And the biggest political surprise of the day is?

Hillary Clinton
for the Democratic
Nomination
Voters have the chance to choose one of
the most broadly and deeply qualified
presidential candidates in modern history.

The New York Times editorial board comes out for Hillary.

My word, isn’t that just the biggest political surprise ever?

43 thoughts on “And the biggest political surprise of the day is?”

  1. Proof, if needed: the liberal media establishment is filled with the morally blind, the bought, the credulous and the brain dead.

  2. That’s not limited to the “liberal” (I loath the American abuse of that word) media – there’s neither sense nor decency throughout the American established media (which includes HuffPo etc.)

    You have to go to the online fringes on either extreme for evidence and thought, and even, nowadays & unfortunately, Breitbart is heading towards the ritual denunciation and the pandering to the dimmest of the audience.

  3. “Voters have the chance to choose one of
    the most broadly and deeply qualified
    presidential candidates in modern history.”

    It would seem to be code for “better qualified than Obama was”. Hell, she’s less qualified than Reagan, Bush the Elder, Slick Willie, Bush the Younger, Mitt Romney, and probably a bunch more. She failed the bar exams in DC, was sacked from an early job for being an utter liar, became the bagman for her husband’s corruption in Arkansas, got a safe senate seat on the grounds of being his wife, and Sec State ditto, a job at which she seems to have been deeply incompetent, treasonous and corrupt. She’s never had an executive job in her life. She’s so odious that the coarse, preposterous Trump seems to me a better bet.

  4. Re: dearieme … Bravo

    Surely the Dems can’t nominate her, when she is bang to rights on the email issue.

    Are the FBI and the DoJ going to hide this, and prove conclusively that the US is a banana republic?

  5. Mrs Clinton has “served” in high office, but has accomplished nothing significant in them. She has “answered” all the questions posed to her about her various scandals without ever satisfying the truth. She has a record of “success” in lining her pockets at the public trough. Yes, she is eminently qualified according to the discerning New York Times,

    The more interesting question for me is whether she will “serve” in prison. Corrupt politics in the US Department of Justice suggest she will not, even though she is appears to be eminently qualified for that position as well.

  6. I’m still hoping that Hillary’s Hiver will lead to her taking all the bets (at short odds) on her to win the nomination and then pulling out of the race.

    You want a decent bet, stick a tenner on O’Malley to be the next POTUS. Bernie’s a joke, HIllary’s surely unelectable, so in a few weeks O’Malley will step forwards and win the nomination by default. He ought to then beat Rubio, I would assume. At 250-1 that’s a steal.

  7. The job is becoming too big.

    The population is 320 million. You are the “leader of the free world”. Add in all this Executive Order shenanigans, and you’re looking for A Massive Personality. And they’re all twats.

    All countries should be run by a variation on John Major; beautiful manners, glasses, interested in pensions.

    Celeb culture is taking us ever further from that.

  8. The thing is, even if I were a “center-left” U.S. voter whose policy preferences were closer to Clinton’s than any of the other candidates, I just don’t see how I could possibly bring myself to vote for her. I’d have to vote for O’Malley or Sanders, or possibly even Trump.

    I mean what the fuck do these people think about Benghazi? They can’t possibly believe the obvious bullshit about that youtube video, and they must surely know deep down that she has lied about the affair from the very beginning. How else do they explain it, or do they just avoid thinking about it?

    Even if I were a lefty, I couldn’t possibly vote for her.

  9. As a “center-left” US voter*, this is the worst Democratic field I’ve ever seen. As I’ve stated before Hilary has huge trust issues thanks to previous scandals. Sanders has grand, expensive, plans which just aren’t feasible. O’Malley is simply who?

    In the Republican party there are more contenders but the only one I could consider voting for, Paul, won’t win like his father. Trump needs to go back to his Atlantic City rat hole casino. The remainder that I’ve bothered to look at are the typical “government doesn’t work and we’ll prove it” crowd who should get no closer to lawmaking than a Post Office janitor.

