So, this civilisation is done, shut it down

The human rights lawyer told the Daily Mail:

So, what’s latest on the human rights front then?

The female barrister who accused a married lawyer of sexism for complimenting her on her photo

Sorry?

Yesterday Miss Proudman said she felt compelled to ‘out’ Mr Carter-Silk, who has represented supermodel Elle Macpherson, because he is a senior figure in the legal profession and ‘had a duty’ to uphold laws against sexual discrimination.

Umm, what?

We have reached the point where a lawyer specialising in this very area of the law seems to think that someone saying “Oooh, good lookin’ woman” is sexism and sexual discrimination?

Stick a fork in it, this civilisation is done.

Note that he’s not her boss, this was not a workplace discussion, this was just a comment on LinkedIn.

The row was triggered on Tuesday when Mr Carter-Silk wrote to Miss Proudman on LinkedIn: ‘Charlotte, delighted to connect, I appreciate that this is probably horrendously politically incorrect but that is a stunning picture!!!’

Meaning, I assume, that she had written to him asking him to connect to her.

Responding around nine hours later, she wrote: ‘Alex, I find your message offensive. I am on Linked-in for business purposes, not to be approached about my physical appearance or to be objectified by sexist men.’

101 thoughts on “So, this civilisation is done, shut it down”

  1. Barrister Charlotte Proudman, 27, embarrassed a senior lawyer after he complimented her on a photo and has since been warned about being blackballed by her profession

    Well, yes. Who the fuck would want to work with a woman like this?

    The human rights lawyer told the Daily Mail: ‘I have received messages saying: “You have ruined your career. You have bitten the hand that feeds you. There go your instructions from solicitors.”

    What the hell did she think would happen?

  2. Not unreasonable that someone who publishes private conversations would be shunned by people whose reputation is their livelihood. Suppose someone makes a grammatical mistake in an email to her and it appears on twitter.

  3. Plainly a bitch.

    Equally plainly, she spent money, time and trouble on that mug shot. She’d have done none of those things, and would simply have used a selfie – as I’ve done on LinkedIn for years – if she was uninterested in using her appearance to advance herself. Her response now is a perverted suffragette’s take on cock-teasing.

    She’ll go far, doubtless.

  4. To be fair, the guy was a bit of a dick for complimenting her on her picture, and I can understand why she would get a bit hacked off about it. Although she should probably enjoy it while it lasts, she’ll not be getting any more of these in 5-10 years time.

  5. She’d have done none of those things, and would simply have used a selfie – as I’ve done on LinkedIn for years – if she was uninterested in using her appearance to advance herself.

    Good point.

  6. It takes a while but they get there in the end:

    His wife of nearly 30 years, Jacqueline, 60, declined to comment from the couple’s £700,000 detached Cambridgeshire home.

  7. I think though her legal career might have taken a hit, in the burgeoning field of ‘group rights’ for ‘victimised minorities’ she is likely to have a bright future. Could be derailed when Corbyn facilitates the ISIS takeover though……

  8. > the guy was a bit of a dick for complimenting her on her picture

    Probably, although we don’t know context. Since he seems to have been responding to her connection request, he’s clearly not just some random bloke giving her a virtual wolf-whistle. They already knew each other, to some extent. Complimenting someone you already know on a great photograph is a pretty normal thing to do, actually. We all have photos of ourselves on the company intranet and our ID cards, and pass comment on them from time to time, ranging from “Were you drunk that day?” through to “Oo, nice photo!” (Needless to say, I get more of the former.)

    Anyway, all that aside, what pisses me off is this use of the courts to deal with the problem of someone being a bit of a dick. For fuck’s sake, just throw your drink over him next time you meet or something. Or would that be “assault”?

    Same with the DLT case. Let’s just say he was guilty of doing what he’s been found guilty of. The punishment for that used to be either that the woman slapped you in the face or kneed you in the bollocks, or got her brother or a male friend to punch you — and the police wouldn’t get involved because everyone would agree you had it coming. By criminalising the retaliation, we’ve made the punishments worse.

