them 100s of millions in revenue. The only reason IoM were able to adopt 0% was because of the VAT overstatement.

    It is contentious whether or not more business came in.

  81. “Andrew K: Last time I looked, Market Drayton was in Shropshire.”

    Neo-liberal sophistry; to all intents and purposes it is in Kent.

  82. Philip,

    > Pre-emptive anti-pendant strike: okay, yes, people can drive carts. I don’t care.

    Uberpendantry strike: In fact, people can’t drive cars. You pilot a car. The use of the word “drive” is simply a leftover from when people drove carts, which you actually do drive.

    Jack,

    > a large percentage of Britons don’t know the full name of the state they live in

    Which is a massive pet hate of everyone who lives in NI.

    You know what pisses me off? Firms who say they’ll deliver to “the UK excluding Northern Ireland”. THERE’S NO SUCH THING.

  83. Iliam Dhone said:
    “In fairness to Mr Murphy, I agree with him that an Isle of Man passport is basically a rebadged UK passport … The only significant difference is … removing freedom of residency across Europe.”

    That is a pretty significant difference.

  84. S2,
    I thought “GB” (also “GBR”) was the pet hate, as it excluded Norn Iron? Especially in relation to, for example, the Olympic team?

    I would have thought “the UK excluding Northern Ireland” was okay, if “UK” = “United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”?

  85. Jack,

    Well, I’m sure the Olympic team thing annoys some people who give a fuck about sport, but I don’t. In general, Republicans get annoyed when NI is referred to as “Britain” and Unionists don’t. My reading is that “Britain” has a couple of different meanings anyway: short for “Great Britain” and a shorthand for “United Kingdom”.

    > I would have thought “the UK excluding Northern Ireland” was okay, if “UK” = “United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”?

    Well, I object on linguistic grounds. That area has a name: “Great Britain”. So why not use it? No-one calls Wales “The UK excluding England, Scotland, and Northern Ireland”. It’s stupid language. Same for “mainland UK”: if it’s just the mainland, it is not, by definition, the UK, is it? Call it what it is.

    And you’ve missed the vital bit: delivery to. The reason for using this ridiculous unwieldy terminology is a way for companies to make a false claim: that they deliver to the UK, when they clearly don’t. It’s the same as a Canadian firm saying “We deliver anywhere in North America (excluding the USA and Mexico).”

  86. Premier Michael Misick had gone into politics with a net worth of $50,000 and no other visible means of support but had ended up a multimillionaire and international playboy with a famous actress for a wife.

    Sounds almost French!

  87. It’s the same as a Canadian firm saying “We deliver anywhere in North America (excluding the USA and Mexico).”

    This is a common problem for a few countries though. “France” includes the overseas territories (DOM), and so they use the term “France métropolitaine” to refer to what we call France. But I bet there are plenty of British companies who claim they deliver to “France” but would refuse to deliver to Renuion Island. Ditto for the Netherlands with their overseas territory.

  88. Richard:

    “Iliam Dhone said:
    “In fairness to Mr Murphy, I agree with him that an Isle of Man passport is basically a rebadged UK passport … The only significant difference is … removing freedom of residency across Europe.”

    That is a pretty significant difference.”

    It is, but if I remember correctly the “Manx stamp” only applies to 2000 people; all the rest have sufficient connections to the United Kingdom to get the full EU passport.

  89. “Ditto for the Netherlands with their overseas territory.”

    A bit different there, because the ovesees parts of the Kingdom of the Netherlands are not part of the Netherlands themselves…. Whereas the DOM are very much a part of the Republic of France and have members of parliament and everything.

    It’s actually fairly similar to the UK situation with the Crown dependencies.

  90. S2,
    Yes, but ….. due to cost factors, delivery companies usually divide the UK into:

    – UK, except
    – Highlands and Islands
    – Northern Ireland

    Postage isn’t as there’s the guaranteed flat rate.

    Besides, “Great Britain” is not (quite) the UK minus Northern Ireland.

    Even the LHTD gets confused. Only a single Europe-wide Courageous Tax Area can save us from this irritation.

  91. ID,

    > the “Manx stamp” only applies to 2000 people; all the rest have sufficient connections to the United Kingdom to get the full EU passport.

    So they can get a full EU passport thanks to their connections to the UK, not through being Manx.

    Northern Irish citizens are entitled to Irish passports. Doesn’t make Northern Ireland part of the Republic.

    Tim,

    > “France” includes the overseas territories (DOM), and so they use the term “France métropolitaine” to refer to what we call France.

    Exactly: there is a term for the region, so they use that term. British companies, for some bizarre reason, refuse to refer to Great Britain.

    > I bet there are plenty of British companies who claim they deliver to “France” but would refuse to deliver to Renuion Island.

    I’m sure there are, but that’s a pretty bad analogy. Northern Ireland is not far from Great Britain. And I’m not talking about foreign firms — foreign firms never draw the distinction and are always as willing to deliver to one part of the UK as another. It’s only British firms who refuse to deliver to NI. And yet still claim that they deliver to the UK.

    Hey, I did say this was a pet hate.

  92. Jack,

    > “Great Britain” is not (quite) the UK minus Northern Ireland.

    Great Britain the political entity is; Great Britain the geographic region isn’t (quite).

    > due to cost factors, delivery companies usually divide the UK

    I know, but I’m not talking about charging more for delivery; I’m talking about refusing to deliver.

  93. A bit different there, because the ovesees parts of the Kingdom of the Netherlands are not part of the Netherlands themselves…. Whereas the DOM are very much a part of the Republic of France and have members of parliament and everything.

    Ah, I thought certain parts of the Netherlands overseas territories also had representation in the Dutch parliament.

  94. It’s only British firms who refuse to deliver to NI. And yet still claim that they deliver to the UK.

    That is indeed pretty fuckwitted. Hurrah for comprehensive education!

  95. Pattercakes

    You are fucking boring. You read Murphy more than most people, obviously. That, or you’re the cock that can be bothered trolling.

    Hope you die soon.

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