    My two biggest concerns are energy policy and primary education.

    Oil is too valuable as a raw material to continue burning it at the rate we have which as always means that Republicans and drill, baby, drill are out. Wind and solar are niche supplies that aren’t feasible for a stable national grid so Sanders and O’Malley are out.

    Primary and secondary education is no better. The push for everyone to go to college makes absolutely no sense unless your business is running a college. Our high schools need to be changed so that it is possible to get a decent job without going to college. Vocational education needs to be returned to our high school systems so that a plumber, electrician, mechanic…can learn the basics of their career without huge debts. For some reason it now requires a master’s to teach kindergartners 123 and ABC now which makes absolutely no sense.

    For me Hilary is just another flawed candidate. I would vote for her over almost all of the Republican candidates as a less worse option but that is it. At this point I am far more concerned with the House and Senate races to try to counteract whatever idiot ideas whoever become POTUS tries to implement.

    *I would guess that of the votes I have cast for all offices 2% are for Republicans or Green, 5% are for Libertarians, with the remaining 91% going to Democrats as the least worst option.

  10. @John Fembup

    And Republicans will vote for the same horse if it runs as a Republican.

    For some reason voters look more at the letter following the name that the issues a candidate proposes. Personally the Republican candidate almost always has a platform that I can’t support which is why they rarely get my vote.

  11. “Oil is too valuable as a raw material to continue burning it at the rate we have which as always means that Republicans and drill, baby, drill are out. ”

    Market says no. What is it, $30 a barrel right now? Ain’t as valuable as all that.

  12. Oil is too valuable as a raw material to continue burning it at the rate we have which as always means that Republicans and drill, baby, drill are out. Wind and solar are niche supplies that aren’t feasible for a stable national grid so Sanders and O’Malley are out.

    Fascinating. So Hillary has some kind of plan that’s going to reduce the rate at which the US burns oil? I must have missed that. And as far as I know, Hillary is no less enthusiastic about green energy boondoggles than any other Democrat. She’s promised to install (raises pinky to corner of mouth) half a billion solar panels by the end of her first term. You are either very misinformed or you’re just bullshitting us.

  13. SE: “Deeply” qualified? She’s been an abysmal failure at everything she’s ever done.”

    The most dangerous thing to the Status Quo in the US would be an efficient, capable, and popular President.
    It would mean that the whole cosy system of padded cushions and careers would collapse, because (s)he would break the Deadlock, and in the course of things would expose how rotten to the core the former “Land of the Free” has become.

    Clinton has the proper hallmarks of the perfectly…groomed.. Candidate. Trump is a wildcard, but he’s been set up to lose.

    Call it a hunch, but unless there’s a landslide victory by the Republicans, there’s going to be a surprise or two by the electoral college.. They’ve always been the Ace up the sleeve in the system..

  14. As we all know current markets can’t tell us what oil will be worth in 10 years. The break even cost for shale oil was $60 a barrel a few years ago and while I’m sure that the costs have come down as production increased I doubt that it is currently profitable. Tar sands have a had a higher production cost traditionally so I doubt they are making a profit either. The suggestion that Saudi Arabia has maintained production to hurt Iran and their arms dealer Russia is plausible enough that it can be added to the debate.

    Both Sanders and O’Malley are both in favor of changing the national grid to be more like Scotland is now. While solar and wind can be a small part of the overall energy solution without utility scale storage the can’t form the basis of a stable grid. Therefore I can’t support either candidate. Sanders and O’Malley both offer social programs that sound good

    The general position of Republicans is drill, baby, drill. Pump and sell as fast as possible no matter what the current market price is. Only and idiot would think that repealing the ban on crude oil exports at a time when prices are the lowest in years is a good idea. While I am not debating if the ban was good on not repealing it now is something only a moron would do. As far as I know none of the Republican candidates are against this move to deplete an important national resource. Part of my reason for this view is that I have read about how Britain pumped the North Sea as close to dry as possible while oil prices were low during the 90s and I do not want to see the same mistake made here.