  9. Ah… the faint desperation of middle age. I know his feels.

    Married Alex Carter-Silk, 57, told Miss Proudman her picture was ‘stunning’

    She’s not, though. She’s a 7. Without the very 80’s-style bowl cut, she might score better. Though maybe not. She has thin lips and her elbows are probably pointy.

    Yesterday Miss Proudman said she felt compelled to ‘out’ Mr Carter-Silk, who has represented supermodel Elle Macpherson, because he is a senior figure in the legal profession and ‘had a duty’ to uphold laws against sexual discrimination.

    Also, she felt compelled to humblebrag on social media by making a fuss over a harmless compliment.

    Silly girl. You can’t do that and expect good things to happen to your career as a barrister. But maybe she is angling for some sort of professional feminist job. Her Twitter suggests this might be the case:

    Charlotte Proudman –
    @CRProudman
    Barrister @MansfieldQC & PhD candidate @Cambridge_Uni researching #FGM #fearlessfeminist because rape, prostitution & pornography are problems of male dominance

    And:

    Women & men have you called out sexist comments/jokes/banter? and what was the response? did you receive a backlash? what are your stories?

    And a wild white knight mangina appears:

    10h10 hours ago
    Darren Barnett ‏@L0rdDenning
    @CRProudman what happened to you is unfortunately only a small part of a bigger issue. If it’s happened to you then it’s happened to others

    Darren Barnett: protecting office-hot Miladies since 1992.

    Anyway, if Charlotte Proudwomyn is trying to get out of the legal profession, it’s not surprising. There’s very little money in it these days for the vast majority of new entrants. There’s a chronic oversupply of graduates and salaries have shrunk to match.

    You could make more money as a window cleaner these days.

  10. “the couple’s £700,000 detached Cambridgeshire home.”

    Is that all? You’d think a successful libel lawyer would own a more expensive house than that.

    Anyway, this woman – I am amazed how completely clueless many people are about how the real world works and how to get along in it. Hopefully she’ll spend the next ten years learning this as she goes around begging for work.

  11. I remember well the first time I got told off for holding open a door for a female colleague. Sometimes you just have to sigh and get on with it!

  12. This is what happens when the closeted PC world of higher education finally meets reality. This woman will have spent X years at Uni behaving exactly like this, having all her prejudices bolstered, constantly complaining about ‘micro-aggressions’ and the like, and she thinks she can behave the same way out in the real world. She hasn’t learnt her lesson yet though, because by going to the press about it she’s only making it worse. Everyone now knows she’s a right little cow and best to avoid at all costs.

  13. Well, it’s not an appropriate comment to make to a professional colleague, unless you know them well enough that you know they will care for your unsolicited [sic] opinion. Equally inappropriate to publish a private correspondence with attribution.

    Both actions are of course legal.

  14. Can’t help feeling that if this woman had been a real man, she’d have taken it up with him directly, rather than splurging it on social media.

    Pistols at dawn, that kind of thing.

    The strategic error was probably mentioning political correctness himself.

  15. “Year Of Call: 2010

    Charlotte has taken sabbatical from practice in order to complete a PhD in Political Sociology at the University of Cambridge.

    Charlotte is an associate tenant at Mansfield Chambers.”

  16. If she was a real human she’d just shrug it off. The vast majority of people reading about this will be completely bewildered by it.

    But a graduate, a lawyer and a SJW? There’s no event in her life, however slight or accidental, which isn’t a catastrophe personally directed at her by a conspiracy of her enemies, in this case men.

  17. From her bio. at Mansfield Chambers in 2010:

    “Charlotte has taken sabbatical from practice in order to complete a PhD in Political Sociology at the University of Cambridge.”

