The peer added: “Not because there aren’t some women who can do that but in general terms, when you are looking at averages, women have one third less upper body strength.”
In comments which were expected to prompt allegations of sexism, Lord West said: “I want forces that can win. “And why don’t we have women in the England men’s rugby team?
“Because actually they don’t have the same size, power and all of these sort of things.”
This is a simple acknowledgement of fact.
Only some men have the musculature to be prop forwards/marines. Even fewer women.
Jeesus, if we’re going to forget the basics like this then we’ll be saying that fathers of six are in fact women next.
“Only some men have the musculature to be prop forwards/marines. Even fewer women.”
And fewer men in future, the way things are going…
“Brian Paddick, the Liberal Democrat politician and former senior police officer, criticised Lord West for holding views on women which had been long jettisoned in policing.
“Decades ago police had similar concerns about armed policewomen,” he said.”
Oh, FFS! Apples & oranges, there…
They shoot criminals, Brian, not batter them with the bloody gun!
Not for nothing the old saying “God made man, but Samuel Colt made them equal”.
80 pound weenies make better soldiers – as long as they are men – than any star female athlete. Being a soldier relies, above all else, on feelings between men. You cannot have those feelings among mixed groups and especially not when some of the squad is sleeping with some of the rest of the squad.
Every war America has fought since Panama has had women “soldiers” sit down, refuse orders and cry. Not one of them has been charged with anything. Because we all know they aren’t real soldiers. So we don’t treat them like real soldiers. If anyone wants female soldiers charged with disobeying orders and cowardice please let me know.
Physical fitness is only half of it.
When they don’t have a gun, Brian, this sort of thing happens
SMFS:“If anyone wants female soldiers charged with disobeying orders and cowardice please let me know.”
Me, me!
I believe in true equality, not lesser standards for some to ensure a nice diverse mix on the battlefield.
JuliaM – “They shoot criminals, Brian, not batter them with the bloody gun!”
They don’t even do that. There are dozens of stories from all over the world of female police officers being too weak and too intimidated to do their job properly. Occasionally costing a male officer his life.
Women do not make good police officers and we should stop pretending otherwise. They make worse prison guards of course. A lot of girls like a thug after all.
Incidentally, the New York Fire Department accepted a woman candidate even though she failed the physical. She lasted ten days before being so badly injured she had to go out on disability.
Remember women’s soccer is the third most dangerous sport in America.
” … she had to go out on disability.” My memory is imperfect, but don’t I recall that she hurt herself in doing something mundane: getting out of a vehicle, or something like that?
dearieme – “My memory is imperfect, but don’t I recall that she hurt herself in doing something mundane: getting out of a vehicle, or something like that?”
Yep.
Choeurlyne? Seriously? Although if someone offered me a tax-free $60,000 a year retirement package ….. well it would be a tough choice. Still if she wants to do something with the rest of her life, no doubt she will be a priority hire for the Marines.
Yep she was doing.a vehicle check.
I have no problem at all with women on the front line… but only as equals; that’s my test.
If you can’t throw a hand – grenade far enough to avoid killing yourself and your comrades then you have probably just failed the above test.
The average man has more upper body strength than 99.7% of women.
If you say no because she is she, then it is discrimination. If you say no because he failed the physical then it isn’t.
OK, let’s have a look at all the bodyguards of famous women like, oh I dunno, Hilary Clinton.
All those Secret Service girls, little mousy intellectuals, armed tot he teeth.
Or perhaps that isn’t the case? Perhaps they’re all ex-Marines, about 6 foot 4 and full of muscle?
@ SMFS
Surely you mean 8 stone (as in the start of the Charles Atlas course) not 80 pounds? 8 stone is the size of a Cox or one of the smaller Scrum Halves: 80 pounds would be in constant danger of overbalancing when carrying a full load.
Interesting statistic. Got a reputable source for it by any chance?
FFS, Doirin-Holder wasn’t discriminated against because she was a minority, she was discriminated against becase she was a majority – the majority of the population without the physical physique to be a fire fighter.
john77 – “Surely you mean 8 stone (as in the start of the Charles Atlas course) not 80 pounds?”
8 stone would be better, but no, I mean 80 pounds. A weak man is a vastly better soldier than a strong woman. A strong woman, in fact, can wear the uniform but never be a soldier.
Remember 80 pounds is probably not far off the average Vietnamese soldier. They can do it.
@SMFS
The “full load” for a British Soldier is 145 lbs – you only need a few degrees off vertical for that to overebalance an 80lb soldier.
I have no idea how much a Vietnamese soldier carries.
But but but … what about Charlie’s Angels…
These are the sorts of things we’ll be arguing about when the Mullahs nuke us.
Next time I’ve failed to argue competently that my rank and position should excuse me from standing stag, I’d just like to say that I’d rather my oppo was a woman like Michelle Norris MC or Kylie Watson MC (as examples) than an armchair general like SMFS.
Not just because they are less ugly than he undoubtedly is (and, for fairness, than I am) but because they are both capable of pushing rounds down an active two way range such I doubt he is. And I’m sure he has never done.
For fairness, again, I’ve only ever had to do it once. That’s why I usually get out of standing stag.
Surreptitious Evil – “Not just because they are less ugly than he undoubtedly is (and, for fairness, than I am) but because they are both capable of pushing rounds down an active two way range such I doubt he is. And I’m sure he has never done.”
And this boys and girls is an intellectually dishonest argument we have prepared earlier. SE knowing, of course, that he is wrong. Because if he was right, he would argue his case. He doesn’t. He smears. He tries for his usually personal attack. Because he knows he is wrong and he hates me for pointing the truth out to him.
Meh.
The two women he mentions were not actually shooting at anyone so, aside from his complete ignorance of what I may or may not have been doing with my life, much less what I look like, it is unlikely that he knows what anyone’s shooting abilities are.
Surreptitious Evil – “I’d just like to say that I’d rather my oppo was a woman like Michelle Norris MC or Kylie Watson MC (as examples) than an armchair general like SMFS. ”
I don’t usually agree with the Brass, but what the hell.
Admiral Lord West of Spithead, hey? F*cking armchair Admiral. What would he know? Let’s take SE’s word for it instead.
Surreptitious Evil – “I’d just like to say that I’d rather my oppo was a woman like Michelle Norris MC or Kylie Watson MC (as examples) than an armchair general like SMFS. ”
Good for you. I notice that Ms Norris appears to be the only member of the Royal Army Medical Corp to have got the MC during the Iraq War. For treating a wounded NCO in his vehicle. Then *helping* to drag him to safety. Isn’t that an interesting word? Helping. Anyway they came under fire. At night. With snipers, you know, firing in her general direction.
I don’t want to belittle anyone’s achievements. That would be morally reprehensible. And I am sure SE would agree we do not have a High Command and a political leadership that would debase medals by handing them out for political reasons and to appease the feminists. So perhaps SE would agree, then, that no male medic in Iraq ever did anything quite so brave as help pull a soldier to safety while people without night vision goggles or the like shot in their general direction? Not one.