This isn’t sexism you idiots

The peer added: “Not because there aren’t some women who can do that but in general terms, when you are looking at averages, women have one third less upper body strength.”
In comments which were expected to prompt allegations of sexism, Lord West said: “I want forces that can win. “And why don’t we have women in the England men’s rugby team?
“Because actually they don’t have the same size, power and all of these sort of things.”

This is a simple acknowledgement of fact.

Only some men have the musculature to be prop forwards/marines. Even fewer women.

Jeesus, if we’re going to forget the basics like this then we’ll be saying that fathers of six are in fact women next.

25 thoughts on “This isn’t sexism you idiots”

  1. “Brian Paddick, the Liberal Democrat politician and former senior police officer, criticised Lord West for holding views on women which had been long jettisoned in policing.

    “Decades ago police had similar concerns about armed policewomen,” he said.”

    Oh, FFS! Apples & oranges, there…

    They shoot criminals, Brian, not batter them with the bloody gun!

    Not for nothing the old saying “God made man, but Samuel Colt made them equal”.

  2. So Much For Subtlety

    80 pound weenies make better soldiers – as long as they are men – than any star female athlete. Being a soldier relies, above all else, on feelings between men. You cannot have those feelings among mixed groups and especially not when some of the squad is sleeping with some of the rest of the squad.

    Every war America has fought since Panama has had women “soldiers” sit down, refuse orders and cry. Not one of them has been charged with anything. Because we all know they aren’t real soldiers. So we don’t treat them like real soldiers. If anyone wants female soldiers charged with disobeying orders and cowardice please let me know.

    Physical fitness is only half of it.

  3. SMFS:“If anyone wants female soldiers charged with disobeying orders and cowardice please let me know.”

    Me, me!

    I believe in true equality, not lesser standards for some to ensure a nice diverse mix on the battlefield.

  4. So Much For Subtlety

    JuliaM – “They shoot criminals, Brian, not batter them with the bloody gun!”

    They don’t even do that. There are dozens of stories from all over the world of female police officers being too weak and too intimidated to do their job properly. Occasionally costing a male officer his life.

    Women do not make good police officers and we should stop pretending otherwise. They make worse prison guards of course. A lot of girls like a thug after all.

  5. So Much For Subtlety

    Incidentally, the New York Fire Department accepted a woman candidate even though she failed the physical. She lasted ten days before being so badly injured she had to go out on disability.

    Remember women’s soccer is the third most dangerous sport in America.

  6. ” … she had to go out on disability.” My memory is imperfect, but don’t I recall that she hurt herself in doing something mundane: getting out of a vehicle, or something like that?

  7. So Much For Subtlety

    dearieme – “My memory is imperfect, but don’t I recall that she hurt herself in doing something mundane: getting out of a vehicle, or something like that?”

    Yep.

    A female firefighter who was allowed to graduate the Fire Academy despite failing physical tests has already gone out on medical leave — just 10 days into the job, The Post has learned.

    Probationary firefighter Choeurlyne Doirin-Holder injured herself Monday while conducting a routine check of equipment at Queens’ Engine 308 in South Richmond Hill. Getting off the truck, Doirin-Holder missed a step and landed on her left foot, suffering a fracture, sources said.

    It was her second shift after a transfer from Engine 301. In training for a hazmat assignment, officers found her struggling to perform the required tasks.

    Firefighters called the tripping incident embarrassing — and alarming.

    “If you’re going to get hurt in the firehouse checking a rig, what would happen at a fire?” an insider asked.

    On Nov. 6, Doirin-Holder celebrated her FDNY graduation as one of four new female Bravest, bringing the number of women to 49 — an all-time high in the FDNY’s 150-year history.

    But Doirin-Holder’s competence was questioned by sources familiar with her training. They said academy instructors let her pass the Functional Skills Test, a rigorous obstacle course of job-related tasks, even though she had failed to complete it in the required 17 minutes and 50 seconds or under.

    In addition, when she failed to finish a 1.5-mile run in 12 minutes or less — even after the course was shortened — she was allowed to demonstrate aerobic capacity on a StairMaster machine under watered-down requirements enacted by FDNY Commissioner Daniel Nigro.

    Doirin-Holder, who turns 40 this month, is one of 282 “priority hires” passed over in 1999 and 2000. Federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis ordered they must get preference as victims of past discrimination against minorities.

    It was Doirin-Holder’s third attempt to pass the academy. She failed midway through an academy class in 2013 and returned to her former job as an EMT. Two other female priority hires in that class did well.

    Doirin-Holder started another class in early 2014 but dropped out because of an injury. The FDNY then gave her a desk job and kept her on the payroll at top firefighter salary, $76,488. She made $81,376 with overtime in 2014 and entered her third class this summer.

    Since she was injured on duty, she is eligible for a disability pension that would pay three-quarters of her annual salary, tax-free, if deemed unfit to return.