  18. “Charlotte has taken sabbatical from practice in order to complete a PhD in Political Sociology at the University of Cambridge.”

    Fucking hell, she’s 27 and a graduate, meaning she can only have been airing for six years, and has already blagged a sabbatical to do a three year PhD course? The discrimination and suffering she has laboured under must be appalling, poor dear.

  19. Probably, although we don’t know context. Since he seems to have been responding to her connection request, he’s clearly not just some random bloke giving her a virtual wolf-whistle. They already knew each other, to some extent. Complimenting someone you already know on a great photograph is a pretty normal thing to do, actually.

    Yes, if they’d met and chatted before then it makes it look a lot better on his part. If they’d never met, and their only connection was this LinkedIn request, then he comes across as a bit of a Terry Try-Hard.

  20. Now I think of it, a good few years back, a female barrister many years my senior, in a casual conversation and a propos nothing, paid me a very complimentary compliment on my appearance. At the time, all I thought was, “I’d be in there, if I wanted. Which I definitely do not.” And I felt slight pity for her, which I feel rather ashamed of. I don’t think I said anything about it, and the conversation naturally moved on. I’d forgotten about it, till just now.

  21. Jesus. The guy was basically saying that it was a good photo, as in composition, lighting etc. It’s a very good profile picture (and clearly done by pros).

    And yes, her career should be ruined because people don’t want to work with oversensitive arseholes.

  22. Oh, and a few weeks ago, a drunken junior colleague explicitly propositioned me. It was flattering, but would have been more flattering had she been toothsome. My main concern at the time was how she’d feel when she sobered up.

    I like to think I’m a nasty piece of work at times, but what kind of vicious do you have to be publicly to humiliate a hapless suitor?

  23. “I like to think I’m a nasty piece of work at times, but what kind of vicious do you have to be publicly to humiliate a hapless suitor?”

    An ambitious feminist.

  24. > The guy was basically saying that it was a good photo, as in composition, lighting etc.

    Exactly. That’s obvious to anyone who’s ever had a conversation with real humans.

    Perhaps he should issue a statement clarifying. “I would like to clear up this unfortunate misunderstanding by making it clear that it was the quality of Miss Proudman’s profile photograph itself that I was complimenting, not the content thereof. Miss Proudman herself is, of course, about as beautiful as the underside of a 1970s Volvo. I trust that, in the light of this clarification, she is no longer offended.”

  25. Also, since when are compliments sexist? I keep hearing this claim that it’s only ever women who are on the receiving end and men don’t get this. But I was wearing my deadman’s hat at the ASI thing last night and got dozens of compliments from strangers, some of them rather attractive young ladies. (I always do. I’m not that good-looking, but it is a great hat.) Were they picking on me because I’m a man? I have to say, I didn’t feel oppressed.

  26. She could have avoided all this by putting up a photo of herself in a burqa. They’re the reason there’s no sexism in the ummah.

  27. Ditzy little girly barrister does family and human rights law like all the other ditzy little girly barristers.

    Talk about pandering to the patriarchy.

  28. @”Edward Lud
    September 10, 2015 at 10:39 am

    Oh, and a few weeks ago, a drunken junior colleague explicitly propositioned me. It was flattering, but would have been more flattering had she been toothsome. My main concern at the time was how she’d feel when she sobered up. ”
    Where do you work? Are you Brad Pitt?

  29. anon, I am at the Bar – current embarrassment at which is one reason I’m all over this thread. Not rich, though.

  30. He was a king-sized pratt for doing that. (Though to be honest suspect he was talking about the professional aspect of the photography as much as the appearance, doubt he would have commented on a selfie.) People will behave less like pratts if they realise there is a downside e.g. being called out for it publicly. So can’t complain about that aspect of this silly little episode.

