My word, isn’t this absolutely disgusting!

The Sweden Democrats’ anti-migrant stance is proving popular among those who oppose the entry of 190,000 refugees into the country this year

A political party, in a democracy no less, offers policies some voters approve of.

How can such a thing be allowed?

27 thoughts on “My word, isn’t this absolutely disgusting!”

  1. Richard Murphy’s dog whistles are superficial and popular. Populism is cheap, easy and, well, popular.

    So I say Richard Murphy and Ukip are disgusting.

  2. So Much For Subtlety

    Ironman – “Populism is cheap, easy and, well, popular. So I say Richard Murphy and Ukip are disgusting.”

    Well I have to admit arguing for more Rotherhams and more 7-7 bombings is not cheap (for the victims), easy (for anyone with a conscience) or popular.

    But it is interesting you think opposing them is disgusting.

    The EU will not long allow the Swedes to vote down the consensus. They will force a ban on any party that rocks the boat. Look at the Belgian parties they do not like. Or the Hungarians. They know they will have the full support of the media in smearing anyone the metropolitan elites do not like. We need a radical change.

  3. Tim – you’ve often called yourself a classical liberal. How, therefore, can you support state restrictions on where people choose to live and work, and whom employers choose to hire?
    Immigration controls are one of the more intrusive forms of statism.

  4. Chris,

    Liberalism does not mean total freedom to do absolutely anything. In particular if giving employers freedom to import and hire Muslims means more beheadings, Paris style massacres, murder of cartoonists and authors, homophobia, holocaust denial, pedophilia a la Rotherham, desecration of 2,000 year old arcitectural gems, abduction of schoolgirls, hate preachers, then – er – not to put too fine a point on it, that immigration is possibly not on balance beneficial to us.

  5. Chris – what Ralph said

    But also – contrary to what some folks seem to believe – being a liberal / libertarian / Christian / Westerner (delete as appropriate) isn’t a suicide pact.

    We want things that are good for us, and we don’t want things that are bad for us.

    Trading with foreigners is good for us. We get stuff, they get stuff, everybody wins.

    Permitting Johnny Jihad and his rapey chums to move next door and have a crack at all the primary school girls in town while they plot their next beheading is not good for us, so let’s stop doing that.

    Hope that helps x

  6. Classical liberalism does not mean that people have a right to move to whichever country will give them the best welfare benefits.

  7. Amazingly, I find myself able to describe the actions and reactions of others without insisting that they must conform to my prejudices.

    I might try to persuade at times, but this tolerance and democracy stuff does actually say that I’ve got to put with quite a lot of what I might not be all that happy with.

  8. ‘Europe’s self-declared “humanitarian superpower”’

    I wonder who the ‘self’ was.

    190,000 (minimum) in one year, in a country with fewer than 10m people. This is like the UK proportionately importing ONE MILLION. They are insane.

  9. By marked contrast, Tim, there are many minority groups who do not believe that they should have to put up with anything they find distasteful and that the majority should be silenced if its beliefs are incorrect, e.g. believing Islam is a laughable cult, dreamed up by an utter git, that is incompatible with western civilisation.

  10. @Rob

    And it’s not as though the (incomplete) integration of the previous arrivals has gone brilliantly. Especially, I’m told, if you’re Jewish.

  11. BiS
    Democracy is more than populism, even in the non-pejorative sense of ‘populism’. Which is why mature democracies observe the rule of law, and have checks and balances to avoid ‘the tyranny of the majority’ that so concerned J S Mill.

    Rob
    The ‘self’ is presumably the state, which is deemed to be a corporate person in the sense that a plc is.

  12. That 190,000 number isn’t the whole story. Once settled they will be entitled to bring in their family and relatives. It’s just the tip of the iceberg.

  13. One day there will be 1% of Sweden in favour of this, and 99% against, and the Guardian will still report the 99% as “far-right”.

  14. “. Once settled they will be entitled to bring in their family and relatives. ”

    Including “cousins”, a term with wide applicability. “Family” has typically been the source of most further immigration in the UK, not usually demands by employers to fill vacant spaces, outside mainly the NHS.

  15. Funnily enough, I read Marine Le Pen last speech this morning. You know, the leader of the populist national front. Boo hiss.

    She said that the problem is not the lack of existing laws of which France has plenty, but the will to apply them.

    Which is why she is against the latest laws which allow mass surveillance by police and co without checks, saying it is an unwelcome invasion of privacy.

    I’m not a fan of hers, but this surprised me and it is where my vote will go next.

  16. “Democracy is more than populism, even in the non-pejorative sense of ‘populism’. Which is why mature democracies observe the rule of law, and have checks and balances to avoid ‘the tyranny of the majority’ that so concerned J S Mill.”

