Won’t work, or at least shouldn’t

The European commission is expected to propose scrapping arrangements that mean refugees have to claim asylum in the first country European they arrive in.

Because it’s not really just an EU regulation. That’s the way the whole international asylum seeker set up works. Claim in the first country you get to where it is safe for you to do so.

Aid and succour to those fleeing a violent death, starvation or oppression is the point of the system, not allowing people to pick and choose which place they’d like to receive it in.

40 thoughts on “Won’t work, or at least shouldn’t”

  1. “Abandoning the so-called Dublin regulation could leave the UK and other northern European countries more open to migration flows, as the majority of refugees have been arriving in the south and trying to continue their journey overland.”

    Wow! There’s not enough popcorn in the world for this.

  2. They are trying to have the EU treated as one big country I’d guess, which is what they want afterall.

  3. As DJ says: with open borders, the first “country” of arrival is the EU, not a constituent country. Making landfall in Italy and applying for status in Sweden is no different to making landfall in Exeter and applying for status in Bristol.

  4. So those people on The Jungle at Calais, they’re not economic migrants trying to get to the UK cos we have the jobs and the economic future France doesn’t offer. No, they’re refugees fleeing persecution. That they are no longer being persecuted and have no need to flee from anything anymore is beside the point.

  5. With all this going on, I’m wondering if in the long-term it would be better to be a rich person in a poor country than a normal person in a rich country. If places like Sweden, Germany, and the UK are going to be changed beyond recognition by migrants, would it not be better, assuming you had the cash and flexibility, to take up residence in an Eastern European country which may not have the same level of development but at least you’d be relatively wealthy and you’d not have to witness events like Cologne becoming ever-more regular? Ironically, the lack of wealth in Eastern Europe might be the very thing that saves them while the wealthier countries get destroyed from within. I’d take a bet now that in 80 years Slovakia will be Slovak and run by Slovaks for Slovaks. The UK? I’m not so sure.

  6. As this law/rule is completely ignored anyway there isn’t much of an issue. Keeping it or abolishing it won’t change the flow of migrants at all.

  7. Tim Newman: the lack of wealth in Eastern Europe might be the very thing that saves them

    That, plus the good sense of their governments who refuse to accept the migrants.

  8. That, plus the good sense of their governments who refuse to accept the migrants.

    Well, yes. Because these governments might be useless on most measures but if they can get the one important thing right – defence of the realm – then the rest might not really matter. The western nations have bizarrely become wealthy enough to destroy themselves, and historians might come to the conclusion at some point far in the future that there is an optimum level of wealth/comfort for a population beyond which they self-destruct. It’s certainly true for corporations.

  9. So Much For Subtlety

    Tim Newman – “I’d take a bet now that in 80 years Slovakia will be Slovak and run by Slovaks for Slovaks. The UK? I’m not so sure.”

    Their Communists lost and are now in prison or in opposition. Our Communists continue their march through the institutions and so now run the United Kingdom.

    But when Britain, France and Germany become Muslim majority, the little countries will fall as well. There is no hope for Europe. Maybe Western civilisation will survive a little while longer in New Zealand. A Muslim Zombie version of On The Beach.

  10. From the EU’s point of view, for this purpose the EU is one country (or, to be more accurate, the Schengen zone is one country).

    Note that the general international law is first country, not the first location – so you could arrive on a boat in Florida, and then travel to California before applying for asylum.

    There are some ways in international law that the EU is treated as a single country (e.g. trade agreements), so why not this one?

  11. But when Britain, France and Germany become Muslim majority, the little countries will fall as well.

    I dunno. The Swiss are good at holding out. And I suspect Muslims only hold sway when their opponents cannot, for whatever reason, fight back. A few of these small Eastern European countries might look to Israel for inspiration. They might even secure Russian backing, in the event that Russia transforms into something other than the regional asshole.

  12. Well France doesn’t want any (see Algeria) and Germany has had enough, bitte schone, so this just legitimises what they’re planning to do now.

    Hello Dover!

  13. I’m wondering if in the long-term it would be better to be a rich person in a poor country than a normal person in a rich country.

    I find your Richaphobia suggestion, Tim, that rich people are not normal deeply offensive, I’d class it as a hate crime.

  14. SMFS

    “Our Communists continue their march through the institutions and so now run the United Kingdom.”

    Evidence?

  15. Arnster – I can help you with this.

    Step 1) Write out the job description of your ideal job (forget about whether you’re qualified for it).

    Step 2) Find a mirror.

    Step 3) Look in it.

    See?

    (NB don’t worry too much about semantics here: what SMFS calls communists, Ecks calls scum, and I class as progressive funsters. It’s all the same thing).

  16. But at what price?

    Well…I was talking about a scenario whereby the post-Putin Russia takes a turn for the better and stops being the regional asshole. Admittedly it’s a slim chance, but it could happen.

  17. “Ironically, the lack of wealth in Eastern Europe might be the very thing that saves them while the wealthier countries get destroyed from within. I’d take a bet now that in 80 years Slovakia will be Slovak and run by Slovaks for Slovaks. The UK? I’m not so sure.”
    I don’t think it is wealth but history teaching. Eastern Europeans seem to realize that this is the 3rd attempt to conquer Europe and resist.
    Sadly we are ignorant, unfortunately I don’t have any marketable skills so I am little worried.

  18. Tim Newman: it’s a slim chance.

    True. Anusism has been a central plank from the days of the Tsars.

  19. TMB

    That doesn’t work I’m afraid. SMFS clearly write big c Communists.

    Where is the evidence that “Our Communists continue their march through the institutions and so now run the United Kingdom.”?