    She was a pratt for publishing private correspondence (though more likely than not this served as virtue-signalling of her progressive agenda). People will behave less like pratts if they realise there is a downside to their behaviour, like other lawyers no longer trusting her to behave professionally with private correspondence. I get the feeling though that in her case this will be more than compensated by extra BBC and other media appearances, more writing at the Grauniad and Indy (she seems as much into her sociology and journalism as she is into her law) and perhaps more legal work being channelled her way from the sympathetic sisterhood. So reinforcement learning may not be so strong in her case.

  31. He – You look nice today

    She (who fancies him) ‘giggle’

    ******************************************

    He – You look nice today

    She (who doesn’t fancy him) – sexist pig!

  32. “People will behave less like pratts if they realise there is a downside to their behaviour”

    Try telling that to Big Brother contestants.

  33. I can see her on Panorama, back lit, face in shadow. “Charlotte, tell us about the time a man called you stunning…”

  34. Bloke no Longer in Austria

    When I did jury service recently, I met one of the defending barristers in the car park. He had a really knackered Vauxhall Corsa. We assumed that his wife had borrowed the Range Rover.

    Of course the solicitor was coarse and unfeeling.
    The correct approach is
    “That’s a really nice picture… are your videos on XTube ?”

  35. The only downside he deserves is for his wife to know of it. OTOH for all we know of his marriage it’s not inconceivable she had it coming. Or maybe she didn’t. Who knows? This was a private exchange, and the only other person with skin in the game is his missus.

    Julia, there you go, publicly humiliating me [reaches for whisky and pistol].

  36. A couple of observations:

    Charlotte Proudwomyn is associated with Michael Mansfield. So the end of western civilisation is on the agenda.

    CP is also just following the example of Caroline-Criado Perez, where being a screechy arsehole gets you an OBE.

    Honestly what an obnoxious cunt.

  37. @Edward Lud,

    It’s often said that ladies never ask and gentlemen never tell. Perhaps we should add that if gentlemen ask ladies tell.

  38. The only way to (probably) avoid shit like this is to treat female colleagues with the minimum amount of politeness and avoid contact unless absolutely necessary. Sad, but there you go, that’s social justice for you.

  39. AndrewC Indeed but for them the press coverage for being obnoxious probably counts as an upside? (It is also possible that people who have reached – or fallen to – that particular station in life have been societally selected for a special lack in self-awareness, so are unable to recognise their own prattlike behaviour and hence foresee the attendant consequences. But I think they’re just being cunning exploiters of the media, personally.)

  40. Bloke no Longer in Austria

    Rob

    This happened to me recently. I always pride myself on opening doors, leaving seats on the Tube ( Underground not porn site) etc etc usually I receive a polite response but sometimes get the feminist death-stare.
    This occasion I accidentally ( i didn’t see her, not having eyes in my arse) barged in front of a lady who then gave me the Force 10 for being “unchivalrous” !
    Tart.
    You can’t win.

  41. It’s exactly as AndrewC has it.

    The DM article shows that she makes explicit reference to him being ‘twice her age’. Does that make his remark more sexist? Is her comment not agist?

    Would she have laughed it off if he’d been a 30 year old hottie? (It doesn’t seem like she’s much of a laugher TBH)

  42. S2,

    I get a lot more looks and smiles from women on public transport when I wear a suit. And that’s basically objectification (suit = power/money = good provider). And I don’t care. I’m more pissed that I can’t take them home to let them give me a thorough repressing because my wife might object to it.

  43. It’s exactly as AndrewC has it.

    Indeed. I remember girls at university crucifying guys for being “creepy” for behaving in exactly the same way as the guys who they fancied, for whom their knickers would come flying off.

  44. If she had one iota of common sense, she could easily have shot back with something like:

    “Thanks Alex, glad to see your eye sight’s still just about holding out ;)”

    or something a lot wittier (she’s intelligent, right?), and then thrown the drink over him in private, if she really was so easily offended…

    Simple win win, as she then comes across as someone normal / can handle things.

