Let’s have a land value tax that’s not on land

No, really:

Second, create a distance selling levy. I oppose extra sales taxes, but there is a real issue with what the supermarkets are saying about unfair competition in the area of business rates. They pay high business rates: Google and Amazon, et al, are not and this is distorting competition. So, let’s look at that and charge an excess land value tax on the UK property of companies that use those facilities to arrange on line sales of products not otherwise taxable in the UK. This is a super land tax. I have not developed the idea in full, but it is a direction of travel. EU issues would have to be looked at.

We’ll also have to deal with the basic logic of this absurdity. While we’re at it, we’d better start taxing pedestrians for the petrol they’re not using. No difference between that and taxing people a land tax for land they’re not using.

Not the first time I’ve said it but the man’s a loon.

56 thoughts on “Let’s have a land value tax that’s not on land”

  1. If the High Street retailers are having trouble with business rates, they could always put a model railway and an exercise bike in the back of the store and claim they don’t have to pay it.

  2. I bet the idea of not having high business rates never even began to cross the lunar landscape that passes for his mind.

  3. So, let me get this straight: a load of businesses who destroyed other businesses at least in part by using cheaper, out-of-town locations are now complaining that they’re being put out of business by other retailers using even cheaper, far-out-of-town locations?

    http://i.pokeme.com/meme/img/00my.jpg

  4. And in return for these “unthought through” business rates, the foreign companies get the streets outside their offices swept by Murphy?

  5. The Stig makes a good point. So much of the Murph’s thinking, if you can call it that, revolves around means to preserve status quos. Seems an odd pursuit for a self described “progressive”

  6. what he’s saying is no new business model must be allowed to compete as it will work in some new way that will disadvantage someone and possibly lead to Unite having fewer members. Ignoring the fact that the benefit of having new businesses is to do things better (or they don’t survive) and that the masses benefit

    Sod the proles, MOAR TAX!

  7. Let’s put a really really high Land Value Tax on Rockall, so that it will raise enough to clear the entire National Debt.

    Then we can all be happy.

    Or we could put a stupid tax per word on Sir Richard of Murphalot.

  8. Actually he is being consistent. His belief is that all belongs to the state. He is just wrapping the extraction bit up in a structure that requires more tax inspectors – keeping his paymasters happy.

  9. but there is a real issue with what the supermarkets are saying about unfair competition in the area of business rates. They pay high business rates…

    The left are defending supermarkets now? Not the most consistent bunch, are they?

  10. @Tim:

    I’ve seen people here reflect many a time how the left adopt more and more contorted positions to try and shore up the faulty logic of their worldview.

    Ritchie’s position is now so convoluted he’s part pretzel, part yoga master. If he goes further down the rabbit hole, he’ll start defying the laws of physics, and become some kind of mathematically impossible solid, a la M C Escher.

  11. Out of town, in a town all are subject to business rates. What happens if a distance selling firm relocates to a shitty town like Stockton on a Tees, where the business rates are lower than some where more economically successful? Is that unfair competition.

  12. Ritchie is just investing in his future.

    Since being cold-shouldered by Corbyn, he has:

    a) Predicted, “though I might be wrong, because …”, all possible economic outcomes, disasters and failures

    b) Has proposed all possible solutions and ways forward

    Whatever happens, and however engorged and excited by whatever economic crash, he will be able to claim that he not only predicted it, but invented the solution.

    He has even been in touch every political party under the UK sun, save the Tories. And I suppose he could advise them if the Nation called him.

  13. Tim Newman,

    “The left are defending supermarkets now? Not the most consistent bunch, are they?”

    The Graun left is very weird about things going into decline.

    When all the high street chain record stores closed down, there were a number of articles from lefties lamenting the demise of the likes of HMV, Tower and Virgin and how big evil Amazon had driven them out, but I remember when the lefties absolutely hated them because they drove all the independent record shops out of business.

    I think there’s a mixture of snobbery about “big business” and using artisan shit, and also a sense of deranged paranoia about their power. Once they’re nobbled by someone else, there’s a new bad guy.

  14. “EU issues would have to be looked at.” The master of understatement. Oi, Ireland, giz your tax revenue!

    Though I’m particularly tickled by the idea that competition should be ‘fair’. We’d want to protect John Q Public from the worst of the fallout, sure, but why shouldn’t businesses use every advantage they can come up with? Isn’t the invention of new advantages where the value lies?

  15. @Stigler – as Tim I believe has pointed out, people on the left, while thinking of themselves as progressive, are in fact incredibly small-c conservative

    “we have had a library here for a hundred years! we must ALWAYS have a library, even if no-one uses it anymore”

    “footballers should get paid more because they are the Aristotelian artists of the pitch, not the fatcat management. WAIT! Not that much! and ticket prices mustn’t rise either, they’ve always been five quid to watch a game!”