    In an online FDNY forum, firefighters fumed at the preferential treatment.

    “If you can’t meet the standards, you are a danger to yourself, the public and most importantly everyone operating on the fire ground who is doing their job,” one wrote.

    The FDNY said it won’t discuss personnel or medical matters.

    Choeurlyne? Seriously? Although if someone offered me a tax-free $60,000 a year retirement package ….. well it would be a tough choice. Still if she wants to do something with the rest of her life, no doubt she will be a priority hire for the Marines.

  8. I have no problem at all with women on the front line… but only as equals; that’s my test.

    If you can’t throw a hand – grenade far enough to avoid killing yourself and your comrades then you have probably just failed the above test.

  9. If you say no because she is she, then it is discrimination. If you say no because he failed the physical then it isn’t.

  10. OK, let’s have a look at all the bodyguards of famous women like, oh I dunno, Hilary Clinton.

    All those Secret Service girls, little mousy intellectuals, armed tot he teeth.

    Or perhaps that isn’t the case? Perhaps they’re all ex-Marines, about 6 foot 4 and full of muscle?

  11. @ SMFS
    Surely you mean 8 stone (as in the start of the Charles Atlas course) not 80 pounds? 8 stone is the size of a Cox or one of the smaller Scrum Halves: 80 pounds would be in constant danger of overbalancing when carrying a full load.

  12. The average man has more upper body strength than 99.7% of women.

    Interesting statistic. Got a reputable source for it by any chance?

  13. FFS, Doirin-Holder wasn’t discriminated against because she was a minority, she was discriminated against becase she was a majority – the majority of the population without the physical physique to be a fire fighter.

  14. So Much For Subtlety

    john77 – “Surely you mean 8 stone (as in the start of the Charles Atlas course) not 80 pounds?”

    8 stone would be better, but no, I mean 80 pounds. A weak man is a vastly better soldier than a strong woman. A strong woman, in fact, can wear the uniform but never be a soldier.

    Remember 80 pounds is probably not far off the average Vietnamese soldier. They can do it.

  15. @SMFS
    The “full load” for a British Soldier is 145 lbs – you only need a few degrees off vertical for that to overebalance an 80lb soldier.
    I have no idea how much a Vietnamese soldier carries.

  16. Next time I’ve failed to argue competently that my rank and position should excuse me from standing stag, I’d just like to say that I’d rather my oppo was a woman like Michelle Norris MC or Kylie Watson MC (as examples) than an armchair general like SMFS.

    Not just because they are less ugly than he undoubtedly is (and, for fairness, than I am) but because they are both capable of pushing rounds down an active two way range such I doubt he is. And I’m sure he has never done.

    For fairness, again, I’ve only ever had to do it once. That’s why I usually get out of standing stag.

  17. So Much For Subtlety

    Surreptitious Evil – “Not just because they are less ugly than he undoubtedly is (and, for fairness, than I am) but because they are both capable of pushing rounds down an active two way range such I doubt he is. And I’m sure he has never done.”

    And this boys and girls is an intellectually dishonest argument we have prepared earlier. SE knowing, of course, that he is wrong. Because if he was right, he would argue his case. He doesn’t. He smears. He tries for his usually personal attack. Because he knows he is wrong and he hates me for pointing the truth out to him.

    Meh.

    The two women he mentions were not actually shooting at anyone so, aside from his complete ignorance of what I may or may not have been doing with my life, much less what I look like, it is unlikely that he knows what anyone’s shooting abilities are.

  18. So Much For Subtlety

    Surreptitious Evil – “I’d just like to say that I’d rather my oppo was a woman like Michelle Norris MC or Kylie Watson MC (as examples) than an armchair general like SMFS. ”

    I don’t usually agree with the Brass, but what the hell.

    Admiral Lord West of Spithead, hey? F*cking armchair Admiral. What would he know? Let’s take SE’s word for it instead.

  19. So Much For Subtlety

    Surreptitious Evil – “I’d just like to say that I’d rather my oppo was a woman like Michelle Norris MC or Kylie Watson MC (as examples) than an armchair general like SMFS. ”

    Good for you. I notice that Ms Norris appears to be the only member of the Royal Army Medical Corp to have got the MC during the Iraq War. For treating a wounded NCO in his vehicle. Then *helping* to drag him to safety. Isn’t that an interesting word? Helping. Anyway they came under fire. At night. With snipers, you know, firing in her general direction.

    I don’t want to belittle anyone’s achievements. That would be morally reprehensible. And I am sure SE would agree we do not have a High Command and a political leadership that would debase medals by handing them out for political reasons and to appease the feminists. So perhaps SE would agree, then, that no male medic in Iraq ever did anything quite so brave as help pull a soldier to safety while people without night vision goggles or the like shot in their general direction? Not one.

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