    You’re right, looks more like deliberate / attention seeking.

    Alastair

    Interesting – I have never been told off (not even a hint of a glare) for holding a door open / similar and I almost always do.

  45. It’s a great photo, isn’t it? All come hither, glance over the shoulder and soft focus.

    A very professional job, which wouldn’t be out of place in Country Life’s Girls with Pearls or the Debutantes’ Year Book.

  46. “And would someone (genuinely) that fragile cope in the rough and tumble of a court room…”

    PF, the only barristers I’ve ever known reduced to tears by a judge were women. And only two of them. Most of them, to be fair, are as tough as old boots. But you make a good point.

  47. Oi you sexist lot, the woman’s just building a transatlantic brand. In the US complimenting non-F&F on their appearances has been a no-no for well over 30 years & I have the scars to prove it.
    However it’s still OK for a bloke to mock a male colleague with a fake compliment, e.g. “nice teeth!”.

  48. Yep, battered in the comments. When even the Independent commenters slaughter you like this, you know you’ve fucked up. But I expect she’ll double down on the victimhood instead.

    Wouldn’t it be fun if people started to post on Twitter her own indiscreet private communications from the past? There must be some. Even lemon suckers must have done or said SOMETHING dodgy in the past.

  49. Sorry, sounds perfectly normal to me!
    1/ Girl gets compliment from guy she can’t/won’t go out with.
    2/ Girl makes great fuss so that everyone knows that someone has complimented her.
    The only worry is that this girl is supposed to be a woman, but clearly hasn’t made it yet.

  50. She’s doing it for everyone, people.

    That article is a fascinating example of how SJWarriors see themselves. She really does see herself as a fearless champion of others, fighting the good fight with any weapon available. She can’t see the reality at all.

  51. 1.The man is a fool. She doesn’t need to turn ugly because she is UGLY. With or without the bowl cut.
    Some of you lads must have incredibly low standards.

    2.Any males anywhere around her should send her to Coventry. Just don’t speak to or acknowledge her existence at all.

    3. On a serious note –this society will be finished if we don’t get busy smashing all the manifestations of the left instead of kissing their arses.

    Eco-freakery, feminism and the anti-racist–ie anti-white crew- all have to be destroyed Do nothing and we will have had our chips. And it will serve us right.

  52. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2335678/Leveson-barrister-Carine-Patry-Hoskins-affair-celebrity-lawyer-paid-220k-16-months-work.html

    Don’t let one bad apple ruin the barrel of “attractive female lawyers” (TM). Let’s not forget the “lawyer on the left” from the Levenson enquiry. She is a real hottie and seemed more than happy with the social media attention.

    Maybe this new one is not really much of a looker and so is not used to the attention.

  53. Any idea if she is related to Mrs Justice Proudman (current High Court judge). The surname is not that common and the ages are about right. Judge is c.64. Daughter c.27.

  54. Some self publicist and evident narcissist who deems because she’s read a few law books, it follows that, she must be far more important than everyone else……

    Retro Mary Quant look, so very Sixties, she has been posed and thus, she is vanity.

  55. I agree with the silly chap: it is a fine photo – though strictly it’s the photographer (and make-up artist?) who deserves the compliment, rather than little Ms Entitlement.

    As for getting The Glare for holding a door open – I’ve had that several times, but then I was working in an esteemed Seat of Learning. My reply was “Sorry, I had mistaken you for a lady.” In spite of its absurdly antique use of “lady” it worked a treat.

  56. “what kind of vicious do you have to be publicly to humiliate a hapless suitor?”

    As JohnnyDub says, a cunt. Thats assuming he was actually making a (very slight) pass at her. If he was just being polite, then she’s a triple squared cunt of the highest order (aka a ‘Hilary’).

  57. Her self-description on the website of the Sociology Department at Cambridge (woe that there should be such a thing) contains an odd little illiteracy:
    “While there has not been a successful prosecution for FGM in the UK despite criminalising the practice in 1985,…” That surely wouldn’t pass muster even at Downside, would it?

