Our local SJW calls our attention to this

Hundreds of British Muslims have taken out an advert to highlight their “united condemnation” of terrorism after the attacks in Paris.

The advert, issued by the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) and endorsed by more than 300 of the body’s affiliates, features an image of the Eiffel Tower and the words: “With one voice, British Muslims condemn the Paris attacks unreservedly.

“The barbaric acts of Daesh [Isis] have no sanction in the religion of Islam, which forbids terrorism and the targeting of innocents.

“Muslims have held vigils and donated blood for the victims. It is not the terrorists who represent our faith but brave individuals like Stade de France security guard Zouheir, who risked his life to stop the attackers.”

I’m quite certain that that is how the vast majority of Muslims feel. Just as I’m certain that that tiny fraction that supports Deash reads the existence of the Caliphate differently. Which is rather the rub really.

39 thoughts on “Our local SJW calls our attention to this”

  1. According to the BBC, the Zouheir Muslim hero story is a myth. Otherwise, nice to see. Will they also let us freely debate the nature of Islam without calling for those who insult Mohammad to be beheaded?

  2. “brave individuals like Stade de France security guard Zouheir, who risked his life to stop the attackers”

    Amazing how an incorrect statement persists and travels. We now know that Zouheir was not the person involved in discovering the suicide bombing bastard, but merelt tweeted that it had happened. However because Zouheir is of the Muslim faith and a security guard at the Stade de France his tweet was picked up and gradually transmogrified into a more heroic one.

  3. The barbaric acts of Daesh [Isis] have no sanction in the religion of Islam, which forbids terrorism and the targeting of innocents

    See, this is why people aren’t convinced. The inclusion of the paragraph above makes their statement read more like a defence of Islam than a desire to grapple with the problem that Islamic terrorism has *everything* to do with Islam. Nobody is interested in whether some Muslims think what ISIS does is not Islamic, they are more interested in what moderate Muslims are doing about other Muslims who carry out terrorism in the name of Islam. Does any of these moderate Muslims carry out point-by-point, public refutations of the verses of the Koran ISIS use to justify their atrocities? Or are they forbidden from interpretting the Koran in such a manner (or scared to), and instead are forced to resort to blanket “religion of peace” statements? Because that would explain a lot.

    We wouldn’t have been convinced if ordinary Germans had issued statements saying We condemn the actions of the Waffen-SS whose actions have no sanction in Germany, which forbids the targetting of Jews.

    I’ll be convinced that moderate Muslims believe these people have no place in Islam the day that moderate Muslims protest in large numbers outside the mosques that preach jihad and spend more effort in hounding these extremists instead of defending the mainstream.

  4. [Harun] Khan, [deputy secretary general of the MCB,] said: “Another aspect is some of the hate crimes Muslims are facing in the UK as a reaction. The advert is a counter-measure to tell people that what these terrorists did in Paris does not reflect on what Muslims are like in the UK.

    Yes. And the “hate crimes” should not reflect on what all non-Muslims are like in the UK. But I doubt very much MCB and other religious advocate groups will see it that way and not try and milk it for maximum propaganda.

  5. “…brave individuals like Stade de France security guard Zouheir, who …”

    …as DocBud points out, is a myth. In fact, has as much truth as this holy book they follow. How ironic.

  6. Not sure how MCB really gets quoted as speaking with one voice for all British Muslims either. It is a club for self-selected Muslim *institutions*, and is as it were “centre-right”, though ranging from centre to quite far right. There are plenty of individual Muslims who fall out of its purported mainstream viewpoint – mostly to the secular side or in milder minority traditions, of course. But there are well established hard-line groups too.

    If Conservative Central Office claimed to speak for all voters, or the Church of England for all Christians, we wouldn’t let them get away with it.

  7. It’s interesting that they use the security guard Zouheir as an example of someone risking their life. Social media has made a great deal of this. However, it’s not true, he wasn’t near the suicide bomber. He was certainly part of the team that provided security to the stadium but, as he himself made clear, he heard about the attack from his colleagues. It’s a pity MCB didn’t check their facts better.
    See http://www.snopes.com/zouheir

  8. “… what these terrorists did in Paris does not reflect on what Muslims are like in the UK.”