    “we must challenge the establishment! wait, what do you mean we are the establishment now? EVERYONE IN LINE, NO TALKING”

  16. I think it makes more sense to understand that the Proggies don’t like spontaneous change. They see it as dangerous chaos which threatens their carefully planned administrative systems. They like change when it’s them imposing it, from the top down, via their carefully planned administrative systems.

  17. Conservative = socially conservative, economically liberal

    Liberal = socially liberal, economically conservative

    These are pretty much the dictionary as well as the de facto definitions in the US now, which can seem odd (liberals denouncing Liberals for their lack of liberalism, etc).

  18. Could the Conservatists in the UK really even be called socially conservatist anymore? About the most socially conservative things they are trying to do is slow immigration, and try some weird restrictions on internet porn.

  19. American “liberals” aren’t socially or economically liberal. “Liberal” in the US simply means a Progressive, who is a social and economic authoritarian.

  20. For a Progressive, anything which they do not want to change themselves must never change.

    “I think there’s a mixture of snobbery about “big business” and using artisan shit, and also a sense of deranged paranoia about their power. Once they’re nobbled by someone else, there’s a new bad guy.”

    I fondly remember the time (last year?) when black cab drivers were fat obnoxious racist cockneys to 99% of Guardian readers. Now they seem to have been transformed into the Levellers.

    It’s herdthink, or more like a flock of starlings – you see them make 180 degree turns for seemingly no reason, and everyone starts flying in that direction instead. No one really knows why the direction changed, but by God the new direction is the correct one and the old one is heresy.

  21. The answer if course Resale Price Maintenance , the system by which retailers ,wherever placed, agreed to sell a manufacturer’s goods at the same price or get their supply of goods stopped. Protects small shops from discounters who nowadays, it seems, are predating on suppliers and manufacturers. Legal in the US since the Leegin Creative Leather case went through the Supreme Court. Banned in the Uk as the price of joining the Common Market. Led in UK to rise of supermarkets and the destruction of traditional town centres as places for shopping.

  22. I live in Guernsey for a few years, where they quite proudly protect small independent shops in the high street for competition from big high street brands. Prices were expensive, couldn’t shop on a Sunday, and funnily enough the only big chains you could buy in were the chains that had based themselves in Guernsey for tax dodging purposes (HMV and Specsavers). So I didn’t find it quaint that local businesses were protected – but I did quite like getting everything delivered from Amazon VAT free.

  23. So, you don’t think anyone should be allowed to compete then, DBC?

    Sigh.

    By the way, town centres are mostly shit. I don’t know what people think was or is so wonderful about them.

  24. There’s something fundamentally wrong with a man who spends all his time thinking up new ways to tax people.

    I bet he was cruel to small animals as a boy.

  25. DBCR, you are such a reactionary.Do you have a poster of Alf Roberts’ on your wall by any chance?

    “Led in UK to rise of supermarkets and the destruction of traditional town centres as places for shopping.”

    1) No, it didn’t.
    2) Perhaps out of masochism, some may have preferred the relatively terrible little shops that the supermarkets replaced. They are in a tiny minority.

  26. Yet again DBCR peddles the myth that resale price maintenance is legal in the USA. A swift read of the decision is sufficient to show this. The question is if this claim by DBCR is false, how many more of his claims are false?

  27. The answer if course Resale Price Maintenance , the system by which retailers ,wherever placed, agreed to sell a manufacturer’s goods at the same price or get their supply of goods stopped.

    Otherwise known as a cartel which screws over the customer.

  28. Rob said:
    “For a Progressive, anything which they do not want to change themselves must never change.”

    That’s not a bad definition.

  29. Philip Scott Thomas

    Led in UK to rise of supermarkets and the destruction of traditional town centres as places for shopping.

    In what way are either of these necessarily a bad thing? What is this odd British obsession with preserving the ‘traditional town centre’?

  30. DBC Reed said:
    “The answer if course Resale Price Maintenance …. Banned in the UK as the price of joining the Common Market.”

    Much as I like approve of blaming the EU for everything, resale price maintenance was largely banned in the UK by the Resale Prices Act 1964. We didn’t join the EU until 1973.

    If it was the price of joining, we were planning a long time ahead. Unless it was part of one of the applications vetoed by de Gaulle, but I don’t think either of them went as far as passing new laws.

  31. We used to be (or England did) disparaged as the nation of shopkeepers,

    Now we seem to be a nation of warehouse stock-pickers, shelf- stackers and delivery men.

  32. @BraveFart in fairness to Napoleon, when he made the nation of shopkeepers comment, he was trying to say (allegedly) that the British Empire was predominantly mercantile and had been built on trade and profit, rather than just on military grounds for reasons on megalomaniac world domination like his was

  33. Town centres are generally much more pleasant now they have specialist shops and cafés and well-run mini-supermarkets.

