Socialism and the unity of all people

Anti-migrant mob in Germany ‘cheered’ as refugee shelter burned in front of them
Up to 30 drunken onlookers clapped and cheered as a former hotel, which was being converted into an asylum seeker refuge, caught alight in Bautzen, Saxony

Caught fire” there is a bit of a misnomer, accelerants have been found.

But this sort of anger about foreigners is, while not exclusive to the old DDR, very much more common there than in the old GDR. A couple of generations of socialism don’t seem to have brought on that peace and brotherhood of all men.

And it’s also the old DDR that has the vast expanses of empty properties that people can be put into. And if we look at it purely on an economic basis filling those up with the young immigrants isn’t all that bad an idea: the local populations very definitely skew old, as many of the young moved west.

It’s one of those “interesting” problems.

52 thoughts on “Socialism and the unity of all people”

  1. The DDR missed out on 45 years of state sponsored indoctrination in selfhatred and cultural relativism. Under communism, aspirant third worlders, brought behind the Iron Curtain for education/indoctrination, experienced less than class solidarity and a lot of undiluted xenophobia.

  2. Practical, as opposed to theoretical socialism is pretty well built on the principal – there’s them over there have got more than we have, so it should be fairly redistributed for the benefit of all. Which is the antithesis of “peace & brotherhood of all men”. It’s, “we must unite to take it, from them.”

  3. Economists tell us Germany’s demographic requires new young workers.

    Who will bugger off west if they get a work permit.

    And most of them are unqualified and probably short of a work ethic. Even the ones with degrees have them because Dad knew someone in the ministry.

    And they have been reclassified as displaced persons so will be expected to go home once the war is over.

    And the Mahgreb contingent is going to get kicked out, as they face no threat back home.

    What a cluster fuck Merkel has made.

  4. The Laughng Cavalier

    Travelling and working in Central and Easter Europe after the revolutions I noticed that after 40+ years of egalitarian socialism the locals tended towards nationalism, sexism and xenophobia.

  5. Bloke in North Dorset

    What LJH said.

    The ZIPRA students I had when teaching in Zimbabwe told me that they were spat out and had monkey noises made as they walked round Moscow when being trained in Russia.

  6. I think you mean “more common there than in the old BRD” (if you are going to be consistent with your abbreviations). GDR is of course DDR in English.
    Yes. I am a pendant and should get out more…

  7. So Much For Subtlety

    What Ljh said. In spades.

    The Laughng Cavalier – “I noticed that after 40+ years of egalitarian socialism the locals tended towards nationalism, sexism and xenophobia.”

    That is, they were normal. We on the other hand are pathological with self hatred.

    Steve – “Think of this fire as rape prevention.”


  8. In other words, open borders between significantly disparate economies are a bad idea. Because people will move into the better economies rather than stay home and fix their own, bringing all the problems that caused their home economies to underperform with them.

  9. Re IanB

    “bringing all the problems that caused their home economies to underperform with them.”

    Look at our enclaves such as Luton. Does it resemble London or Lahore?

  10. So Much For Subtlety

    Theophrastus – “Socialism brutalises people.”

    But it doesn’t make them stupid. At least not the Soviet sort.

    The British public should look and learn. It is too late. The British will disappear as their elites have committed suicide. But they should try to put off the day.

  11. And if we look at it purely on an economic basis filling those up with the young immigrants isn’t all that bad an idea

    Perhaps you could show your working out Tim?

    Dumping unemployable (both legally unemployable and simply workshy) and anti-social migrants anywhere will only increase the need for spending on state services such as policing and healthcare. The money for that does not grow on trees.

    It seems to me to be the parable of the broken window in action.

    The caption for one image reads “A woman lights a candle among banners left by people opposed to the attack ”

    Banners and candles… for a building.

  12. Importing 18-30 yobs, (many of whom can’t even read or write in their own language and possess every possible bad attitude about the values that the West used to hold) is not creating a future Tim.

    It is destroying the future.

    If more kids are needed in the West–when ever greater automation is so obviously on the way–then economic incentives are needed. Not importing a fucking race and culture war with military age male scum.