    This leaves me, at least on the topic of energy, unable to support any current candidate. As I have already made my case against Hilary I do not understand why I should have to bring up additional points as to why I don’t want to vote for her.

    In my experience Republicans tend to make stupid economic mistakes that have led to the high inflation of the 70s, the SnL crash of the 80s, and the crash of 2008. Additionally I do not believe that there is any reason that investment income should be taxed and a rate far lower than income made though wages. This means that, with rare exceptions, I will not vote for a Republican candidate for national office. As I stated before I would vote for Hilary as the least bad option over any Republican candidate. Rand Paul is the one lone exception as I do not agree with many of his policies either but, like his father, I respect him.

    As the stated question is what “center-left” US voter would vote for Hilary I have tried to lay out the scenario in which I would. I thought I had made it clear that a total of 0 candidates appeal to me. In that case, just like Obama vs Romney or McCain, it is an attempt to pick the lessor evil. In my opinion Bush III, Christie, Cruz, Fiorina, Huckabee, Rubio, Santorum and Trump will be far worse overall than any new scandal Hilary gets into. I don’t know enough about Carson, Gilmore or Kasich to comment on them and will not bother to learn more unless they become serious contenders.

    Just in case it isn’t clear I don’t want to vote for Hilary. She is simply, in my opinion, the 2nd least worst candidate for the future of the country that I have taken time to research.

  15. I just realized how long that was. Sorry for so many words. Funny how we talk more about bad things in life and this election is looking terrible.

  16. The best solution for US energy policy us to frack, baby, frack. Also isn’t K-12 policy a state issue, not a federal one?

  17. If she is charged over email etc then o think Obama would be able to pardon her as he leaves, he may feel screwing her presidential future is the bedtime he can hope for as she’s too well connected for jail time so a nod and a wink to charge her with a get out of jail card may be the best he can hope for

  18. The short term solution is to frack. Even if the general public were to suddenly understand how radiation actually works, it will still take years to build the needed power plants. Solar and wind have a small part to play with current technology but can’t supply what we need without large scale storage. As with nuclear storage, it will take years to put in place, assuming the technology were available today which it isn’t. Any rational energy policy should work towards a mixed supply.

    Crude oil is also a strategic resource. Bush II’s military adventures consumed an estimated 330,000-360,000 barrels a day, almost double that of his father’s adventures. Ensuring a stable domestic source should be a major goal for any Commander-in-Chief. Pumping as much as possible, as fast as possible, to sell to the world at low prices makes as much sense as not maintaining operational blast furnace capacity strategically.

    The federal government decided to involve itself in primary education. It might be a good idea if it went back to the states. If no child is left behind then no child can prosper either. Additionally different states have different economic bases so a standard national curriculum for all students makes no sense.

  19. And Republicans will vote for the same horse if it runs as a Republican.

    If that was true, we’d be talking about the re-election of President Romney. In reality, he lost because Republicans just couldn’t bring themselves to hold their nose and vote for him.

    Trump is the only candidate who matters. None of the others are offering anything but more of the same, which means economic and social collapse and civil war within a decade. I doubt Trump could prevent that either, but at least there’s a slim chance.

    And the mere fact that anyone is seriously considering voting for a thing like Clinton just shows how desperate the situation is.

    America is done. The only remaining question is how it ends.

  20. When you insult half of the electorate it’s hard to win. After the video from his private fundraiser I’m surprised he even got 30% nationally.

    Trump I’ve never liked from what I’ve seen of him going back to the 80s. My guess is he would actually be a far better POTUS than I expect but there is no way he can gain my vote this election. Even if he were to support every position I do I have a far worse opinion of him than everyone else in the field. My biggest hope if he does win is that he is so bad the entire system shifts.

    America isn’t done. The country requires major changes. Ever since Reagan declared “Morning in America” countless terrible policy mistakes have been made but they are possible to overcome. I will grant that at least Reagan was able to learn from his mistakes but the damage is done. What I find funny is that an America is done comment is made on a British blogger’s site when Britain lost 2 empires and still exists.