    Bollocks
    The “‘the tyranny of the majority” is simply how those who believe themselves to be the ‘great & the good” refer to democracy when it produces a result they don’t approve of. They have absolutely no objections to tyrannies of majorities when the majority is in their favour.

    “mature democracies observe the rule of law”

    Unfortunately, there’s very little relationship between democracy & law. Law is mostly concerned with protecting vested interests. And there’s little admirable about “mature democracy”. Democracy is vibrant & constantly renewing. “Mature” simply means “with most of the stuffing knocked out”.

    Of course, true democracies mightn’t be the most pleasant places to live. The IQ of any group is often representative of it’s thickest member. But let’s not kid ourselves with what we’re talking about. Our modern democracies are but a parody of the real thing.

  17. I’ll add to the above:
    All systems of governance depend on the approval of the Mum of the guard on the palace gates.
    Whether that’s the King’s palace, the palace of the Tyrant, the Palace of the People or the Presidential palace is immaterial..

  18. From dodgy memory about asylum seekers
    43% of Afghans are illiterate
    16% of Itaqis
    15% of eritreans and Somalis
    5% of sub saharan Africans

    Hard to imagiine these people were political activists, illiterate in their own language.

  19. Monoi
    I’d be tempted to vote FN too, if they ditched their bonkers Poujadist economics: However, I suspect they are simply substituting one kind of anti-semitism for another.

  20. The “‘the tyranny of the majority” is simply how those who believe themselves to be the ‘great & the good” refer to democracy when it produces a result they don’t approve of.

    Not true. Many democrats and libertarians – John Adams, de Tocqueville, J S Mill, Lord Acton, Ayn Rand, etc – recognise the problem of the tyranny of the majority (aka mob rule) as the crucial defect in democracy. The TOTM occurs when a majority actively oppresses a group or individuals. The term does not apply when a minority simply loses a vote on a particular issue. The rule of law, bills of rights, separation of powers, super-majorities, constitutions…all these things are attempts to deal with the problem of the TOTM.

    They have absolutely no objections to tyrannies of majorities when the majority is in their favour.

    You don’t understand. Losing a vote or many votes is not the tyranny of the majority. Using a majority vote to oppress someone — to take away their fundamental rights (eg expropriation of individuals’ property by a socialist government) – would be the tyranny of the majority.

    Unfortunately, there’s very little relationship between democracy & law.

    Without the rule of law, there is little freedom. And without freedom, democracy is hollow – and potentially tyrannical. The rule of law underpins democracy.

    Law is mostly concerned with protecting vested interests.

    How bizarre that you take the classic leftist position! Marx, Foucault and other such third-rate thinkers would be proud of you.

    And there’s little admirable about “mature democracy”.
    … “Mature” simply means “with most of the stuffing knocked out”.

    Not so. A mature democracy is one that possesses the institutional and cultural apparatus to make democracy work. It took many centuries for the West to develop functioning democracies. Simply introducing elections into societies without the supporting institutions and culture does not result in democracy – think of Russia under Putin or Egypt under Morsi, which are/were countries with elections but without the rule of law.

    Of course, true democracies mightn’t be the most pleasant places to live….Our modern democracies are but a parody of the real thing.

    Where is this “true” and “real” democracy to be found? Or is it a fantasy of yours, like some socialist utopia dreamed up by Jezbollah and Owen Jones?

  21. “How bizarre that you take the classic leftist position! ”

    What’s wrong with the classic leftists’s position?
    Of course, one doesn’t have to have the classic leftists’ solutions, does one? Not when one’s not even slightly a socialist. There are other options than Conservative. Or even conservative.
    Out of the current mess, what’s worth conserving?

  22. Bloke in Costa Rica

    Given how many of the commenters here are various Blokes in (non-UK place), it would be more than a little hypocritical were we against free movement of people in general. But adherence to laws and cultural norms go along with that. I have to abide by all the immigration legislation here, which has cost me thousands of dollars over the years. I have to keep my nose scrupulously clean otherwise I’m on my tod. I learnt Spanish, I don’t behave like an arse to locals, and I don’t expect everyone to accommodate my way of life. On the other hand, to a first approximation, all the stranger rapes in Sweden are carried out by Muslim immigrants. I think the host population is entitled to be ‘not all that happy’ with this fact.

  23. It’s quite simple, Theo. A strong classic liberal democracy would protect against mob rule by enshrining key items in a constitution that is difficult to change. The U.S. constitution is a good example of this, whereby the inalienable rights of man are protected and the rest of the document is about limiting state power to enable that protection.

    Mind you, the gentle erosion of the constitution by the successive and increasingly authoritarian Govts, is now having an impact. But it will only take one liberal Govt. to bring it back.

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