  34. Just seems like another torturous attempt to extract the ‘foreign’ tax that he believes belongs in the UK, when it comes to tax he can make the national front look unpatriotic

  35. Bloke in Costa Rica

    Trust Reed to come up with the optimally cuntish way to fuck over both customers and businesses. Retail Price Maintenance is yet another example of how cartels can only exist with government sanction.

  36. Resale Price maintenance – always goes down well on websites dedicated to that dangerously truncated form of laissez faire that ignores the land value tax that stops it just putting up land and property prices > see Adam Smith land taxer extraordinaire and laissez faire expert par excellence.
    Wearily brushing aside the accusations of lying from the usual frothers : Wikipedia Resale Price Maintenance “Thus from the 1975 enactment of the Consumer Goods Pricing Act to the 2007 Leegin decision, resale price maintenance was again no longer legal in the USA”
    Wikipedia Leegin Creative Leather Products Inc vPSKS Inc “Leegin established that the legality of such restraints are to be based on the rule of reason” (where RPM can be judged as not anti-competitive as opposed to EU where RPM is banned per se )

  37. “…the destruction of traditional town centres as places for shopping.”

    What about the traditional produce fayres, were held outside the town walls, DBC?
    Admit it! You’re nothing but a modernist, aren’t you?

  38. So Much For Subtlety

    I may not have understood what he is proposing properly, but isn’t his suggestion simply that some companies are doing something he, Ritchie, doesn’t like, and so he wants to punish them with a special tax regime that applies to them and them alone? He wants, basically, to take hostages by threatening their other assets should they behave in a way they do not like? Isn’t this a little too out-right thuggish even for him?

    Nice corporate headquarters you have got there. Be a shame if something happened to it.

  39. What is this odd British obsession with preserving the ‘traditional town centre’?

    I don’t think it’s so much that as the fact that walking down a high-street in the UK the economic impact of high rents and business rates is illustrated by the vast numbers of shops which are boarded-up, empty or given over to charity shops (exempt from business rates)

    Indeed, if business rates were charged on charity shops as well the picture of the high street would be even bleaker.

    The powers that be don’t like the consequences of their excessive taxation being starkly highlighted and that is what the death of the British high street represents.

    Between the commercial property owners and the tax authorities have essentially creamed off the vast majority of the profit of small high street businesses, leaving only the branded chains left, this is why most British high streets nowadays look almost identical.

  40. It’s a bit like the old Swedish joke from back in the day of tax rates getting close to 100% for certain types of income over there that the State was going to assess tax on income that you didn’t earn but could have done.

  41. but there is a real issue with what the supermarkets are saying about unfair competition in the area of business rates.

    For Ritchie, ‘unfair competition’ is an oxymoron. Any competition is by definition bad. And must be suppressed.

    Why on earth is this unfair? Someone finally manages to serve customers without the expense of a high street storefront (there have been plenty of failures) and this is a bad thing? We must invent a completely new tax to distortedly level the playing field to protect the incumbents!

  42. Steve

    That would not surprise me at all – his power hungry nature and megalomania ooze from every blogpost and utterance – a nasty piece of work.

    SMFS

    given the resemblance between Murphy’s manifesto and that of a prominent German statesmen of the 1930s, he had better be careful what he wishes for – given Corbyn’s electoral prospects he could find himself subject to the oft – requested ‘Socialist Tax’ and forced to sell up and move to A more clement ideological climate….

  43. So Much For Subtlety

    abacab – “It’s a bit like the old Swedish joke from back in the day of tax rates getting close to 100% for certain types of income over there that the State was going to assess tax on income that you didn’t earn but could have done.”

    British tax law used to do this with prostitutes I dimly remember.

    Family Courts in much of the West do it with alimony. Even if you get fired, you will still be assessed according to what the judge thinks you should be earning. Many divorced men, after all, would like to wind down and even retire. So the Courts do not look at their income but what the judge thinks they should be earning. You go to jail if you do not or cannot earn what they think you should.

  44. Even if you get fired, you will still be assessed according to what the judge thinks you should be earning.

    That never even came into it in my Dad’s case: he was retired and had no income outside his pension. But the judge said his wife, who still worked, was entitled – because the kids were entitled, you see – to a certain standard of living in London that she could not afford on her own salary. So my Dad had to sell his home to pay for it. Fortunately, I was able to help out so he didn’t have to move.

  45. So Much For Subtlety

    Tim Newman – “That never even came into it in my Dad’s case: he was retired and had no income outside his pension. …. So my Dad had to sell his home to pay for it.”

    The growth area for divorce is among the newly retired. Still not the largest group but the fastest growing. I have views about women who wait until their husbands stop earning so they can scoop the pool of assets.

    But then if the Family Courts were public there would be revolution in this country. They can only do what they do because they act in secret.

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