  21. So Much For Subtlety

    Liberal Yank – “As we all know current markets can’t tell us what oil will be worth in 10 years.”

    I disagree. I think the markets have a pretty good idea of what oil will be worth in 10 years. They factor that into their pricing today.

    “Both Sanders and O’Malley are both in favor of changing the national grid to be more like Scotland is now.”

    Parasitic? Dependent? A boondoggle for large landowners?

    “Only and idiot would think that repealing the ban on crude oil exports at a time when prices are the lowest in years is a good idea.”

    Except a ban on oil export was always a bad idea. It is bad if oil is expensive. It is bad if oil is cheap. It is just bad. I am pretty sure people of your political ilk would claim that if oil was expensive, it is too valuable to export and so the ban should remain. Oil is fungible. Bans are pointless.

    “As far as I know none of the Republican candidates are against this move to deplete an important national resource.”

    There you go. Oil is too valuable to share with foreigners. This is the smart view is it?

    Liberal Yank – “What I find funny is that an America is done comment is made on a British blogger’s site when Britain lost 2 empires and still exists.”

    Britain’s ruling class did not import a Third World population to replace them until the 1950s. So Britain could lose an Empire and remain British. Now we are determined to be Lebanon so Britain will not survive. But then America’s ruling elites are determined to turn America into another corrupt Latin American kleptocracy so it won’t survive either.

    A Northern Brazil is the best case scenario now.

  22. The markets just 18 months ago valued oil at over $120 a barrel so saying that same market is predicting oil will be worth $30 makes no sense. Spot prices are simply what customers are currently willing to pay. Futures markets are a far better indicator however I am unaware of anyone that trades 10 year oil futures.

    Why do you assume that I am arguing whether the crude oil ban is good or not? People of my ilk would argue that since the crude oil ban was already in place the time to remove it would have been after the Republican victories of 2002. The timing of removing the ban is terrible. Instead of selling high US producers will be exporting to an already flooded market at. If your financial adviser is telling you to sell everything oil related at this point in the cycle you need a new adviser.

    There you go. Oil is too valuable to share with foreigners. This is the smart view is it?

    Where do you ever get that from. The point that you are missing is that in my lifetime when there is a Republican President(the 6 months of Ford’s Presidency after I was born aren’t normally included) there is also a war in the ME that disrupts supply leading to higher prices. I expect a Commander-in-Chief that is able to plan for scenarios such as a war between Saudi Arabia and Iran that cuts off all ME supplies. In this case oil becomes a strategic commodity. Plans need to be in place to ensure that our oil hungry military can fight effectively if needed. Unlike Bush II’s regime I know that war is a costly endeavor during which market forces must be properly managed. Funds for the war and the necessary strategic materials have to be secured. Borrowing money with no plans to repay it is irresponsible to me. During war time, yes oil is too valuable to share except with our allies.

    But then America’s ruling elites are determined to turn America into another corrupt Latin American kleptocracy so it won’t survive either.

    I’m assuming that you are talking about the Latino illegal immigrants. The fact is that the immigrants are actually welcomed by agriculture. In the small VA town I went to high school in Purdue and Tyson actively sought out illegal workers so they could avoid minimum wage, overtime pay and union activities. Before the illegals the starting wage at for hangers was $14/hr but illegals were only paid $4/hr. Due to the illegal status these workers, who earned far more than they could have in their home countries were treated far worse than many slavers. 96 hour a week shifts were common. I quit the young Republicans when I learned from local leaders that all of the talk about kicking the illegals out was only rhetoric to pacify those that lost their decent paychecks. Maintaining a dominated workforce with no rights is American corruption, not Latin American. Bribes to police were paid by white factory owners to get the whole process rolling so it was not imported from Mexico. I wonder, if I looked into it, would I find that British factory owners did similar things to, say, the Irish?

  23. “As I’ve stated before Hilary has huge trust issues thanks to previous scandals.”