    Perhaps you have a spare room in your house that is being under-used Tim? A room some poor 18-30 yob could stay in.

    Don’t prescribe for others unless you are happy to involve yourself.

  13. “A woman lights a candle among banners left by people opposed to the attack ”

    Accidentally burning it down again?

  14. The argument that we need invasion because demographics has always been a weak post facto excuse anyway.

    Problem: The population is skewing older and birth rates are low. The welfare state is unsustainable.

    ‘Solution’: Before trying anything else (affordable family formation, automation, significant welfare reform) let’s replace the population with millions of angry young goat herders!

    Nah, me neither.

  15. It’s funny really.. Historically Germany has always been as ..differentiated.. in peoples and (political) outlooks as say, the US.
    Only politicians pretend this isn’t so and treat Germany as a homogenous mass that will happily hobble along after whoever is Führer(in). Usually with rather unimpressive results.

    Ignoring the fact that east-Germany still mostly contains communist-era inhabitants, has a mainly *slavic* cultural background, is an economic disaster area, and other odds and ends really doesn’t help.

  16. Lewiston Maine would be a good place to look at for your “interesting” problem. Somalian immigrants began arriving in 2003.

    A basic google search returned 10 results for Lewiston Maine Muslims. 1 is a wiki link which contains no useful information. 8 are anti-Muslim blogs. 1 is a New Yorker article rerun by PBS which was the only source that provided any useful information, and not much in 6 pages.

    Crime statistics in general dropped from 2003 to 2010 and were below national averages. An uptick in burglaries in 2011 pushed overall crime rates above national averages. Rapes are lower than 2003 numbers despite an uptick in 2013. In general crime statistic do not show Somalian refugees cause wide scale problems. I will note that in general Muslims do not use drugs or alcohol which lead to most US crime so this could partially explain the lower statistics. Alcohol is believed to be the cause behind one brutal murder.

    Economic data mirrors national trends. I chose to look at information from 2000 to 2015. Overall the Lewiston-Auburn area lost 3.1% of it’s labor force during this period. The “white” labor force dropped far faster considering that approximately 9000 Somalians have moved into the area. The overall unemployment rate was marginally lower in 2015 than it was in 2001.

    In answer to the “look at it purely on an economic basis filling those up with the young immigrants” problem it appears that these Muslims have replaced the local workers who had left. The real question is what will happen to the children. If they decide to stay in Lewiston, unlike white kids, then it is a success. If the children adopt current American population movements then, at least with regards to the Lewiston Somalian immigrants, the net effect is virtually nothing.

  17. Problem: The population is skewing older and birth rates are low. The welfare state is unsustainable.

    If there are enough of them to pay for your old age, there are enough of them to vote not to.

  18. LY–How many Somalis? And of what economic/social status? Of what age and family status?

    It is one thing to import small numbers of doctors, engineers etc from “overseas”. Esp if they are bringing money/valuables with them and have useable skills –not dole claimants or hate preachers. Setting up stalls for the “Rapey Yob Violence Experience ” aimed at the native population is something else again.

    Also age matters. Camoron claimed the 20000 coming here will be women/kids/settled families etc NOT 18-30 yobs. However even if true, what they are doing–such as the 1000 they are dumping on 6000 inhabitants of the Isle of Bute–will still be trouble. Say there are no yobs going to Bute now. But after 10 years there will be as all the cute kids grow up to be sullen friends of the RoP.

  19. Mr Ecks currently there are around 9000 Somalian immigrants. Approximately 1/5 of those are Bantu which is the Somalian equivalent to untouchables. The population of Lewiston is approximately 36,000(25% Muslim) so it is a higher percentage than what is being sent to Isle of Bute(17% Muslim).

    As to the former occupations of these immigrants I was not able to find any information. As I said of the 10 hits I got for Lewiston Maine Muslins 8 were anti-Muslim blogs and didn’t provide any useful information. One point noted in the New Yorker story I linked is that these people were originally sent to other cities and moved to Lewiston for better opportunities. I can not, from the information I have found, determine if they are representative of all Somalian immigrants. It is possible to claim that those who moved in are the best of the immigrants although that would have as much substantiation as saying they are the ones “Setting up stalls for the “Rapey Yob Violence Experience ””.

