Race, Americans and English

This shot is one of US photographer Donna Pinckley’s ongoing series Sticks and Stones, which pairs interracial couples with the abuse they’ve received, sometimes directly, sometimes overheard. A southern girl at heart (she tells me that she could never move further north than Little Rock, Arkansas, where she lives), Pinckley works in black and white and the couples she depicts include a wide range of ethnicities and sexualities.

This is another example of something I maintain is true, that the UK currently is about as unracist a society as exists or ever has.

I don’t doubt at all that there are racists in the UK. Nor that people who are in such “interracial” couplings have received abuse at some time or another. But my general impression (yes, I’ve been out of both countries for some time but still) is that an interracial couple in the US might still be something that people might remark upon whereas in the UK it would just be part of the passing scenery. Doesn’t stop some remarking upon it as above, but as a general rule it’s not even something that would be all that noted.

I don’t think I’d actually want to have to try and prove this, it is only an impression. Except, well, when you look at interracial marriage rates (or, more accurately these days, who is having children with whom) the UK is vastly further along the road of just not giving a shit about skin colour than the US, or indeed many other countries, is. Can’t recall the numbers exactly but something like 30% of second generation immigrants (and not of all groups) are marrying out. At that sort of rate race becomes just a melanin tinge to the population in a couple of centuries.

30 thoughts on “Race, Americans and English”

  1. Some years ago I noticed a black lad with a pram and his partner was black too!
    I noticed it as being unusual.
    More than 30% marry out in the West Country then.

  2. We are the master unrace(ist).

    Anyone know about Brazil? They are a multiracial society, they might challenge us for that title

  3. @Rob,

    More multiracial certainly, but also from what I hear more rac_is_t. There are, what, 27 officially defined “races” in Brazil?

    And – they marry out at all in the west country?

  4. So Much For Subtlety

    the UK is vastly further along the road of just not giving a shit about skin colour than the US, or indeed many other countries, is.

    Well no. White British people are. Everyone else cares.

    What we are seeing is the disappearance of the British. We will become Jamaica but with worse weather. That the British population has been bullied into accepting this is not something to be proud of.

  5. The fault lies in the British themselves.

    I don’t particularly give a shit what colour the British end up so long as they stay British in culture. And that is what is being eroded far more dangerously. Once a big enough voting block of poisonous cultures and pseudo-religions take hold what we will get is 3rd world shithole status on a plate. Once enough Mid-East imports are given state jobs we will start down the “pay the govt and then pay me and my relatives” road that makes their countries of origin mega-ratholes. Not to mention an entire UN of criminal shithouses bringing us the benefits of Turkish/Albanian/Jamaican/You-fucking-name-it gangersterism. And the religious rapists of course.

    If the British were worth a damn the cultural shite being foisted on us would bring forth a fierce –and if needed–violent reaction. If we don’t do something the days of peace and quiet and traditional respect for others ( now used against us) will be long gone in a welter of imported poison.

  6. “Anyone know about Brazil? They are a multiracial society, they might challenge us for that title”

    I’ve been to Brazil and one of the things that leapt out at me is that while the people are every shade you can think of, all of the people in the advertising images (and I mean ALL) were white as snow.

    A guardian reader would have had a heart attack driven by indignation inside five minutes. Everyone else (including the Brazilians) don’t seem to give a shit.

  7. Where I live (not UK), in most of the black/white pairings there is an obvious ‘trade-off’ going: i.e. very plain (or worse) white person with stunning (possibly much younger) not-white person.

    The ‘black’ bit is an immediate ‘price hit’. Or put the other way round, being able to provide residency rights through marriage increases bargaining power of the other half.

  8. As per Flubber above, you see more non-white people in adverts in the UK than in most parts of Latin America.

    In both India and China there’s a huge cultural bias towards lighter skin. You can buy skin-lightening creams, face-kinis, wide-brimmed hats and long gloves.

    One argument is that light skin is associated with wealth, since you’re obviously rich enough to not have to work outside or perform manual labour.

    Makes one wonder what the rest of the world knows, that the UK doesn’t.

  9. “More than 30% marry out in the West Country”

    What, more than 30% marry out of the family? Surely some mistake!

    (Gets coat…)

  10. Ben S, I see that here in the American southeast. White women are on a higher social tier than black women, in the eyes of some – don’t know how many – black men. Being white makes up for being butt ugly.

    I agree with Timmer, that the end game is chocolate people. Sex, over time, will homogenize race.

  11. I remember having a discussion with some friends who were fretting about the racism that their children were bound to experience as they would be regarded as mixed race freaks. I gently pointed out that of the four of us round the table I was the only one not in an interracial relationship. And that furthermore I was going on the holiday the following week with a different group of 3 couples, where again my husband and I would be the only non-mixed race couple. Not to say that this scales, but clearly not an unusual or remarkable thing.

    Furthermore, if we went back just one generation, my husband and I (the only white couple) would have caused a serious Romeo and Juliet-style fracas as a Scottish Protestant and an Irish Catholic, but as it is – no problem.

    Some things really are getting better.