    Why do you couch it in euphemisms like that? You know she’s a liar – and given all the things she has lied about in the past it isn’t difficult to see what that means. The old “lesser of two evils” catchphrase gets thrown around every election cycle, but look: O’Malley might have proposed incompetent policies, but at least he’s not actually evil.

  24. Let’s summarize,shall we? It’s so much fun to summarize!

    Democrat candidates: a future non-indicted flouter of US law who has achieved nothing meaningful in public office; an avowed socialist who wants to double taxes; and whatshisname.

    Republican candidates: two first-term Senators neither of whom has run a lemonade stand (haven’t we already elected one of those?); and a megalomaniac.

    About par for the course, I’d say.

    Reciewing the comments above, I’d also say it’s a shame some of the brilliant lads who frequent this place can’t be president of the US; you are all so much smarter than the candidates . . . or the previous US presidents, for that matter.

    Tim you are blessed to have such an august following,

  25. So Much For Subtlety

    Liberal Yank – “The markets just 18 months ago valued oil at over $120 a barrel so saying that same market is predicting oil will be worth $30 makes no sense.”

    Actually that is precisely what you would expect – as Keynes almost said, when the facts change so do the markets.

    “Why do you assume that I am arguing whether the crude oil ban is good or not?”

    You think removing it is stupid. That implies you think it is a good idea.

    “Instead of selling high US producers will be exporting to an already flooded market at.”

    Great! Screw the Saudis even more and make everyone else rich. Cheap oil is good for everyone else even if it hurts crude producers.

    “Where do you ever get that from.”

    The fact that you think it is too valuable to export.

    “Plans need to be in place to ensure that our oil hungry military can fight effectively if needed.”

    The US has spent billions and decades diversifying away from the Middle East. That is part of the reason why prices have collapsed. Angola sends as much oil to the US as Kuwait. There has been a plan. The people who will suffer from interruption of the Gulf supplies are East Asia and to a lesser extent Europe.

    “Borrowing money with no plans to repay it is irresponsible to me.”

    Obama raised the debt from an insane $1 trillion to $19 trillion. And yet you are still a leftist.

    “The fact is that the immigrants are actually welcomed by agriculture.”

    Sure. America’s ruling class wants to replace those White voters.

    “Maintaining a dominated workforce with no rights is American corruption, not Latin American.”

    Actually I think it is a little Latin American too.

    “I wonder, if I looked into it, would I find that British factory owners did similar things to, say, the Irish?”

    When North and South was written Ireland was part of the UK. But they did with Pakistanis in the 50s. All our rulers are corrupt and treasonable. They should be hanging from ropes.

    However they weren’t when Britain lost its first empire.

  26. The hypothetical question was what “center-left” US voter would vote for Hilary? I tried to explain what circumstances would led me to vote for her. I use euphemisms because the simple point is that if it comes down to Hilary or most of the Republicans in the race I believe Hilary will screw up the country less. Since we actually have no clue at this point who the final 2 are answers have to be vague.

    O’Malley isn’t a Republican so there is no reason to bring him up. On the Democratic end none of the candidates deserves my vote. With a later primary making my primary vote normally worthless state and local offices are far more interesting to me.

  27. “I use euphemisms because the simple point is that if it comes down to Hilary or most of the Republicans in the race I believe Hilary will screw up the country less.”

    I see. So you’re willing to vote for someone you know will lie to and murder her “own” people.

  28. Septic Yank–The generally dozy-if not actively evil–“centre left” types like yourself are one of the major causes of Americas decline and forthcoming status as just-another-socialistic-shithole. You are already almost there.

    If there are ANY circumstances under which you –or anybody else- would vote for Clinton your hands need to be smashed with hammers.

    Democracy is a crock of shit because it allows decent peoples futures to be pissed down the drain by morons.

    Repeal 99.9% of all laws and a permanent ban on any new ones. That will take the state’s power and no one will give a shit who gets in because they won’t be able to do anything once they are there.