    I picked Lewiston because it is a small city which is not a part of a greater metropolitan area. This makes it easier to tell the results of the Somalian intrusion as there are fewer outside variables. It is simply harder to look at the effects in a larger area like Dearborn(30% Muslim), Michigan, a suburb of Detroit. I would welcome you to provide crime and economic data for other areas which are useful to the conversation.

  20. Yeah, those Somalis sound great. You should move closer to them, LY.

    Maine has gone from having no gang members a few years ago to having 4,000 of them. Mainahs have gone from thinking of gang members as something they saw on COPS to something they see when they look out the window.

    Vacationland now hosts the True Somali Bloods and the True Sudanese Bloods who spill each other’s blood to find out who has the truest blood of them all. In Lewiston, Somali flash mobs attack natives. In Bangor, a Somali gang is at the heart of local crime.

  21. Steve that is one of those blogs I mentioned that doesn’t add any value. There are plenty of words and links to similar blogs yet the only one that has any credibility is that of the Lewiston Mayor. Once you read his actual words it quickly becomes apparent that is nothing more than a disjointed rant. Where are the actual details that back up these claims?

    I cited the US Department of Labor economic data and aggregated crime statistics on city-data. I also included the worst actual story that I could find. You gave me a blog post by a loon that can’t even bother to pick up a dictionary let alone find supporting data for the claims.

  22. …the only one that has any credibility is that of the Lewiston Mayor.

    Ah, the politicians are the only ones with credibility. Sure.

    As far the blogs go, let’s face it, the mainstream media will go to just about any lengths to suppress any negative news about immigration/diversity. They didn’t even want to report the Cologne rapes, and wouldn’t have if the event had not been so huge that it couldn’t be ignored.

  23. I tried following the links on Steve’s recommended blog for around 20 minutes and found no actual details. If the numbers I used are wrong or don’t tell the whole story then please tell me why. Just don’t give me a link to someone as crazy as Murphy.

  24. LY:So all you have is bullshit from the US Federal tyranny? The same cunts that tell the world about the US’s 6% unemployment rate?

    So because the blogs linked to don’t give (prob made up) figures–as do the Fedpricks–they are all groundless? And the Maine Governor is a bigoted bullshiter as well?

    I suggest you move there and spend a year or two living next door to these lovely Somalis. Take your camera and document what happens.

    We need the laughs over here.

  25. After sifting through the hate speech comments the “bad” areas seem to be around Kennedy Park and Hillview From what I see from google street view(April 2012) I’ve lived in far worse areas. Lisbon St, just a block away from the evil Kennedy park has a far higher variety of businesses than any poor neighborhood near where I live.

    Where did the Maine Governor come into this? As far as I can see reading back the only mention is your post at 2:09 am. The linked blog is obviously highly biased. All I ask for is anything that actually contradicts the numbers I’ve found. Until you can cite something other than racist rhetoric I maintain your position is unfounded.

  26. Your numbers come from the same lying Federal pukes who dumped the Somalis there in the first place.

    Are numbers what matter? If I say that 61.4 % of “Liberals ” are morons who will believe whatever they are told by scummy “authority” figures does that make it more believable?

    The Feds “lie morning noon and night and lie some more in their sleep just to keep in practice”..

    You cut over there and live with the Somalis. Walk the streets. Ride the buses and the trains. Film it so we can see for ourselves. If it is a lovely set up as you claim that will soon be seen. But please don’t quote notorious liars –who dumped the Somalis there in the first place–and think us dumb enough to swallow their shite. While ignoring people who actually have to deal with the reality of their lovely new fed-invited guests. Because they hasn’t got statistical bullshit like wot the feds have got–or more likely fiddled up or made up.

    PS–The Governor was the one trying to curtail the hand-outs. And did the blog writers make up names for non-existent Somali gangs?