  20. If there wasn’t an EU then the likes of Italy would be just waiving the migrants through anyway – and the likes of France would continue to do fuck all about them all setting up camp in Calais. At least there’s a chance that a supranational organisation can, you know, organise this – if it hadn’t of been invented yet, you’d be trying to invent something that handles the problem.

  21. you’d be trying to invent something that handles the problem.

    We do have something that handles that particular problem: it’s called the English Channel.

    And we used to have a backup system in too, just in case the channel was insufficient: it was called immigration control. Now sadly missed.

  22. I suspect immigration control has started lapsing more because of costs – 20 years ago the working class had to save a month or more of wages to bring a family on holiday – now you can jump on an Easyjet for a day’s minimum wage. The sheer numbers of people moving through the likes of Gatwick or Heathrow have made it easy to hide.

    Mixed with globalised trade (I once ordered something from China on the Saturday and it was delivered to my house on the Isle of Man on Monday morning), you’d need a huge fucking organisation to try monitor the comings and goings of everything and everyone.

    Try to build something that can monitor this, and you’d get accused of trying to build big brother – the bleeding heart Left will also complain every time some poor downtrodden person gets denied entry, the Libertarian Left will hate the intrusions into civil liberties (can’t even bring in ID cards…) and the small state Right don’t like big tax sucking bureaucracies.

    So here we are.

  23. Tim:

    “I’m wondering if in the long-term it would be better to be a rich person in a poor country than a normal person in a rich country. ”

    It is. So long as the poor country isn’t run by a bunch of authoritarians. Give me rich in the Philippines over normal in UK. Rich in China not so good.

  24. @BiM.

    What is the situation on the ground regarding migrants/refugees in Malta. As a small densely populated island close to Africa, I could imagine the worst

  25. @gunker

    The blacker (for want of a better term) north African guys stand out, and there’s quite a few of them. They mostly keep themselves to themselves around one or two concentrated areas and don’t cause much bother – you’ll see quite a few of them in construction sites and manning the bin trucks. You’ll also see quite a few of them popping out of restaurant kitchens every now and again (although never serving customers, which is telling…) – there was a rape a few months ago involving a Somali on a Swedish lady, and the anti-migrant brigade can be a lot more vocal here than elsewhere http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/court_and_police/55940/police_arrest_somali_in_connection_with_alleged_rape_in_gzira#.Vp_Z6PkrLIW (read the comments).

    There are quite a few Isis dodging Arabs though, who are a bit harder to spot since they look similar to the Maltese. The gold sparkly BMWs with Arab plates and women wearing head scarves give it away. I think most of them are wealthy, since the Maltese Government has been selling passports… http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20151001/local/malta-passport-programme-best-in-the-world-1-billion-raised-since.586600

    All in all, they don’t bother me that much – and I’m an economic migrant myself (who had much less reasons to migrate than these people), so I can empathise somewhat.

  26. Arnald:”Where is the evidence that “Our Communists continue their march through the institutions and so now run the United Kingdom.”?”

    Anti-white hatred described as anti-racism. Defined in CM terms–only whites can be racist etc

    Anti-male hatred esp against white men–despite the now obvious revelations of who the real women-haters are.

    Eco-freak bullshit–Mother GAIA over human beings

    A “tory” govt that spews ZaNu policies as quick as it can steal them and promotes a foreign invasion while persecuting natives who try to stand up for themselves.

    Attacks on marriage and on Christianity (while kissing islams arse) and peddling femmi-hatred except in the case of a real rapists when stony silence and denial is the response

    Every media outfit–BBC/ITV–national/local papers–all staffed and stuffed with middle-class leftists who peddle their narrative at every opportunity.

    The takeover of large swathes of British Unis –first by leftist teaching scum and now by their even more evil Red Guard spawn.

    Unlike SMFS I draw no distinction between “communism” and socialism. They are all one despite the lies of their followers. The triumph of the scum collective over the individual soul. And in practice, the triumph of psychopathic scum who lead and control the collective morons.

    Get off your arse and look around Arnald you lazy cunt. But of course your question is bogus. Another con in an endless parade of deceit that is socialism. You know very well what your scummy comrades are up.

    While we are into questions Arny–what are your thoughts concerning the millions murdered by socialism?

    Did such things never happen? Is it all western lies? Or do you not give a shit about all those lives? Omelettes and eggs? What are those class enemies worth compared to socialism?

  27. Try to build something that can monitor this, and you’d get accused of trying to build big brother – the bleeding heart Left will also complain every time some poor downtrodden person gets denied entry, the Libertarian Left will hate the intrusions into civil liberties (can’t even bring in ID cards…)

    I suppose it’s a testament to the government’s PR & marketing skills that people think of ID card -related schemes being mere ID card schemes.

  28. So Much For Subtlety

    Arnald – “Evidence?”

    Tony Blair’s cabinet. Almost all of them had a background in Marxist political parties or trades unions.

    But you are wasting time by deflecting.

  29. So Much For Subtlety

    Bloke in Malta – “There are quite a few Isis dodging Arabs though, who are a bit harder to spot since they look similar to the Maltese. The gold sparkly BMWs with Arab plates and women wearing head scarves give it away.”

    Some people with worse taste in gold and bling than the Maltese? I find that a little hard to believe.

    Especially as the Maltese are what you get if the Italians use force to convert Arabs to Christianity. It being more or less the same language.

  30. So long as the poor country isn’t run by a bunch of authoritarians. Give me rich in the Philippines over normal in UK.

    Indeed. Nice but “a bit chaotic” is probably the best.

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