    ‘What Muslims are like in the UK’ is:

    failing to obey the law on carrying guide dogs in their taxis
    building illegal mosques without planning permission
    demanding that they be hired by supermarkets but don’t have to carry out the serving of alcohol and pork products
    whinging endlessly about ‘Islamophobia’ which often turns out to be a fabrication, and
    pursuing ancient tribal customs such as the targeting of young white girls for sex and beating up gay couples in Brick Lane.

    No thanks.

  9. I would feel a lot happier if they were to also condemn the death penalty on Asia Bibi. After all even Al Qaeda dislike ISIS.

  10. So Much For Subtlety

    This is the Muslim Council of Britain – a bunch of scum if ever there was one.

    It was founded by Iqbal Sacranie. Who said of Salman Rushdie

    “Death, perhaps, is a bit too easy for him his mind must be tormented for the rest of his life unless he asks for forgiveness to Almighty Allah.”

    They are famous for boycotting Holocaust Day, generally condemning homosexuality and Operation Trojan Horse – they were behind efforts to teach Islamism in Birmingham schools.

    Presumably this is driven by the fact that the British government cut off funding in 2007 or so because of their support for terrorism – followed by an end to Saudi funding not long after. It is not as if they believe it.

    The tl;dr version – They are not only scum, they are lying scum.

  11. “I’ll be convinced that moderate Muslims believe these people have no place in Islam the day that moderate Muslims protest in large numbers outside the mosques that preach jihad and spend more effort in hounding these extremists instead of defending the mainstream.”

    Hear, hear!

  12. I’m quite certain that that is how the vast majority of Muslims feel.

    I’d be more convinced, Tim, if the religion of rest-in-peace didn’t rape and murder everywhere it goes, from Rotherham to Raqqa.

    Also what JuliaM said.

    It’s too late for taqiyya. Everybody knows them now.

  13. Islam is not just a religion: it is a political ideology, and an ideology opposed to pluralism and liberalism. ‘Moderate’ and ‘extremist’ muslims have the same aim: an islamic, sharia-compliant world. Where they differ is in methods and in degree. This leads to ‘moderates’ feeling that they can see where the extremists are coming from, even though they disapprove of their methods. (Compare the attitudes of many Irish to the IRA in the 70s and 80s.)

  14. So Much For Subtlety

    Matthew L
    November 19, 2015 at 9:42 am

    Cites CAIR – the Muslim Brotherhood’s American arm. The group that the US government calls a co-conspirator with Hamas. You know, the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. Great. The fact that Stalin hated Trotsky does not make Trotsky a nice person.

    Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t Matthew L a Gay Australian? You know, the sort of person CAIR would throw off a skyscraper?

  15. This is a self appointed shower. What is their connection to the average Islamic that they make statements about what is or isn’t acceptable to such. Their more than dodgy provenance marks them as sacred liars in my book. Their statements are for public consumption only.

    In polls across the Islamic world there is widespread support for honour killings, death to apostates etc. So it is far from clear that the majority of muslims are against extremism or ISIS. Over here there is a shortage of mass muslim demos against terrorism –as compared to spit-at-the-troops soirees. And even if they were strongly against ISIS–if push comes to shove– they will do what their “leaders” tell them to. That is what makes ordinary people ordinary. They will do as they are told. They might have nightmares afterwards about being ordered to cut your head off in some civil war scenario–but they will still do as they are told. As in Germany 39-45 and , for that matter, the rest of history. Ad Nauseam.

  16. SMFS>

    Tut tut, your fellow racists won’t be pleased with you making a glaring error like that. There’s an element of Stalin v Trotsky, if you like, but in that analogy CAIR has said ‘Marx was a fraud’.

    And the fact that CAIR are fairly extreme conservatives and even they condemn ISIS as not part of their religion only strengthens the support for the point.