  58. And you don’t have to be a feminist to want to see FGM stamped out and perpetrators locked away from young girls (even when they are women themselves). You don’t even need to have a daughter (as I have). It is simply barbaric.

    Re the UK, it isn’t actually a local custom either, is it?. Another to chalk up to our multicultural society.

    Here is Spain, just in case, the girls get sent back to their home country where the rusty blade swingers can get away with it.

  59. And you don’t have to be a feminist to want to see FGM stamped out and perpetrators locked away from young girls (even when they are women themselves).

    But a feminist will probably equate FGM with men making complimentary remarks nonetheless.

  60. To be fair, being a hypocritical low life pretty much seems to come with the territory of human rights barristers and, in terms of her attractiveness: although she’s well below the Amal Clooney band, she’s above the munter two-bagger Cherie Blair band. About average I’d say, and I’m the same age as the solicitor who tried to solicit-her.

  61. ‘Alex, I find your message offensive. I am on Linked-in for business purposes, not to be approached about my physical appearance or to be objectified by sexist men.’

    It’s only the end of civilization if you let it be. All Mr. Carter-Silk has to do is reply thusly and civilization survives:

    “Then please, Missy, by all means do fuck off.”

    It’s not hard to do… Done it a few times myself and I’m still standing.

  62. I appreciate that this is probably horrendously politically incorrect . . .

    This is worse – he gave up and lost the war before it started.

    Never show weakness to these people, never apologize to them unless you’re genuinely sorry, and, for fuck’s sake, *never never never* pre-emptively apologize for anything.

    That’s like running from a cop – they’re gonna attack.

  63. I’ve decided. Although her pics are flattering to her, and although I’m attached and actually have no interest, I want to give her a thorough servicing, make her blue-stockinged ankles sweat, satisfy my contempt by seeing her back arched and her lower lip slacke…

    Sorry, for a moment I quite forgot myself. Funny how this delicately-nurtured daughter of entitlement’s prim vindictiveness has brought out the caveman in me.

  64. 1. Associated with Michael Mansfield: check
    2. Doing a PhD on FGM: check
    3. Took her grandmother’s name,
    instead of her late father’s : check
    4. hyper-sensitive, hysterical virtue-signaller
    who finds comments from men oppressive: check

    Diagnosis: neurotic feminazi

  65. Edward Lud,

    Something I (don’t quite fully) remember from school was a passage along the lines of:

    “She was a classical English Rose, her sweetness and purity of the sort that all men wish to violate”.

    I think that’s what you’re driving at.

  66. Jack C, that’s interesting, thanks. But no, I don’t think it is. I’ve met English roses. Not often, granted, but I have.

    But they’re roses, and she’s…. not. Her meanness goes far beyond maidenly reticence or even school marmish you-naughty-boy-put-that-away-ooh-don’t….stop.

    Yes, I’m angry about this.

  67. Meanwhile, in the real world:

    A technical services office somewhere in Aus.

    Me: has someone had a hair cut?

    Pretty geologist: I just fancied trying something different.

    Me: looks nice.

    At which point pretty geologist gets on with her work and I get on with mine, I have not been outed on Facebook or reported to HR. Just two people interacting quite naturally in the real world.

  68. Well, seems now she’s been outed by the ‘Mail’ as a stonking great hypocrite, as usual. And as usual, the ‘Indy’ has given her all the sympathy and publicity she needs.

    Same old, same old…

  69. Squander Two

    I do care. As an Edinburgher I care passionately that anyone would consider Glasgow to be the greatest city on earth – particularly a person who is not even a born and bred Weegie.

  70. “And as usual, the ‘Indy’ has given her all the sympathy and publicity she needs.”

    Read the comments on her article ? The Indy might sympathise, their readers don’t.

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