    John Fembuo:” I’d also say it’s a shame some of the brilliant lads who frequent this place can’t be president of the US; you are all so much smarter than the candidates . . . or the previous US presidents, for that matter. ”

    As some comedy show (forgot which) once suggested , a plastic tub of lard would be smarter and do a better job than most of the self-serving, useless, ego-driven shite who have occupied most political jobs.

    The main problem with being a good POTUS would be trying to reform stuff without being murdered by the scum who benefit from the present corporate socialist empire.

    It would be next to impossible to return the US (or any other state) to a good place without near-Divine help. You would need to be given a “spider-sense” so you could know the depth of human soul and also semi-omnipresence. Then you could know who were your real supporters and who was looking to sell you out or betray you. You would know who was plotting against you and even who had been hired to kill you. Without such help there would be too much scum ranged against you and you would probably fail. Or be killed and fail that way.

    With such help America–or any other Western country’s– problems could be fairly easily solved. America could end up in an even better state than it started with 200 years ago. The economy repaired and 99.9% of laws gone etc. As above.

    Of course –as soon as good rests, evil floods in and the scum would start trying to undermine what had been done right away. The Human Condition.

  29. It’s nice to see name calling when I get up.

    I see. So you’re willing to vote for someone you know will lie to and murder her “own” people.

    No I am willing to vote against the party of torture, invading a sovereign nation with no cause, the Patriot Act, and instituting a massive socialized medicine program without bothering to fund any of it leaving a $20T debt to be paid. If it were up to me the members of the previous administration would be facing a war crimes tribunal as well.

    To me the greatest danger facing my nation is the fundamentalist Christians that are here. Radical Islam is, for the most part, across the ocean. I am sorry that the actions of my government caused the migration wave you have to deal with now. I did my part in voting against that set of criminals but it wasn’t enough.

    I’m sorry that you don’t respect my convictions but you will never change the fact that I fully believe Bush III, Cruz, Huckabee, Rubio, and Santorum will go back to war mongering. The only R candidate that I feel is not far worse than Hilary is Paul who is a RINO Libertarian.

    Even if the “Clinton Body Count” rumors are completely true the damage done by our war criminals, which is far more obvious, killed hundreds of thousands of Americans, Iraqis, and Afgans. Where the only choice available ends up being Clinton or blatant monsters there is no choice. Ideally none will make it that far.

  30. Repeal 99.9% of all laws and a permanent ban on any new ones.

    The claim that only 1 in 1000 laws on the books is worth keeping makes absolutely no sense to me. I don’t disagree that there are many terrible laws on the books. The good law, support for the Patriot Act was strong when it was passed, to you may very well restrict my rights, not entitlements, and I am not willing to give that up.

    A ban on new laws is an even worse notion. The system that can not adapt will be destroy which would lead to civil war.

    a plastic tub of lard would be smarter and do a better job than most of the self-serving, useless, ego-driven shite who have occupied most political jobs.

    No arguments here.

    It would be next to impossible to return the US (or any other state) to a good place without near-Divine help.

    God helps those that help themselves. Waiting for divine inspiration is an act of last resort.

    Flexibility was deliberately built into our Constitution. Sometimes TPTB do stupid things like increasing corruption with Citizen’s United. Sometimes it works as when Bush II leaving office according to the law. As long as there is still hope for change within the system then every effort needs to be made to resolve our problems peacefully(I know that isn’t something Americans are normally good at) unlike the many dictatorships we support around the world.

  31. I can only snatch five minutes at a time. All you have done is the list what you take to be the faults of the Republicans. Anyone one of us could list what we take to be the faults of the Democrats. And they are legion.

    But such lists are tedious because the premises from which they are drawn are different. The point about Hillary Clinton is that her “character flaws” (to use another popular euphemism) are surely something that (a) we can all agree on whatever our premises, and (b) set her far apart from all other candidates.

    Trump may be a world-class perfume-selling wanker, but as far as we know, he hasn’t actually had his own people killed in order to hide something and then lied repeatedly about it afterwards. Like she has. That is extraordinary. None of the other Democratic or Republican candidates has done anything like that. She really is in a league of her own.