  17. Yes, the MCB are a right bunch of propagandist bastards.

    I had to deal with them harassing Muslim employees in a previous role – complete lying shits, the lot of them.

    Just like Murphy, if they put out a press release saying the Sun had come up this morning, I’d go outside to check. (Not that it would do me any much good, with the current weather.)

  18. Dave

    “even they condemn ISIS as not part of their religion”

    I don’t think we can take such statements at face value when the doctrine of taqiya permits muslims to lie to infidels in the the interests of islam.

  19. And the fact that CAIR are fairly extreme conservatives and even they condemn ISIS as not part of their religion

    But we know that there is a very distinct difference between what CAIR and the MCB publish for external consumption compared to what they actually believe (as in my previous comment – where the stuff they were sending, unwanted, to email addresses that might belong to Muslim employees made Stormfront look like a bunch of sensible, polite, well-argued points.) Certainly, at the time, the MCB not-really-internal stuff I was seeing was racist, homophobic and politically extremist. I wonder what the actual internal stuff, for the “true believers” (in the cause, not the religion, in so much as these are separate for these folks) was like. CAIR have been caught like this too, although I have no direct experience.

    Whether this has anything to do with Islam, per se, or whether it is just the usual “lobbying organisations are generally a bunch of lying bastards, whose press releases are about as realistic as beauty adverts” and has nothing to do with religion, is an interesting, if rather pointless, debate.

  20. Out of respect, I suggest all future references on this blog to the words below should be amended with the bracketed text as follows:

    Islam (the religion of peace)
    Allah (swt)
    Mohammed – and its derivative spellings (pbuh)

    Further, “British/any other nationality” as a descriptor of an individual Muslim is in almost all cases, apart from a very few, an oxymoron and should therefore be avoided. Muslim is more accurate and should be used, perhaps with a clarification such as Muslim “living in Britain” for example.

  21. The barbaric acts of Daesh [Isis] have no sanction in the religion of Islam, which forbids terrorism and the targeting of innocents

    Define innocent.

  22. The problem with having so many ‘moderate Muslims’ in the country is that, even if it’s true that they don’t approve of violence in the name of Islam (and forgetting the fact that they do little about it), who are they going to vote for in 15-20 years when Islamic candidates with established power bases start appearing? And when, through immigration and breeding, there are a lot more Muslims around? (And bearing in mind how meekly the left caves in to their demands.)

    It’s not violent Islamic revolution that really worries me. What really worries me is what democracy will bring us legally when there is a bigger Muslim population.

  23. “that tiny fraction that supports Deash”

    I thought it was around 10% of British Muslims in polls, higher for young adults?

    Small but not tiny.

  24. Bimla: Which is why they have to lose the vote for good. No more migrants at all. And it must be made too expensive for islamists to have more than two children. That way their numbers will decline along with the native population and no demographic takeover will be possible.

    Cheaper and much nicer than:
    a-civil war
    b-passive acceptance of ending up a despised 2nd (or 3rd) class minority in our own country.

    b-is what the left have planned for you–but strangely they somehow think it won’t affect themselves or their offspring.

  25. No it isn’t. It’s true that this wasn’t a widely-advertised rally, so SJWs like you may say “No-one knew about that rally”. But the point is, as that article says, where are the mass protests from Muslims? Muslims have no trouble getting mass rallies going against cartoons, or Israel, or Charlie Hebdo, and so on. But protests against Islamic violence? Don’t see much of that.

  26. Muslims have no trouble getting mass rallies going against cartoons, or Israel, or Charlie Hebdo, and so on. But protests against Islamic violence? Don’t see much of that.

    Indeed. I can quite understand why you don’t see much of that: as I have ranted before, why do we expect moderate Muslims to condemn Islamic violence when our beloved leaders can’t even bring themselves to call Islamic violence Islamic violence? But we don’t see much of it nonetheless, and until we do, they’ll not be much trusted.