  27. Here are some more real information for you.

    Brown University Center for the Study of Race and Ethnicity Draft Paper – August 14, 2003

    An Analysis of the Employment Patterns of Somali Immigrants to Lewiston from 2001 through 2006

    Somali transplants put down roots in Maine August 16, 2015

    New Americans in Maine, Facts sheet updated in 2015

    I still haven’t found a state or local government source to support the Boston Globe 4.7% unemployment rate in 2015.

    From all of the actual numbers I’ve found initially the Somali immigrants did cost the state and local governments a large sum. In the almost 15 years since they started arriving they have become productive members of society.

  28. Mr Ecks I am more than willing to provide my paypal information if you will cover the expenses. Midweek airfare and a hotel room will be less than $1000 for a 5 day trip. A monthly(there are no weekly passes listed) bus pass is $36. I could probably get away with a budget of $1500 and get you all the information you want. This would include the appropriate camera as I currently have nothing that would work.

  29. I should also add that the Somali immigrants weren’t dumped in Lewiston. Initially they were sent to the Atlanta, GA area. Overflow was directed to Portland, ME. Refugees made the choice to give up Federal benefits they received to move to Lewiston.

    I also came across Mayor Raymond’s retraction to his open letter to the Lewiston Sun Journal however I closed the tab as I didn’t feel I’d need it.

    It’s funny what you can find out if you are willing to look.

  30. If state and local government or college reports aren’t enough there is also this from Catholic Charities or the current articles from The Sun Journal. $1 will give you a 1 day subscription if the headlines aren’t enough.

  31. LY–You can fill a kitchen mold with shite but you can’t pass it off as chocolate blancmange.

    Your links are to assorted leftist bullshiters. Brown Uni–who I wouldn’t trust to tell the time of day without lying for cultural Marxism. A Leftist newsrag that paints somalis as the new Amish. A report from a pro-migrant organisation. A gutless Mayor who swallows and turns his arse on his previous statements when left-scum pressurise him. A report from a “Catholic” charity written by two well-known catholic names–Osman and Ahmed.

    In short you link to leftist propaganda and proclaim your case proven.

    And screw any other voices who–in lovely Liberal Maine –say the same things that lots of other people across the West say–after a period of living cheek-by-jowl with these dear lovely guests. That they are an imported crime spree.

    Oh no–it must all be lies from KKK imports –as the local trashrag tried to peddle.

  32. And yet you have no problems using the KKK fascist’s sites to back up your story.

    I notice you don’t even respond to my offer to go and get a first hand account. I am guessing no matter how much time I were to spend in Lewiston with a camera you wouldn’t believe it either.

    What if we were to go together? I’ll spend a could days gathering video while you hide your hotel room, we’d need separate rooms as I’m more scared of you than these Muslims, to show that it’s safe. If something happens to me then your point is proven with actual evidence. If, as is much more likely, nothing bad happens would you even be able to break out of your master race mentality long enough to walk down Lisbon St in broad daylight?

  33. Interesting that all leftist elements–even some of the UK ones on this blog– go to “you are a white supreme-KKK” once their crap arguments go down the pan.

    You are also a leftist freeloader LY if you think I would pay so much as one penny to test your leftist crapola. You are the one pushing imported loveliness–you pay the money.

    I am not happy about sharing the planet (never mind a hotel-at my expense so the fool thinks) with an individual who– at best– is a dupe and a moron. If not an active supporter of evil socialist bullshit and the destruction of his own kith and kin.

    Nor am I afraid of Somalis or any others. If violence is their bag we can oblige them. What I fear is leftist scum actively working to put our society in its grave–as if they would escape that somehow themselves. Leftist scum who infest our society like maggots in rotten socialist cheese.

  34. I didn’t start by saying “you are a white supreme-KKK”? You made that perfectly clear with your own words.

    I pointed out that you have no problem defending racist sources while any that disagree with your point are “assorted leftist bullshiters.” The truth is unless I verify what either side claims with my own eyes I have to look for the flaws in the theories to disprove the claims. The “white supreme-KKK” arguments you are promoting have obvious problems, mainly the lack of any evidence. I simply have not found any evidence that refutes the 11 sources I have posted. The one link that could help your case was about Portland and not Lewiston so it is a stretch to even use it.