  32. We’re going in the same circle. I don’t trust anything that comes out of the Republicans about the Clintons, or very much else for that matter. I don’t assume she has had people killed because I just don’t know the facts, only the propaganda. Since I trust most Republican candidates far left then they are much worse to me.

    Can we agree that despite policy flaws the best outcome is Paul beating Sanders or O’Malley. Excluding Gilmore, who I know almost nothing about, none of the other candidates on either side are worth even considering for me.

    I did find out the local Libertarian party has a meeting on the 18th. It doesn’t hurt to find out more about their policy goals. The bonus is the meeting is at a great diner I haven’t been to in years.

  33. “I don’t assume she has had people killed because I just don’t know the facts, only the propaganda.”

    OK, granted. Not all of the relevant facts are known, but quite a few of them are known. We know that Stevens was murdered by Islamic lunatics, we know that he had been requesting additional security from the State dept for a long time before the attack, and we know that his requests were ignored. We can infer who it was that ignored them. We also know that Hillary lied about the nature and cause of the attack.

    One explanation based on inferences around what we know is that Hillary allowed Stevens and his staff to be murdered because they weren’t happy about a weapons smuggling operation to supply Syrians with American weapons via Libya.

    Perhaps that explanation is wrong. But if it is, what better explanation is there? Choosing to ignore the affair because “not all of the facts are known” is just a way to escape the cognitive dissonance. We very often don’t have all the facts about a given problem, but we attempt to find solutions to it anyway.

  34. In the end the official story will state Hilary did nothing wrong as always. It may that where the is smoke there is fire but it is just as likely we have the boy who cried wolf based on what will be released. Until something is proven then the damage is to her public image and trustworthiness which I’m sure I’ve mentioned.

    That still doesn’t mean I trust the Republicans more. Even an actual conviction doesn’t erase the stain of Bush II. Hundreds of thousand confirmed dead and economic ruin is still far worse. As I’ve made clear I feel most of the current Republican field would easily led us back to the dark days we experiences only a few years ago. In a world where the only choices are an alleged, by her political enemies, murderer or a potential war lord I have to pick what I view to be the lessor of two evils.

    The one thing that would change my mind is if Bush II and his top advisers were to appear at The Hague. At least the hawk would be tempered knowing that they can’t just get away with anything.

  35. “In the end the official story will state Hilary did nothing wrong as always.”

    Very likely, yes. But I am not interested in the official story. I am interested in why center-left voters ignore and even discount this extraordinary affair. Two possibilities: one is that there is a credible, alternative explanation to the one I have mentioned which I have yet to see, and the other is that center left voters have a cognitive dissonance problem; they want to continue voting for what they see as the least bad center left candidate, even though they are aware of there being very serious objections to her character and past behaviour (delicately euphemized as “trust issues”).

    “That still doesn’t mean I trust the Republicans more.”

    Nobody said you had to. I don’t trust any Republican politician. But I’m not talking about “trust”. The objection to Hillary Clinton is not simply a “trust” issue, and nor is it partisan. Your objections to Bush II’s invasion of Iraq and the deaths of large numbers of civilians are basically a disagreement about policy.

    The objection to Hillary is different because it is not about policy choices or ideological differences. This is a woman who appears to have allowed her own people to be brutally raped and murdered. Think about it: she’d have done this to you, if only you had been in Steven’s place. I might disagree with you on all kinds of things, and we might call each other all names under the sun, but I would still want to see your murderer brought to justice.

    The last thing I would do is vote for her – even if she was more libertarian than Rand Paul – I’d still demand she be brought to justice. What she appears to have done is simply intolerable.

  36. Even as it’s (apparently) confirmed that she sent the real names of actual US spies winging around cyberspace unsecure all so that she could avoid Obama and the Repubs overseeing what she was doing on behalf of the people who paid her. I don’t like the woman anyway but the idea that people might vote for her – the country is gone.

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