  27. So Much For Subtlety

    Dave – “There’s an element of Stalin v Trotsky, if you like, but in that analogy CAIR has said ‘Marx was a fraud’. And the fact that CAIR are fairly extreme conservatives and even they condemn ISIS as not part of their religion only strengthens the support for the point.”

    This is incoherent garbage even for a SJW like you Dave. What do you think you are saying? CAIR has condemned the Muslim equivalent of Marx? You mean they condemn Muhammed? No? You have a split between two Islamist groups. The fact that the Trots condemn the Tankies is not proof the Tankies are nice people. Or that the Trots are. Both of them tend to say the others are not Communists. Just as the Muslim Brothers say that ISIS is not “really” Islam. Big frickin’ deal.

    Does CAIR support throwing Gay people off buildings? Well they may prefer to throw them off cliffs, and that distinction may matter to Islamists, but to the rest of us it is b0ll0cks. Who cares? They are both Islamists.

  28. “Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t Matthew L a Gay Australian? You know, the sort of person CAIR would throw off a skyscraper?”

    Bisexual, actually, and if you’ve got any evidence that CAIR would throw anyone off a skyscraper I’d like to see it passed on to the proper authorities.

    I have no time for CAIR personally, I think they’re a bunch of apologists for terrorists. However, Tim Newman asked for an example of:

    Does any of these moderate Muslims carry out point-by-point, public refutations of the verses of the Koran ISIS use to justify their atrocities

    and I provided one. There’s actually several different ones, available a short google away.

  29. So Much For Subtlety

    Matthew L – “and I provided one. There’s actually several different ones, available a short google away.”

    Actually no I don’t think you did. This Open Letter is, of course, a result of ISIS attacking the Gulf States. They have demanded their pet ulama respond.

    So they say “It is not permissible to quote a verse, or part of a verse, without thoroughly considering and comprehending everything that the Qur’an and Hadith relate about that point”. Notice what that is not – it is not a claim that the Quran and Hadith do not say what they say. Just that the clerics should be consulted.

    They say “You have killed many innocents who were neither combatants nor armed, just because they disagree with your opinion” which is not the same as saying you should not kill civilians. What does it mean to be innocent? What does it mean to be a combatant?

    They say “There is no such thing as offensive, aggressive jihad just because people have different religions or opinions.” But there is if they do not let you worship as you like – by stoning Gays for instance.

    It is a bit of a step forward but not much of one. What it is really arguing is that the existing monarchies should be obeyed and that violence is for people the Gulf monarchs approve of. Not something anyone can do on their own.

    “Who gave you authority over the ummah? Was it your group? If this is the case, then a group of no more than several thousand has appointed itself the ruler of over a billion and a half Muslims. This attitude is based upon a corrupt circular logic that says: ‘Only we are Muslims, and we decide who the caliph is, we have chosen one and so whoever does not accept our caliph is not a Muslim.’ ”

    So they do not like Takfiris. Big deal. The established states have been arguing this for a long time. It is not a condemnation of terrorism – nor does it provide any sort of basic dignity or rights to non-Muslims and their states.

  30. “It’s not violent Islamic revolution that really worries me. What really worries me is what democracy will bring us legally when there is a bigger Muslim population.”

    This is exactly what we should be worrying about. It is why arguments about the small number of violent extremists are irrelevant. Islam has a particular political nature. I am guessing that Islamic culture and politics is pretty abhorent to most of the people on this blog, even the SJWs. Europe will become more Islamic if muslims are not deported and borders closed to further immigration. It is this demographic change that is the greatest threat to European culture.

    Does any white European want to live in a Europe that is more like the Middle East? I doubt it.

    “b-is what the left have planned for you–but strangely they somehow think it won’t affect themselves or their offspring”

    I don’t think it is that they imagine it will not happen to them, although of course they probably see themselves at the centre of things influencing and being important. I think it is more that they are so corrupt that they simply can’t stop. The belief system they follow is more important to them than the practical fate of themselves, their children or their descendants.

    There is very little that anyone can do about it I think. To a large extent it has already happened. And reactions to what has happened are politically impossible in post WW2 Europe. I think the fate of Europe is sealed.

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