    “Nor am I afraid of Somalis.” I beg to differ. From your words I get the impression that you are terrified of anyone that doesn’t look and think like you. You challenged me to give up my current life to prove you wrong. Why should I carry the financial cost to fight your bigotry? Mr Ecks you are now on my list of people that are far more dangerous to me than any Muslim. I am done because it is simply not possible to fix stupid no matter how much money you throw at the problem.

  35. LY

    The 9,000 Somalis appear to be spread between Auburn and Lewiston, with a combined population of 60,000, so closer to 15%. The employment record appears spotty – the number ever employed in the Maine State planning office was 50%. Allow for the workforce participation rate of 65% or so and that suggests that unemployment for this population is running around 25%, which sounds about right.

    Is crime higher? Difficult to say – it may be down, but to work this out, one would need to see what would have happened otherwise. Which would mean creating a base line comparison by matching Lewiston and Auburn to similar cities in the US or in Maine. Jury is out – I’d guess crime is flat.

    Are the Somalis doing bad things? Probably not. Are they useful members of society? Probably not – at least as far as employment and costs are concerned – an extra burden on the locals. Will their children contribute? Possibly.

    Not the horror story painted by some, but not exactly the great boon described by the cheerleaders.

  36. ” I simply have not found any evidence that refutes the 11 sources I have posted. ”

    Cos you only accept evidence that boosts your leftist cause. Usually from leftists. Fed-fuck figures are evidence of nothing except deceit on the part of the info-gatherers. As with the bogus unemployment crap the Feds put out. Any testimony to the contrary of your bullshit you label as “fascist/KKK” . Including the site with such obvious KKK recruit material as “David Horowitz” a former member of the New Left.

    Hell–have you no respect for your Alma Marter?

    One of the truths observed across all of Europe for example is that once state-sponsored “replace-wicked-whitey “migrants arrive then any crimes they do short of murder won’t be counted–or even looked at by local rozzers. Unless it is something so egregious that it can’t be ignored. And even then TPTB will try to ignore it. As they even tried to ignore the events of New Years Day –but didn’t get away with it. The same will be true of the good ‘ol US of A. Despite your la-la land fantasies.

  37. ken the 9000 very well may be split. I didn’t bother posting the link that came from as there were too many unicorn farts in it. The 1 in 5 bantu number seems far too low after looking at other information as well.

    The most recent unemployment figure I saw was 4.7% in 2015 from the Boston Globe piece. There were no detailed figures so this very well may be a unicorn fart as well. If you find more detailed figures it would greatly add to the discussion.

    The crime statistics I used gave a comparison to the national average. I did glance at a couple other cities in Maine and per capita numbers were not much different. It is possible that the Islamic view on drugs and alcohol are very important here. As roughly 50% of the US prison population is due to drug offenses lower usage rates should tend to skew the overall crime statistic down. I did not find any useful breakdown by ethnic group so more information is needed.

    Without traveling 700 miles (1126km) to an area I have no other business in I am forced to use the information provided by others. After throwing out articles from extremists on either side that don’t add useful data it appears that the Somalis are like any other immigrant group. For now the numbers look promising but until we see what happens with the children that didn’t suffer through the civil war and refugee camps, including those in US ghettos, have fully grown up. As the oldest of these children are 15 now it is still to early to tell the full story.

  38. ” After throwing out articles from extremists on either side that don’t add useful data it appears that the Somalis are like any other immigrant group.”

    You threw out only the evidence on one side. The links you put up were to migrant supporters and largely worthless govt stats. A great deal of what goes on wont even reach the stats or the papers because –for example– crime figs are a function of what the coppers and their bosses are told to record. And what and how leftist-university trained media chose to report. It is easy enough to boost or drop crime figures or try to suppress outside knowledge of a milieu of crime by such means, To and for the aid and convenience of leftist scum.

  39. LY

    Actually the somalis are not like “any other” immigrant group. They come overwhelmingly from poor pastoralist backgrounds with high illiteracy etc. Most migrant groups – especially the legal ones – tend to come from the better educated parts of their societies. Are they an improvement on the local underclass? Probably. Are they net contributors? No. Might their children do better? Possibly.

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