  12. Only 500 years ago the biggest fine that could be imposed on a member of a City Guild was for calling another member “a Scot”.
    We have indeed progressed.

  13. Propinquity: Britain is a small island with close neighbours and intermarriage between indwellers and incomers has been going on since the Roman invasion, which explains our Celtic, Angle, Saxon, Jute, Dane, French, Greek, Italian, Spanish, Asian, African racial hotch-potch, and a common language which includes aspects of all those languages and is constantly changing.

    It is why it is difficult to define British culture, because it does not exist in a distinct, static state, it is a meld of different cultures and continually updating.

    This is why ‘British’ is often defined by looking backward, to Victorian times for example. Yet British culture was differed to the 19th Century even by outbreak of WWII, and is different now compared to the 1940s and 1950s.

    The British just are not culturally conservative.- good thing too, that way lies stagnation… look at France or Germany.

    Multiculturalists however seek to divide (and rule) society by preventing miscegenation and cultural blending, by promoting de facto cultural and racial apartheid.

  14. ‘Multiculturalists however seek to divide (and rule) society by preventing miscegenation and cultural blending, by promoting de facto cultural and racial apartheid.’

    Indeed. “All cultures have value . . . except yours.”

  15. In my benighted semi rural bit of France the only inbreds seem to work for the council.
    The 10% or so of mixed race couples barely merit a glance.
    And apart from a bit of political protest following Sarko’s veil thing, things seem fairly normal. Muslim couples hold hands, dad carries baby, pushes buggy, patiently pushes the trolley round Carrefour, etc. Pretty normal, in fact.

  16. So Much For Subtlety

    Gamecock – “White women are on a higher social tier than black women, in the eyes of some – don’t know how many – black men. Being white makes up for being butt ugly.”

    Name a Black man with any degree of success who is married to a woman as dark or darker than him. The strong preference of Black men for lighter women suggest that the first people whose consciences need raising are Black.

    “I agree with Timmer, that the end game is chocolate people. Sex, over time, will homogenize race.”

    The end game is racial war in which Whites will lose. If we are lucky we will live like mediaeval Jews in protected ghettos. More likely Whites will simply disappear. Along with everything they maintain and create.

  17. So Much For Subtlety

    John B – “Britain is a small island with close neighbours and intermarriage between indwellers and incomers has been going on since the Roman invasion, which explains our Celtic, Angle, Saxon, Jute, Dane, French, Greek, Italian, Spanish, Asian, African racial hotch-potch, and a common language which includes aspects of all those languages and is constantly changing.”

    I am sure that is a great comfort to the multiculturalists but it is not actually true. The British were more or less the same genetically in 1900 as they were in the Stone Age. There were no great movements of people to these isles until the 1950s. The British were not the result of intermarriage to any significant extent.

    “It is why it is difficult to define British culture, because it does not exist in a distinct, static state, it is a meld of different cultures and continually updating.”

    Yeah so rather than just say British culture is worthless, you claim it does not exist? Clever.

  18. SMFS

    “Name a Black man with any degree of success who is married to a woman as dark or darker than him.”

    Ha ha, very funny…

  19. SMfS does have a point.
    “our Celtic, Angle, Saxon, Jute, Dane, French, Greek, Italian, Spanish, Asian, African racial hotch-potch,”
    If that’s true of Brits, it has to be true of most peoples from most places. Unless they chance to be Aboriginal Aussies or from somewhere else been geographically isolated for a few hundred thousand years. So unless we’re going to say they don’t have a culture either & are looking backward…etc etc…
    Can’t see it as a view that’s going to be particularly popular…

  20. @smfs
    The British were more or less the same genetically in 1900 as they were in the Stone Age.

    Is that so? What about saxons, danes, normans, french ? Why are the English taller than the Welsh and Scottish. How about that the hundred most commonly used words in english are traceable to medieval german or danish (ok pendant, only 98 of them) and thus presumably post-date roman britain (and the stone age).

  21. @smfs – i’m not disagreeing that the last nine hundred years were fairly genetically stable, just that the may have been a couple of genetic discontinuities since the stone age (from just after the romans left to some time after the normans arrived).

  22. ” Name a Black man with any degree of success who is married to a woman as dark or darker than him. ”

    Seriously???

  23. gamecock

    Is this a bit like Mornington Crescent!

    However ineffective he has proved to be in the role, the so called “leader of the free world” might be deemed successful by some measure or other……

  24. So Much For Subtlety

    johnny bonk – “the may have been a couple of genetic discontinuities since the stone age (from just after the romans left to some time after the normans arrived).”

    And yet DNA testing suggests not.

    PF – “However ineffective he has proved to be in the role, the so called “leader of the free world” might be deemed successful by some measure or other……”

    You do know that he admits he only went out with Michelle for political reasons? Because a Black male politician needed a Black wife? All his girlfriends (yeah, if you believe that) up to that point had been White.

  25. “The British were more or less the same genetically in 1900 as they were in the Stone Age.”

    In fact genetic studies show that people with four local grandparents in central and southern England are on average about 30% Saxon.

    “…he admits he only went out with Michelle for political reasons”
    You made that up too. Or copied it from someone else who made it up.

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